Frank Herbert: Dune

It's the best sci-fi book I've ever read. Symbolics, huh? Not sure about it, there's a mix of Islamic and Christian faith (the coming of the Messiah), as well as Zen-Buddhist. Most of it deals with the zen-sunni control of the mind and the ability to influence and interpret others' behaviour. I'd say it's takes a lot from NLP - Neurolinguistic Programming. What are you looking for, exactly?

Check out this thread in the book of the month forum

I'll post again there shortly (7days). Been absent from the forum for ages.

Sometimes at school I wonder off thinking of Dune and how living would affect ones life there.

The thing I thought was astonishing was the fight with Feyd - Rautha ( the so-called chosen one according to the Bene Gesserit) and Paul.
Too bad it didn't last long in the book, because that is the chapter I longed for in the entire book.

Like some others I thought about how similar the Houses in Dune are to our nations.
I reckoned that the Americans are quite comparable with the Emperors posse and the Guild with the European Union / other loyal dogs of the States.
But the most awesome comparement is the Fremen, the last rebels against the spice-obsessed bourgeois and the West wanting oil.

This is just my view on what the book meant to me, I would definately like to know how you feel about this book.

THERE WIL BE SOME SPOILERS IN THIS POST SO BEWARE

From bob_5000

what I also would like someone to discuss (carlos?) is the meaning of the Idaho ghola. I don't wanna spoil anything, but I have been fascinated in how the story shifts away from leto and the fremen to the bene gesserit and their gola, and I would reall like to hear someone else's opinion of that.

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Idaho or his ghola is the only character that is present in all 7 books written by Frank Herbert. As the time passes from book 1 – 7 Idaho becomes more and more of a pivotal character in the direction that the Universe takes.
The Duncan Idaho Ghola of Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse of Dune becomes the super human as he has all the training from the Bene Gesserit and Bene Tleilaxu and also the Honoured Mates, plus whatever genetic engineering that the Bene Tleilaxu have given him. His only weakness that I can see is that he does not carry the Siona marker gene which hides people from prescience. This is why he remains in the stolen no-ship. Ultimately fleeing in at the end of Chapter house with a reborn Miles Teg (what will he become)?

The last 2 books in the series that are being written by Anderson and Herbert will examine, I believe, what happens to Duncan and whether he can become the next Kwisatz Haderach, or a person of similar power. Who will end up pulling his strings, the Bene Gesserit, the Bene Tleilaxu or the Honored Mates. Or will he go rogue and call the shots himself (more likely).

I think the books will have to explain why Duncan is so special. From memory Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse of Dune do this to a certain degree, but it has been quite a while since I read these books. Possibly time for a quick re-read.

There is a definite similar thread that persists throughout the Dune series, the search or creation for the all powerful being, Paul, Leto, and now Duncan. Very similar to our world for those with a religious inclination, God, Allah, Jesus, Mohamed, etc.

The golden Path in God Emperor of Dune has opened up a vast universe by causing the scattering and ensuring the survival of the human race. This has also hopefully ensured the survival of the Dune universe in the written format, even if Herbert and Anderson stop writing after the ‘final’ two books I hope others will take up the pen and continue exploring, possibly franchised out which seems to be becoming quite common at the moment.

As a point of interest Dune was written 40 years ago! WOW

harry potter, james frazier, tata the eunich. Paul? No I don't think so. Not one of my favorite heroes. I found the book ultimatley cold, although the bene gesserit training was extremely cool. I couldn't get past the feeling that the book was lacking in emotions and pushing science to a limit that I couldn't accept. Not only that, but they ate worm poop for for goodness sakes

RIKKIS said:

harry potter, james frazier, tata the eunich. Paul? No I don't think so. Not one of my favorite heroes. I found the book ultimatley cold, although the bene gesserit training was extremely cool. I couldn't get past the feeling that the book was lacking in emotions and pushing science to a limit that I couldn't accept. Not only that, but they ate worm poop for for goodness sakes

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Dune can appear cold and calculating, however I tink you are ignoring the honor and passion that the Fremen have, also you have to appreciate that when most of the universe is against you as it was for Paul, you have to become a hard B'stard to survive.

As for pushing science to the limits, well it is science fiction!

Dune

I thought The Dune Trilogy was a great read, I do not think that it is cold I agree with Carlos, if you had been through what paul had, you'd be a bit mean. I especially loved the Sand-worms, it is an intresting concept and painted a clear image of the colossal beast in my mind. As for the technology in the book, I think the point of Science Fiction is to strech the limits of Technology and Science.

I enjoyed Dune greatly, It had a great plot and a good story. I felt that certain parts were portrayed in a manner that could have been better. But after Children of Dune I hated the rest of the series. I mean what was Frank thinking?? He basically messed up the whole series for me because of the last three books...

Just finished God Emperor, the pacings a little slower, conversations and exchanges between characters taking up the vast majority of the book(perhaps more than previous) - but I liked this and I think it's one of the things Frank Herbert excelled at

greatly enjoyed all so far, Children was the hardest going but again I enjoyed it a lot

The writing seemed to me to be a little variable in places, but mostly excellent and with moments of true greatness which have really stuck in the memory

still not sure wether to buy the prequels

Read the remaining Frank Herbert novels first.

The pre-quels are no match, but still enjoyable to read

I have just recently finished reading this book, and all-in-all I was rather disappointed in it. I think I just got let down because I had heard so much hype about it and then found that it really nothing special in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, it is a good book with some really great ideas and it is definately worth reading, I just don't think that it lives up to all the rave.

Idun said:

I'd like to state my opinion about the Fremen. I may be alone in my assessment, but for me they behave more like a herd of wild, thoughtless animals, not like feeling people.

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I don't feel this way at all. One of the things that seperates humans from animals is the fact that we are aware of some sort of life after death, or of the significance of death (or so I've been told by my father countless times). The Freman obviously land in this category as they hold cerimonies for the dead, and are respectful of them. Just because they take their water does not mean that they are animals, they do this to survive their harsh environment. They do not maim the bodies in any way, nor do they just leave their kin lying there dead, but they ensure that they have a proper burial. In my eyes, this makes them very much human.

I also saw somewhere very early on in the thread that someone posted that Paul was one of their favourite heros. I don't share this view at all. To me, Paul because less and less appealing as the book went on, until at the end I viewed him as exceptionally cold and heartless. I think that the Freman are the heros of the book, and I really disliked Paul a lot at the end. I think it was the way that he treated his mother that first sparked this.

Idun said:

I'm in a similar situation as you, lies. I got stuck somewhere in the beginning of the Children of Dune and I don't feel like going on. I don't know why. Maybe it's because I don't like any of the characters?

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KEEP GOING!!! Dune to children of Dune are only setting the scene the story takes huge twists and turns and you\ll never exect what happens, lets just say that the next 3 books after Chilidren span about 40000 years but it wont take you that long to read, i hope!! any way the last few books really develop the characters and have a slightly darker and massively deeper side to it. Old Frank deals with so many issues particulary that of human intrinsic natures, where they come from, the motives you can ass somebody has behind their actions (i use this all the time_). He also deals with binding people to you without them knowing and what responsibilites that places upon yourself. All in all i think they are marvelous books and find something new on every page every time i read them( i'm not a geek!!!! they just get deeper and deeer into human nature every time i read them)

Good luck
Hamish

Like most things in our universe, Dune is not for everyone.

The books are long, intricate, rife with philosophy and conjecture.

The author described Dune as the culmination of six years of research bent towards one goal. In his own words:

"It was to be a story exploring the myth of the Messiah. It was to produce another view of a human-occupied planet as an energy machine. It was to penetrate the interlocked workings of politics and economics. It was to be an examination of absolute prediction and its pitfalls. It was to have an awareness drug in it and explore what could happen through dependance on such a substance. Potable water was to be an analogy for oil and for water itself..."

It is not a work that everyone can appreciate, but for those who can, Dune stands out as one of the monumental works of fiction in our time.

Nice post. Got a link Jehannum

Dune ... what can I say. Excellent! After reading it I understood what the power of a single person weilding religon as an Axe can be. We have "real" prophetes today who weild similar power over there people. "Jihad" is very much a reality. It is an experiance.

It worried me to find a 20-page glossary at the back of Dune, but relieved to find that some of the terms eg Qanat, are present-day words used on Earth. So that whittled it down to only 19 pages of new words. But maybe that's what you need for a novel that has become a legend in its own pre-pulp lifetime. It is absorbing and once again superior to its sequels.

Geoff

Dune is a great book, but sometimes I get the feeling that the writer isn't straight-forward about what is actually the point.

Leto_Atreides said:

Dune is a great book, but sometimes I get the feeling that the writer isn't straight-forward about what is actually the point.

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Any specific incidents that you can remember?

finished Dune last night. A question for anyone whose read:

Was it me or did it seem that the planet was roughly the size of Texas by all descriptions. The deep south of the desert was described as 20 thumpers away. Doing some rough estimations in my head based on Paul and Jessica's earlier desert crossing using a thumper, I figured this could be no more than 250 miles. thoughts?

rdub said:

finished Dune last night. A question for anyone whose read:

Was it me or did it seem that the planet was roughly the size of Texas by all descriptions. The deep south of the desert was described as 20 thumpers away. Doing some rough estimations in my head based on Paul and Jessica's earlier desert crossing using a thumper, I figured this could be no more than 250 miles. thoughts?

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I'm assuming that the 20 thumpers were measured from the city, so could it not just be that the city was positioned quite far south already? Sorry if I got it completely wrong - I read this book a long time ago and can not remember specifics