March 2009: Edward P. Jones: The Known World

This is the answer the author gave in the interview Robert posted about free slaves owning slaves:

I don't have any hard data but I'm quite certain that the numbers of black slaveowners was quite small in relation to white slaveowners. The fact that many people — even many black people — didn't know such people existed is perhaps proof of how few there were. In addition, as I note in the novel, husbands purchased wives and parents purchased children, and so their neighbors may have come to know the people purchased not as slaves, as property, but as family members. Finally, owning a slave was not a cheap proposition, and the economic status of most blacks back then didn't lend itself to owning a human being

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joderu95 said:

I'm a bit past half way and I really like it. I am interested in, amongst other things, the relationship between Henry and Robbins. Without giving anything away, there is a scene between those two and Henry's slave Moses that really helps solidify the image of William Robbins for me. He is not an evil man but it is clear how he thinks of black people as chattel until they can prove otherwise by presenting their "free papers." His character reinforces the idea that slavery was first and foremost an economic system, though an immoral one. Henry's character also serves a useful purpose too and that is, in part, to remind us that there were black slave owners as well. More common were black slave owners in South Carolina than Virginia and it was not uncommon for family members to own other family members. This was done obviously to save family from harsh treatment by abusive masters and also to exploit the resource of labor for financial gain.

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I think Henry saw Robbins maybe as a father figure ,it seems they had a bond on some level .

I thought the small bits where a couple people died and Jones continues on in the storytelling without any kind of pause were pretty cool. One second someone is being shot and the next second they are visiting with family in by and by.

joderu95 said:

I thought the small bits where a couple people died and Jones continues on in the storytelling without any kind of pause were pretty cool. One second someone is being shot and the next second they are visiting with family in by and by.

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I think it's supposed to refelct how unremarkable the death of a slave, even a violent one, was in those times.

MonkeyCatcher said:

I think it's supposed to refelct how unremarkable the death of a slave, even a violent one, was in those times.

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True,you also see that when they say reaching a certain age and not being dead was a surprise.

That could be, although I just saw it more as simply a quick glimpse at the bliss of release from a difficult life. But I don't doubt the idea about a slave's death being unremarkable, save for the fact that property was lost, is the point Jones was making.

Hah, my copy got lost in the mail. Amazon will replace it though.

I finally finished the book. But my earlier somewhat lukewarm opinion of it (Book & Reader Forums - View Single Post - March 2009:The Known World-Edward P. Jones) never improved, and steadily declined as I slogged through the last chapters. I found the death and immediate bliss scenes to be especially weird.

The book does show the depravity of humankind. It tries, somewhat unsuccessfully in my judgment, to lay this at the foot of slavery - whether black-owned or white-owned. But at the end, the depravity is the result of the inward nature of the characters rather than the outward circumstances in which they find themselves.

There are some attractive characters amid the grimness. Elias and Celeste. John and Winifred. I am not sure I understood anything about Stamford (how tiring it was to repeatedly be told he was a man who lived for young stuff) and his epiphany amongst the blueberries and dead crows.

Many of you liked the book. I wish I shared your enthusiasm. To me it showed promise - but in the end was a disappointment.

It showed a single aspect of humanity's depravity - slavery. I have a hard time believing Jones would think that since slavery has ended in America so has our depravity.

Legal slavery has ended. Slavery has not. Modern Slavery in America

You've caught me with a semantic oversight.

So it is not clear that when I say "slavery has ended in America" that what I am saying is that the systematic capture and subjugation of various African peoples and subsequent physical abuse by their European and American captors is no longer a reality in the United States of America? The pre-20th Century Atlantic Slave Trade and modern issues of forced labor around the world are two separate issues. For the record, the quote above would correspond with the former, but not the latter situation. At least in a thread about The Known World.

joderu95 said:

You've caught me with a semantic oversight.

So it is not clear that when I say "slavery has ended in America" that what I am saying is that the systematic capture and subjugation of various African peoples and subsequent physical abuse by their European and American captors is no longer a reality in the United States of America? The pre-20th Century Atlantic Slave Trade and modern issues of forced labor around the world are two separate issues. For the record, the quote above would correspond with the former, but not the latter situation. At least in a thread about The Known World.

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I read and re-read you post and think your clear Joderu.

Like MC,i found the end a bit of a let down.The book in itself is quite good,lively and more than everything,it descibe slavery with a different angle.It is an existing fact so obviously immoral that the author didn't add judgement to it.It let the characteres evolve without the usual lachrymal bacground and let us immerse in the state of mind of the epoque with having the villains pointed out all the time.No violins of horns to direct our feelings.
I also apreciate the tone in the dialogues betwin slaves,there different ways.There something foreign and exotic well put without being caricatural,no modjo here,just a flavor.
It was good but i don't think shall look for more of his book any time soon and i don't wake up at night thinking about it.

Hey Landslide,only 5 days left.How is it going??Still reading it?

saliotthomas said:

Hey Landslide,only 5 days left.How is it going??Still reading it?

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Shamefully yes, I'm still reading it... I'm enjoying it very much, although it gets confusing often and, in my opinion has too many characters. I spend a lot of time remembering where did I read that name before and what information do I already have on that character... I do like the style in which it's written and I think it's very well written.

Also I'm reading the original english version which lowers my reading speed considerably...

I don't think I'll finish it in March so I won't be joining April's BOTH...

Finished it last night. I enjoyed it very much but it left me with a bitter sweet taste... It had, in my opinion, too many paralel stories, too many characters... I mean, who was the protagonist in your opinion? I couldn't find one.

I did enjoy the end though,