Let's Smash The Literary World Into Bits With A Wrecking Ball! It'll Be Fun!

The ryhme is dead in poetry, and has been for some time

The best famous Poets of the 20th century are Octavio Paz and Anne Sexton. I don't care what your university professors told you.

Oh, I wanted to add that too many books in the bookstore are so much alike. If you pick up a book of prestigious literary fiction by a respected author and you compare it to one of Louis L’amour’s books there often doesn't seem to be much difference in the style of writing - it's like the publishing conglomerates are selling us the same kind of writing under different packaging.

Is the literary world a sham? Many people in the literary world only seem to care about money and prestige. Exciting innovative literature is the last thing on the minds of many poweful people in the literary world.

I was sitting in a coffee shop recently when I heard one writer say to another writer, “The major publishing conglomerates are nothing but whorehouses, and the literary agents are pimps – they’re literary pimps – and many authors are nothing but whores!”

“What a hypocrite you are!” exclaimed the other writer, “You have a literary pimp - and one of your books was published by one of the six whorehouses!”

“I know! I’m a whore!” responded the first writer.

I laughed (quietly).

Cheers!

Wolf Larsen

WolfLarsen said:

Exciting innovative literature is the last thing on the minds of many poweful people in the literary world.

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This may very well be true, but it doesnt make your writings any better. Refusing to publish you must be one of their good ideas.

And judging by your writing, Wolfie, what the hell would you know about exciting and innovative literature? If I've misrepresented you in the extracts I've chosen, no doubt you can post something of yours that is incontrovertibly great (you know, the way Paz and Sexton are incontrovertibly the greatest famous poets of the 20th century? Who's the greatest non-famous poet by the way? Not you by any chance? No, you're more infamous...).

Yes - indeed his stuff has been published - and for the token sum of $399 you could have yours published by the publishing powerhouse that is Xlibris Corporation:

http://www2.xlibris.com/

$399 - Ouch that's about 200 hours of hard manual labour in Alaska.

WolfLarsen said:

Oh, I wanted to add that too many books in the bookstore are so much alike.

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I think that perhaps if you didnt try so hard to be different but concentrated on writing something that was actually good people would not be so ready to laugh at you. There is no point in beeing different just to be different. It has to add something to the story or whatever you are writing.

At the moment you just sound like someone that has been rejected by publishers too many times yet refuse to understand why.

The same thread on another forum.

Stewart said:

The same thread on another forum.

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And here I thought we were his first

From Stewart's link:

"...if you leave my balls where they are
I won't squish you with my car."

LOLLYLOL

Hello Everybody

I guess there are no arguments to defend the literary world as it is - all some of the people above know how to do is to make personal insults. I just figure that people like that are frustrated with their lives or ignorant or something like that. They live in a box and are narrow-minded. If they were writing something worthwhile they wouldn't have time for personal insults - but I guess since they are traditionalists they have nothing new to contribute to literature.

In the old days if you wrote a wildly creative novel it would rarely if ever find its way into the bookstore. This is still true today.

Academia, with its emphasis on the classics and excellence in tradition, is usually hostile to innovation in the literary world.

The publishing conglomerates, with their single-minded pursuit of profit are only concerned about money. And they certainly aren't going to risk money by publishing innovative literature.

My guess is that the greatest and most innovative literary works of mankind ended up in the garbage. My guess is that the celebrated classics of "excellent literature" that are part of the canon are NOT the greatest works ever written. Why did the greatest works of literature probably end up in the garbage? For the same reason that Vincent Van Gogh's paintings would have ended up in the garbage if he didn't have an appreciative brother named Theo who later pushed Vincent's Van Gogh's work after he died.

Today writers do not have to be slaves to academia and the publishing conglomerates. With print-on-demand, the Internet, and Amazon.com Writers do not need the publishing conglomerates or academia or a review in the New York Times or any of that.

In addition, with word processing Writers are also freer to be creative and experiment than ever before.

The time is ripe for a revolution in literature. In this revolution there is no need for isms as in cubism or impressionism. In this literary revolution every Writer will be his own ism - every Writer will be his own literary movement - every Writer will be his own literary revolution.

Cheers!

Wolf Larsen

The publishing conglomerates, with their single-minded pursuit of profit are only concerned about money. And they certainly aren't going to risk money by publishing innovative literature.

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You're absolutely right, Wolf. But then you haven't been writing any innovative literature, so what's that got to do with it?

The insults above are all against your work, which is terrible, awful, barrel-scraping crap of the lowest subterranean type - so I guess it is personal in a way.

Come on then, post an extract of your work that you think represents you at your very best as a writer. We're all waiting with bated breath.

No doubt about it, Mr. Larson, we love to hate your writing. So I'm going to pose a different challenge to you:

List some authors whose writing accomplishes the innovativeness you're talking about. Give us a clearer idea of your literary tastes, in addition to your own literary...er...skills.

The hunger for something new different and exciting!

I can't point to very many writers of prose anymore and say I really like their work. Too much of the prose that is available is too much alike.

I used to think that the Russian novelists were great, I thought the same about Dos Pasos, Jack London, etc. - but after you devour books that are too much alike you get bored and want something different. It's sort of like eating the same thing every day or only having sex with the same person for the rest of your life. Boring.

Yes - I like Anne Sexton and Ocatavio Paz because they excited me. Other reasonably good Poets are Russel Edson, Frank Lima, Edward Roditi, as well as some of the French modern Poets as well.

However, I have found myself more inspired by modern and postmodern painting, sculpture, and theater. I like Playwright Richard Foreman a great deal. I also love free jazz - bands like the David S. Ware Quartet who play at the Knitting Factory and the Vision Festival in New York City. I also love much of 20th Century classical music - composers like Webern, Bartok, Schoenberg.

I want literature and life to be as exciting as possible. I do not like being bored. I like to hear, read, and experience NEW things - I like to be stimulated. That's one of the reasons I love traveling for example - I've been to 45 countries in Latin America, Europe, the Middle East, and Asia. I just recently came back from nearly 6 months in India.

Literature, like life, should always be bold and exciting.

Somebody also made some noise about being different for the sake of being different.

We are all different. Therefore, I believe we should all play music or write or paint differently. Why imitate the greats of the past? Only Charlie Parker should play like Charlie Parker. We should all break into new ground whether we play music or write or paint because as Human Beings we are all unique or should be unique and therefore we should each and every one of us play music or write in a unique manner - to do otherwise is not to be true to yourself. Hence, there is No inherently correct way to write.

Cheers!

Wolf Larsen

Publishing jobs: low pay looong hours

The traditional publishing industry: endless books that are too much alike and low paid workers putting in loooong hours.

I do not blame people working in the traditional publishing industry for the fact that too many books are too much alike. Even if an editor personally LOVES a manuscript that may not matter, because the book must also be commercial. If that manuscript does not have STRONG commercial potential none of the major conglomerates will publish it.

I do not envy editors and other workers in the traditional publishing industry. They often put in very long hours. Their jobs are very demanding. They are often paid low wages that don't go far in expensive New York City where many of them live.

There is no job security. Employee turnover is high.

I also notice that few traditionally published books bear a "union bug" or union emblem. Perhaps the people printing up the books aren't paid all that well either.

I wonder if workers in the traditional publishing industry are like other workers throughout America - trying to do the jobs of two or three people on half the wages they rightfully deserve.

Cheers!

Wolf Larsen

WolfLarsen said:

...there is No inherently correct way to write.

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This is one part of your approach to writing that is wrong, and earns you some of the ridicule you receive. There are rules of grammar and punctuation, and basic vocabulary, that writers break at their peril. Even experimental writers who seem to blast past the rules of style are usually manipulating those rules, rather than ignoring them. Your writing doesn't set out to pioneer, using correct style as a point of departure. Your writing is just bad.



P.S. Thanks for replying to my little challenge. Interesting.

Mari said:

There are rules of grammar and punctuation, and basic vocabulary, that writers break at their peril. Even experimental writers who seem to blast past the rules of style are usually manipulating those rules, rather than ignoring them. Your writing doesn't set out to pioneer, using correct style as a point of departure. Your writing is just bad.

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Yes, first you must master grammar before you can be taken seriously as one that can break with the conventions. Coming straight at us with illiterate brain drips just makes us laugh. You've made loads of little puddles now.

Mari said:

Thanks for replying to my little challenge. Interesting.

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In light of problems with the veracity of your other posts, I regret this comment. I can't be confident that you have ever read Dos Pasos, Jack London, Anne Sexton, Ocatavio Paz, Russel Edson, Frank Lima, Edward Roditi, or the French modern Poets, whom you capitalize for reasons known only to you. You're a hustler and you could have picked up those names anywhere just to have a few to drop.

I have no reason to believe that you have listened to Webern, Bartok, and Schoenberg, or that you have spent time viewing modern and postmodern painting and sculpture. And while we're on the subject of art, Theo didn't promote Vincent's work after Vincent died. Theo died just six months later. It was Theo's widow who made Vincent the legend he is today, in spite of pressure from those who believed it was not a woman's place to do so.

Get your intellectual pretenses right.

I love it when bibliophiles intellectually wrestle. First there's the trash talk....

Mari said:

I can't be confident that you have ever read...whom you capitalize for reasons known only to you.

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Then the call out....

Mari said:

You're a hustler and you could have picked up those names anywhere just to have a few to drop.

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Followed by the knock out blow by clothesline...

Mari said:

Get your intellectual pretenses right.

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Unlike the traditional wrestling fan, I'm not holding up a colourfully miss-spelt sign with "The Wolf Man's going down" written on it, but I am drinking beer and fiddling with my nuts (pistachio).

K-S

Kenny Shovel said:

I love it when bibliophiles intellectually wrestle. First there's the trash talk....Then the call out....Followed by the knock out blow by clothesline...


Unlike the traditional wrestling fan, I'm not holding up a colourfully miss-spelt sign with "The Wolf Man's going down" written on it, but I am drinking beer and fiddling with my nuts (pistachio).

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WOLF 3:16

Kenny Shovel said:

Unlike the traditional wrestling fan, I'm not holding up a colourfully miss-spelt sign with "The Wolf Man's going down" written on it, but I am drinking beer and fiddling with my nuts (pistachio).
K-S

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Your nuts are looking a little red you'd better slow down on the fiddling there little hamster.

Nope--no wrestling. I was embarrassed about my momentary politeness to him, so I posted in anger. From there I could only cross the line to flaming, so I will not be posting in his threads again.