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Neil Gaiman's Marvel 1602

direstraits

direstraits

Well-Known Member
This is something that Gaiman hasn't done in a while, which are superhero stories. And this one promised to be oh so good.

Gaiman reimagines a big group of stalwart Marvel characters and places them in 17th Century England, when Queen Elizabeth I ruled England, and the subsequent monarch James of Scotland took over. The story is a mixture of fiction with real historical events (Queen E, James, Virginia Dare, who was the first person born in the English colony in America).

What's amazing about this story is he manages to fit in Fantastic Four, Daredevil, Spider-man, X-Men, the Watcher, Magneto, Nick Fury, Dr Strange, Dr Doom, Captain America, Hulk, Thor and a few other Avengers members into a single continuum, without appearing too convoluted. Only just, though.

Andy Kubert does competent pencils, and the colours are brilliant.

The story is huge and satisfying, but I have to say the main selling point for this project is Gaiman's take on Marvel's superheroes more than anything else. It's not as good as his other works where he controls every element of the story, unlike this one where each Marvel character is a gigantic franchise that cannot bear huge changes.

But that said, Gaiman belongs to those select group of people and things: George RR Martin, Guy Gavriel Kay, pizza and sex: Even when it's not great, it's still pretty good.

ds
 
It was originally a mini-series of 8 (or so) issues. If just looking to read it, maybe the individual issues can be found for cheaper than the “novel” version.
I’m not a fan of Gaiman, but no matter who the writer would have been, it just seemed a silly idea.
In recent years Marvel has created a line of comics called “Ultimate”. (Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate X-men, etc) and it’s just a retelling of the older stores with _some_ slight, more modern (many of these characters were created in the 1960s) updates. Hardly a creative workout. But it was and remains successful (so much so that DC is now following suit).
To me this was Simply Ultimate Marvel 17th Century.

Apparently someone else will continue the series.

Gaiman still has a contract for 1 more Marvel project, rumour has it will also be super hero related.
 
I did read that 1902 will be continued. I myself think the 1902 story has been told and ended satisfactorily...

I suppose you could look at it they way you described, but then whenever Marvel contracts celebrity writers to take familiar characters in new territory, it can be considered as an Ultimates title, simply because of what the Ultimates line implies - fresh take on established characters.

ds
 
direstraits said:
I did read that 1902 will be continued.
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I think it’s Paul Jenkins who will do it.

I myself think the 1902 story has been told and ended satisfactorily...
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Yeah, I’d say that. I was hoping for a bit more. And that’s _not_ with all the pressure in the hype of Gaiman coming to Marvel, which was huge, huge news for several years.

I suppose you could look at it they way you described, but then
whenever Marvel contracts celebrity writers to take familiar characters in new territory, it can be considered as an Ultimates title, simply because of what the Ultimates line implies - fresh take on established
characters.
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Sorry, I should have been more clear. The Ultimate line simply started from scratch. So it was modern-day telling of the origins and all. While not modern-day, the Gaiman book also did this.

Maybe it would have had more impact if it happened before the Ultimate craze (still ongoing).

As for some of the big names coming into comics many, like a Mark Waid (of Buffy fame) go onto the ‘regular’ X-Men title, so has to deal with *already* established (over decades, no less) origins and continuity.
It would be a little cheap for every writer to just re-tell what has already been told in their own way. It’s been done (John Byrne with Superman) and will continue to be done, I’m sure. Once these guys get clout they can do almost anything. JMS’ run on the ‘regular’ Spider-Man titles proves this.

What I did like was some of the covers to the individual issues; I’m not sure if those are lost on the trade paperback format or if they reprint them. Pretty interesting. Almost wood-cut’ish.

j
 
jay said:
Sorry, I should have been more clear. The Ultimate line simply started from scratch. So it was modern-day telling of the origins and all. While not modern-day, the Gaiman book also did this.
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Uhm, you were clear, and I understood you. By fresh take I meant everything anew, which is pretty much what you said. I have read both Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men (they were trades), and loved the writing, which I thought was very sharp and filled with pop culture references. Though I did think that all the pop culture references immediately puts an expiry date on the work...


jay said:
Maybe it would have had more impact if it happened before the Ultimate craze (still ongoing).
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Probably right. But then DC had Elseworlds titles for many many years and they don't seem to generate the sort of excitement Ultimates did. I believe the quality of the writing has a lot to do with this.

Re Marvel 1602 covers - they did reprint some of the covers, but not all, if I remember rightly. I preferred the penciling. I liked Andy Kubert's pencils (I'd never thought I'd say that for Kubert), which I thought was miles better than the ones he used to do.

ds
 
direstraits said:
Uhm, you were clear, and I understood you. By fresh take I meant everything anew, which is pretty much what you said.
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ok, no biggie. I only reiterated as you mentioned anyone coming onto a book could then be labeled fresh take.
Maybe fresh, but still dealing with the established continuity is just what I meant.

I have read both Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men (they were trades), and loved the writing, which I thought was very sharp and filled with pop culture references. Though I did think that all the pop culture references immediately puts an expiry date on the work...
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Don’t get me wrong, I’m not hating them, but I just don’t see them as anything terribly special. Taking what is established and re-telling it with just a mere handful of changes isn’t really all that impressive.
I think Ult Spider-Man is really juvenile. Which is fine if it’s aimed at a young audience, but when I see older people “loving” it…well, see any thread where I rip into Hairy Potter. That said, Bendis *is* an excellent writer (Daredevil (non-Ultimate), Alias and a few others) when right books he doesn’t feel the need to ad “like” into every conversation.
Yes, Millar has taken a pretty interesting angle on the government-created/hired hero and also some of the Ult X-Men arcs have been pretty good.

Probably right. But then DC had Elseworlds titles for many many years and they don't seem to generate the sort of excitement Ultimates did. I believe the quality of the writing has a lot to do with this.
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Well, nothing DC has ever done has ever really compared to Marvel, over the long term, and few things in all of comics has really opened things up like the Ultimate line.
DC even hired Stan Lee to give his take on the Big Guns of the Universe and that fell very flat on its face. (“Imagine if Stan Lee Created…” I believe they were called).

Re Marvel 1602 covers - they did reprint some of the covers, but not all, if I remember rightly. I preferred the penciling. I liked Andy Kubert's pencils (I'd never thought I'd say that for Kubert), which I thought was miles better than the ones he used to do.
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I’m not a fan of any of the Kuberts and I dislike Isonove’s (?) “liquid painting”. Just feels cold to me. I’d be curious to see some more work from the cover chap, but can definitely live without a Kubert or two every month (I believe Andy (or maybe it’s his brother) is on Ultimate Fantastic Four now if you’re interested)
j
 
jay, thanks for responding.

I too, thought Ult Spiderman was a little too young, and thought I'd give it a miss.

I've given up comics very long ago, and now only pick up trades that interest me. Always on the lookout for interesting stuff, and I'm always open for suggestions. I don't think I'll pick up any more Ultimates now that I've sampled them. I might continue and finish collecting The Invisibles, though...

You like Bendis, huh? I have read the early Marvel Knight run of Daredevil written by Bendis... Did you pick up his Powers? I've read the first one, and wasn't too impressed.

ds
 
direstraits said:
I might continue and finish collecting The Invisibles, though...
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I haven’t tried that one. Vertigo, yes?
I was liking Milligan’s “The Human Target” (not hot on the art though), but that ended. “100 Bullets” is pretty good.

I really don’t read much of them nowadays, and when I do it’s kind of against my better judgment. Maybe a ‘guilty pleasure’ of hating some of the stuff (apparently in the Ultimate FF the two universes will meet, which is stupid and too DC-like) on top of a desire that years and years ago I tried to pursue illustration as a career.

You like Bendis, huh? I have read the early Marvel Knight run of Daredevil written by Bendis... Did you pick up his Powers? I've read the first one, and wasn't too impressed.
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I may have over-sold it as I usually get verbally hammered when I slag Ult Spider-Man. Although I do like what he’s doing with Daredevil. His run ends in a month or so.
Powers I tried when then switch to the new Marvel imprint. And I agree, I’m not too wowed. It’s a bit too much. His new “House of M” (this summer’s ‘big mini-series’) I see is just yet another alternate universe thing, which is tiresome and partially what makes me dislike so many DC titles.
So, Daredevil and Alias I like/d. Now to ‘sell out’ and get more readers, as Alias was on the “marvel max” (basically Marvel’s Vertigo), for adults, he re-started it as The Pulse and is even using Bagley (of Ult Spider-Man – whom I cant stand), so basically it’s just Ultimate Alias now.
Bendis’ Avengers run is ok, but all in all I think the guy just has too much power now. He *is* Marvel, pretty much. Years ago a solid writer would write one title for years on end. Now one seems to not be a writer if one is not juggling 5 different titles. I think eventually this system will capsize the market.

Ultimate stuff has hi-jacked poor Gaiman’s thread but I can tell you, ds, that the Kubert boys have just signed a 3-year deal with DC. Now word on what their first projects will be though.
j
 
Sounds dumb, but maybe some are interested

Back on-topic:
From Wizard 165, July 2005-08-03
“1602: New World
Greg Pak continues Neil Gaiman’s Old World tale
-For Marvel’s oldest heroes, new creators mean new adventures on a new continent, when writer Greg Pak (X-Men: Phoenix-Endsong) and artist Greg Tocchini (Thor: Son of Asgard) take on 1602: New World.
The five-issue miniseries, following up the Neil Gaiman and Andy Kubert smash hit, takes the story from Europe to the American colonies, “a place of enormous diversity,” Pak says; “Native Americans, English colonists, Spanish conquistadors, escaped African slaves, and of course, Witchbreed” –mutants. “How do all those different people come together into a thing we call America?”
While tight-lipped about what roles the first mini’s heroes will play, Pak does promise plenty of new faces.
“We’ll absolutely introduce some key Marvel heroes,” Pak says, “and I think fans will get a big kick out of who’ll show up and how we’re using them.”
Article written by Dylan Brucie.
 
Marvel: 1602 wins Quills Award

I read 1602 back in May. I really enjoyed it. Although I'm not very well read in the Marvel Universe, I found it easy to follow (also, luckily my boyfriend was able to provide answers to some questions I had on certain characters).

Anyway, Neil posted about this graphic novel yesterday on his site.

Neil Gaiman said:
...and as I was typing that the phone rang, and my agent Merrilee told me that Marvel:1602 won the Quills Award for best Graphic Novel.
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I'm about halfway thru this one and I'm enjoying it immensely. So far they've got 2 of my fave Marvel characters in it, Daredevil and Dr. Strange. Who's the 2 mutants with Magneto, er, I mean the Grand Inquisitor?
 
Who's with Magneto? Are you sure you don't want to take a guess? Or you could just wait until you finish it. Maybe you'll figure it out ;)
His kids. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver
 
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