The Tao of Earthsea

...is the title of the essay in litterature I´m working on now and until the 10´th of January next year. That´s why I asked about dragons in literature before. Thank You for all the help on that one, by the way.

Now I wonder if you ever in reading Le Guin noticed taoism? As a enthusiastic student of taoism - I would´n call myself a taoist, though - I of course see it. But to others? Is there a feeling of something alien in her reasoning?

(I use the spelling of taoism with a "t" not a "d" siply because it is more well known in the west and as for any faults in my english I just want to point out that I´m swedish)

I hadn't realized that Tao was spelt in any other way aside from a 'T'.

Interested in your theories... what makes you link taoism with Le Guin?

ds

First of all, Le Guin herself. She claims to have been a taoist since childhood. She has written a new interpretion of Tao Te Ching, the book which is the core document of taoism everywhere(?)
"The Telling" Le Guin claims is really about how taoism was persecuted in China during the cultural revolution.

Also I have read critics who point out taoistic thought in her sci-fi, and also said that Earthsea is taoistic. At Dao House you can see that she is in the literature list and there is links to articles where it is stated that she is a taoist and where in her work taoism can be found.

I will try to translate to english and publish my essay at internet when it is finished. Maybe at Earthsea

Thank you for taking an interest. And yes, Daoism is the correct spelling according to the chinese system of translating from chinese characters called PINYIN. Most taoists in the west are oblivious to this.

Okay, it's just that I'm Chinese and I didn't know it was Daoist.

Cheers!

ds

Even book-a-minute includes taoism in its synopsis of the earthsea books

The farthest shore

Tehanu

I see. Is it like with the fish - they don´t notice the water they live in. And you are Chinese, so you don´t notice the "Chineseness" of Earthsea? But you like it, right?

Yobmod - That´s so funny! I love it.

Cosmos_Cat said:

And you are Chinese, so you don´t notice the "Chineseness" of Earthsea?

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I'm intrigued by your statement. Would you please explaine! Why do you mean when you say the "Chineseness" of Earthsea?

Ah, taoism is supposed to be a Chinese philosophy/religion. Or so I use to belive. But then I read JJ Clarke´s "The Tao of the West-Western transformation of Taoist thought" and learned that it´s not, exactly. So the philosofic content of Le Guins books are kinda Taoistic=Chinese...but really in more of a counter-culture, 60´s way. It gets complicated.

About the fish, it was just something Zhuangzi said about people and taoism. That they don´t notice Tao cuz they live in Tao all of the time. They are so used to it.

Actually, what I meant was I didn't know it was 'Daoism', spelt with a D. All literature that I've encountered spells it with a T.

The practise of Taoism is actually quite ingrained into our society that I don't really know where Taoism begins and ends in our culture. I don't know when doing something is Taoism or actually Chinese culture. I'm not a Taoist, and I don't study it, so I didn't really pick up on the similarities in Earthsea.

Thinking about it now, I still don't see the Tao in Earthsea. Ged and gang didn't really go around with joss sticks, they don't pray or offer offerings to ancestors and then there's a lack of deities in the stories. I suppose you may include the worship of the Old Ones, but that's just from one culture out of many, and that didn't immediately strike me as Taoism either.

But if we're talking about the essential philosophy, then you probably know more than I do. I'm as curious as Wabbit as to the Chineseness of Earthsea.

ds

I forgot to mention, I love Earthsea. I love it to bits. I've read every Earthsea book, and I want to watch that series from SciFi Channel coming up very badly. Except I don't know if it will be showing here or not. There was a teaser with the Earthsea logo flashing on the TV the other day, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.



ds

direstraits said:

The practise of Taoism is actually quite ingrained into our society that I don't really know where Taoism begins and ends in our culture. I don't know when doing something is Taoism or actually Chinese culture. I'm not a Taoist, and I don't study it, so I didn't really pick up on the similarities in Earthsea.

Thinking about it now, I still don't see the Tao in Earthsea. Ged and gang didn't really go around with joss sticks, they don't pray or offer offerings to ancestors and then there's a lack of deities in the stories.
But if we're talking about the essential philosophy, then you probably know more than I do. I'm as curious as Wabbit as to the Chineseness of Earthsea.

ds

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Flattering will get you far, besides I´m so tired of working on my essay for the moment so I´d rather discuss it.

Ok, say that I am a daoist after all. Have been for 15 years or so. A western daoist. In the spring of 1999 I made a pilgrimage to Baiyin Guan in Bejing. Why are you in China? People asked. "Cuz I´m a daoist" I would reply, the first few times. "Ah, which of the 800 schools?" "Er...who?What?" I, stupid westerner would say, confused. I use to think there was only one teaching, and two important texts- Laozi and Zhuangzi.
We western daoists make many misimprentations and mistakes. So much so, that the daoism in west has become a whole new teaching or actually, several new teachings. And we tend to include any old chinese thing into what we call daoism. We can´t seperate daoism from whats just chinese culture, eighter...

Anyway, some things chinese or daoist about Earthsea:
1) Laozi was called a dragon by Confuzius. To turn into a dragon in Earthsea is a good thing, not like in christian tradition-to become the devil´s.
2) Le Guin is obsessed about uniting the opposing halfs of broken things, to a well balanced Tai Chi. Ged and Tenar, the two halves of Erreth-Akbehs ring, the broken Earthseaworld itself in the latest book. Think about the tombs of Atuan, they are devoid of all things yang. yin by itself is unalanced and bad, it must be corrected.
3) Le Guin often uses the same wording in Earthsea as in her own interpretation of Tao Te Ching "A book about the way and the power of the way". It´s really intresting...
4) Ogion and Ged represent the western idea and Le Guins changing ideas about how a daoist sage is.
5) There is an island called "Way" in Earthsea. Orm Irian is from there and also a book about alchemy (waidan) which makes a wizard drink quicksilver.

...Well, there will be more examples when I´m through... Are you impressed yet?

Will be if you can give me 20 more bullet points.

Ah dragons, yes. Chinese do like dragons.

Cosmos_Cat said:

And you are Chinese, so you don´t notice the "Chineseness" of Earthsea?

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The points you brought up do indeed seem to tie very closely to the philosophy, but didn't immediately make me think of Earthsea as having a sense of Chineseness. By that I don't mean that Earthsea doesn't have Chineseness at all. I'm merely saying *I* personally didn't see it.

It's clear you're more scholarly than I will ever be in all things Daoist (since you insisteD ). It was interesting to note the Dao in Earthsea. Thanks.

ds

p.s. I was kidding about the 20 bullet points. I actually want 25.

Well, my position is that if you want to see something and you look for something you will find it

I mean, you can pick any movie and book and say what you are saying. Let's just pick on Lord Of the Rings. Ok, we have evil that Suraman who was once good and has turned to evil. As with yin yang each opposite contains the seed of the other. Also, when he becomes evil the balance of life becomes disrupted and so war and chaos are the result of the unbalance. Again, Tao. A band of of different unharmonious peoples come together and together even though different are in balance. Again, tao.

You can read into just about anything you want.

I don't really see it either but then I'm not Chinese ( although I eat enough of the food ) and I only know a little about Tao.

so you're saying there's some tao/zen to the friday the 13th films?

OK so this was the only thread I could find on the Earthsea books (well - the only one in the Sci-fi/Fantasy section) so I figured may as well use it instead of starting up another one.
Let's just put the Tao bit to the side for now - unless DS you want to ruminate further on the Taoist symbolism in the books .

The Wizard of EarthSea - I was quickly drawn in because it read like a fairytale/folkstory. At first this was great, but then it started to bug me a little because like a fairytale we were just told what was happening, there was very little of 'showing'. I so badly wanted to know what he was taught in the Immanant Grove, but we weren't told or shown .
Then when Ged is being hunted by & is hunting the Shadow, I was annoyed with all the pitstops he was making at the various Islands - it was like come on already - get on with the story, stop eating everyones food.

When I finished, I realised;
a) It is a folk story - we are repeatedly told that Ged becomes a great man, and this book was just recounting his early days - giving us information that has been taken from various sources and records.
b) All those Island pitstops that I was annoyed with actually helped me to get a clear picture of the Earthsea world - it's layout, people etc.

I read it in about four hours, so obviously I enjoyed it - although at times I did find the writing a little awkward to get my head around - I've started the second book and haven't had the same problem with the writing though - and so far it seems that my show/tell gripe won't hold because
I'm finding it really interesting - loving the whole Eaten One/Labyrinth story. I'm looking forward to getting some perspective and some deeper understanding of Ged. Oh & I did like Vetch (although for some reason I keep reading it as Retch) and hope he shows up some more.

So far, overall I'd have to say Thank you DS.

Gem... methinks this will probably be better if your post is the beginning of a new thread. Lemme get a moderator's attention [waves like a lunatic].

Hehe - I actually reread A Wizard of Earthsea a couple of weeks back, and it was still magic to me. This time I paid attention to the places where their skin colour was mentioned, and if you blinked, you missed it.

Gem said:

I so badly wanted to know what he was taught in the Immanant Grove, but we weren't told or shown .

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You know, I felt the same way. Maybe the Grove is the mysterious black box - teaching the readers that not everything can be explained in the natural order of things. Either that or Le Guin is simply lazy.

Then when Ged is being hunted by & is hunting the Shadow, I was annoyed with all the pitstops he was making at the various Islands - it was like come on already - get on with the story, stop eating everyones food.

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Yeah, but you must be considerate also. He's travelling in a small boat, and must replenish his supplies. If you study the map, you'll see they are travelling to the edge of the known world. Very dangerous.

I read it in about four hours,

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I've started the second book and haven't had the same problem with the writing though - and so far it seems that my show/tell gripe won't hold because I'm finding it really interesting - loving the whole Eaten One/Labyrinth story.

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Personally, Tombs of Atuan was a disappointment for me because of the change in perspective. I wanted Ged, not Tenar!

The wonder of A Wizard of Earthsea for me was the little things. The contrast between the simple quiet of Ogion's teachings and the competition in Roke, the little otak, Vetch's steadfastness, and a delightful character in Yarrow, the finality of the showdown in the end. And "wear a dragon for a bracelet" makes me laugh.

So far, overall I'd have to say Thank you DS.

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You're welcome. Now about this author Guy Gavriel Kay...

ds

How funny that there should be a thread like this, because I wrote my master's thesis in english on taoism and utopia in Le Guin's The Dispossessed. Anyone read that?

Yes, I read the Dispossessed. Frankly, I don't remember much of it - didn't really leave too much of an impression on me. I vaguely remember some chick coming on to the main character, but he was not falling for her. About how he found out that the grass isn't all that green on the other side of the fence (as it were) after all.

Should I go and read it again? The next Le Guin I'll probably read is Left Hand of Darkness...

ds