The word "****" on a t-shirt - freedom of speech?

I doubt the f-word on t-shirts is what teaches kids to say it. That habit comes from hearing adults they look up to using it - or older siblings, not a t-shirt. Kids are imitators, they imitate the behaviour of people they admire, so if they like a person with the f-word on their tee, they'd probably want the tee rather than start saying the word.

It's not that society has to tolerate more and more these days, it's that these days society as a whole is a lot less tolerant than it used to be.

I think back to my childhood and I remember tv programs about the human body, made for children, with nakedness and info that would never ever be allowed in children's programmes nowadays, and what do we get out of it? we get a current generation of children who have no clue about how the human body actually works and what 'to ****' really implicates, hence the ease with which they use the word.

I generally think we shelter children far more than is necessary. But that may just be me.

I am with you, Jemima. **** is only a harmless (and amusing, under certain circumstances) word: tuck, duck, luck, puck ... (I could go on, but you get the general idea.)

The words that offend me are disparaging and offensive terms which are used to refer to persons of any race, religion, gender, sexual preference or skin color.

Edit

By the way: P. G. Wodehouse sometimes used the word "nigger" in his stories. That one does hurt my ears.

StillILearn said:

[/I].)

The words that offend me are disparaging and offensive terms which are used to refer to persons of any race, religion, gender, sexual preference or skin color.

Edit

By the way: P. G. Wodehouse sometimes used the word "nigger" in his stories. That one does hurt my ears.

Click to expand...

I agree with you Still. Although I hate that word too, I think in P.G.Wodehouse's time it was a more accepted term. My grandmother used to refer to the colour 'nigger-brown' which makes me cringe now, but probably wouldn't have caused a flicker back then. You do find quite a few racist overtones in many well-known books though, it's interesting to see authors attitudes coming through.

My father casually used racist expressions, although he had friends of every race and religion. Apparently this was once done in an almost innocent way; ignorance in its purest form, I guess.

He used the phrase "jew them down" and called Brazil nuts "nigger toes". I guess we should be grateful that things have changed at least this much in the last fifty years.

I'd condone a hundred and fifty t-shirt fucks before I'd allow one racist/sexist epithet or cliche to pass unchallenged.

StillILearn said:

... (I could go on, but you get the general idea.)

Click to expand...

Oi! I said I've not finished with it yet!

StillILearn said:

I'd condone a hundred and fifty t-shirt fucks...

Click to expand...

Is it late and am I really tired, or is anyone else giggling like a school girl at that? Interesting noun... very intriguing...

Kookamoor said:

Is it late and am I really tired, or is anyone else giggling like a school girl at that? Interesting noun... very intriguing...

Click to expand...

I had a coupla glasses of wine at dinner -- what can I say? It does tend to make one wonder to what Still can possibly have been referring

Oi! I said I've not finished with it yet!

Click to expand...

A clearer case of plagiarism I've never seen, but it is the most wonderful signature line ever!

Still, reading Jeeves: Apparently, back in the thirties (in England anyway), it was considered the pinnacle of jollity to blacken one's face with burnt cork and frighten the scullery maids.

On the original subject of this thread: of course the airline has the right to turn the woman away. All businesses, or private individuals for that matter, have the right to refuse to serve people or have them on their premises for any reason - or irrational prejudice - they like. "The management reserves the right to refuse admission" and all that.

On the subject of saying **** generally, I used to swear all the time, but when I started going out with my girlfriend last year I deliberately held back so as not to put her off! And it's kind of stuck so I don't do it anywhere near as much now.

Stephen Fry wrote brilliantly about the use of the word ****, which he said should be reappropriated as the only verb meaning 'to have sexual intercourse' with - all other euphemisms etc banned. Rather on the lines of Jemima Aslana's comment earlier. I couldn't find Fry's piece online anywhere, but it's in his collection of journalism, Paperweight.

Poppy1 is right that nigger was a common term in the early part of the 20th century and often used without any racist intent. So I think it's pointless to protest about the use of it in novels of the time when, frankly, if we'd been around then, most of us would have used it too. Interestingly, while Agatha Christie's novel Ten Little Niggers has been renamed (to Ten Little Indians or And Then There Were None, depending on where you are), Joseph Conrad's novel The Nigger of the 'Narcissus' has not. I wonder why?

Ha.
Everybody can wear what one wishes. Everybody can say what one wishes. Etc, etc.
But he/she must understand that other people also have rights, and there are certain situations when "free speach" or "free behavior" could be harmful.
I.e. there are some responsibilities a mature person takes on, otherwise one cannot be cosidered a mature person.

If you want to pay Cajunamama a visit wearing a T-shirt with a penis on it - you must be aware that would possibly be the last visit you will be able of.

Sergo said:

If you want to pay Cajunamama a visit wearing a T-shirt with a penis on it - you must be aware that would possibly be the last visit you will be able of.

Click to expand...

I thought you were going to finish that up with some other penalty
But I think the word goes back a long, long way in English, because of close cognates involving the letters "f" and "k" that are seen in other Scandinavian languages and may be precursurs to our good ol' Anglo-Saxon.

And while exhibiting my complete knowledge, I once noticed a book with that single word as the title, on the shelf among the dictionaries at a famous bookstore, being everything one could want to know about the word -- history, synonyms, variant spellings, the works -- and being really quite fat. The book was gray and dogeared from extensive browsing but was still on the shelf (the last I saw. Honest!). Nobody dared I guess.

Anonymous

Oh, I have thought about ending for quite long: a whole minute or two.
This one seemed to appear the easiest one.

You English speakers are lucky: this famous f..k word of yours is beautifully shaped. Our Russian word for the same function is very ugly, so nobody... hm... I think nobody would have liked to have a t-shirt with that word printed on it. Some say the word came into Russian from old Tartar language, so it looks & sounds alien to our eye & ear...

Sergo said:

Oh, I have thought about ending for quite long: a whole minute or two.
This one seemed to appear the easiest one.

You English speakers are lucky: this famous f..k word of yours is beautifully shaped. Our Russian word for the same function is very ugly, so nobody... hm... I think nobody would have liked to have a t-shirt with that word printed on it. Some say the word came into Russian from old Tartar language, so it looks & sounds alien to our eye & ear...

Click to expand...

What on earth is it?

Yebat' (Ебать)
Yebat'sya (Ебаться)
Wow... That's the first time in my life that I've written those...

Sergo,
Love that second one!
From what little I know of your language's grammar!
Peder

Sergo said:

Yebat' (Ебать)
Yebat'sya (Ебаться)
Wow... That's the first time in my life that I've written those...

Click to expand...

I'm laughing! There was completely zero shock effect here! Those words could be a pleasant greeting or even a gentle blessing to my American eyes. They could easily be the equivalent of namaste' or something like that.

Yebat'sya, my friend. Yebat'sya to everyone here.

Ms.'s signature line looks way more suspicious to me!

shoo-bop-shoo-bop my baby

Click to expand...

They didn't tell her she couldn't wear the shirt they just told her that she couldn't wear it on their plane. I believe in freedom of speech but if it's their plane then I guess they can have rules about it. I wouldn't let one of my employees wear a shirt like that at work, but on the other hand if they wanted to wear that same shirt out of the hospital I'd have no problem.

Peder said:

Sergo,
Love that second one!
From what little I know of your language's grammar!
Peder

Click to expand...

Thanks. It is very pleasant that so many people are interested in our grammar - one of the hardest, according to what I has been told.

StillILearn said:

I'm laughing! There was completely zero shock effect here! Those words could be a pleasant greeting or even a gentle blessing to my American eyes. They could easily be the equivalent of namaste' or something like that.

Yebat'sya, my friend. Yebat'sya to everyone here.

Ms.'s signature line looks way more suspicious to me!

Click to expand...

Yep - of course it is about people and what they assign to specific words. For me those words are not pleasant - I believe I've never used them before my parents, and really I do not like the feeling the use of them gives to me.
****, on the other hand, is a perfectly nice word. Why not print it on a T-shirt, or on a national coat of arms?

Sergo said:

Yep - of course it is about people and what they assign to specific words. For me those words are not pleasant - I believe I've never used them before my parents, and really I do not like the feeling the use of them gives to me.
****, on the other hand, is a perfectly nice word. Why not print it on a T-shirt, or on a national coat of arms?

Click to expand...

I doff my hat to you Sergo.

In the eyes of the beholder.

StillILearn said:

Ms.'s signature line looks way more suspicious to me!

Click to expand...

While Motown was undoubtedly a sexually charged era of music I assure you my sig is perfectly Innocent.