Günter Grass

Wintergreen said:

I don't think that's a fair comparison. Grass was part of the generation (born in the twenties) who were indoctrinated into Nazi society at a very young age when they surely didn't have the critical faculties to even think of resisting.

OJ Simpson, on the other hand, lives in a free country and whatever he did or didn't do was entirely his own choice.

Also, it is absurd to claim that there is no such thing as a "better crime" or "worse crime". Do you really believe that murder is no worse than shoplifting, for example? For the same reason, Grass's "crimes", such as they are, are not equivalent to those of the leaders of the Nazi regime.

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Well, May be I had to put it like that- there is no a "better murder" or a "worse murder", should not I?

I still do not think that these people should be granted prizes. Here OJ Sipmson is not very different from Grass. Actually if I say today that I think that OJ Sipson had written amazing literature, I guess I would be stoned or crusified. Even if what I would say would be truth. Simpson would not get any prize, because it is NOT MORAL. I see that giving prizes to Nazis, whatever their curcomstances were to join the Nazis, is NOT MORAL. Being a Nazi (SS was it ?), he supported the deads even if he did not do them. He just "washed his hands". So I guess that we can enjoy the literature, but altogether let him suffer in within himself for what he was. It is just FAIR. It is the only FAIRNESS that we all owe to the dead. But what we do instead? We give them prizes! OK, let him be alife, let him write, but do not try to defend him. That is not moral and not fair. If any of your own kids were subjected to a concentration camp, and gased there, would you not speak differently? Would you not see the whole Nazi organization, each and every member, as guilty? Just picture it in your own mind that there was your own kid, dying in there, and you will find out- it was not moral at all.

So basically, we're going to say that no German born before 1945 should be allowed to write literature, regardless of its content?

Yes, and let's not forget that Grass was largely responsible for making the German conscience remain aware of its involvement, making the country confront the demons of its past. Despite his apparent difficulties in dealing with his personal involvement in the Holocaust, he had tremendous courage in taking such a strong stance at a time when most simply wanted to pave over this era in history. I dare say we could use a Grass here in the United States.

I'd like to see him win a Nobel.

unKeMPt said:

I'd like to see him win a Nobel.

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Well, there's no video of it on the official site, but at least you can read the presentation speech and his Nobel lecture:
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/1999/

Sorry, this is a discussion I'm not willing to take part in. I'll leave it at the fact that I consider Grass to be one of the finest European writers of the 20th century, and that's what's important to me.
He simply hasn't done anything heinous enough for me to reject his art.

Waveguide: you might want to look into some of Hannah Arendt's work.

Øystein said:

Waveguide: you might want to look into some of Hannah Arendt's work.

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I was actually about to make that suggestion.

While discussing his past, (almost) nobody mentioned any of his works. What interesting and readable book by Grass would one recommend for beginners? I am still against his getting the Nobel Prize, but I believe that it is not a good reason (for myself) to stay ignorant.

The waveguide said:

While discussing his past, (almost) nobody mentioned any of his works. What interesting and readable book by Grass would one recommend for beginners? I am still against his getting the Nobel Prize, but I believe that it is not a good reason (for myself) to stay ignorant.

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The Tin Drum.

The waveguide said:

While discussing his past, (almost) nobody mentioned any of his works. What interesting and readable book by Grass would one recommend for beginners? I am still against his getting the Nobel Prize, but I believe that it is not a good reason (for myself) to stay ignorant.

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I've only read the Tin Drum, which seems to be the most widely recommended. It's certainly a very interesting book, but it's not particularly easy to read. But if you're willing to concentrate, you'll be rewarded.