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Philip Pullman: His Dark Materials

M

merlyn523

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Has anybody read the His Dark Materials books by Philip Pullman? It's a trilogy: The Golden Compass (Northern Lights in the UK), The Subtle Knife, and The Amber Spyglass. They're sometimes mistaken for children's books, but it gets quite deep (and very enthralling) at times. Sort of a re-writing of Paradise Lost that questions religion. Makes you think, even if you don't always agree with it.

There's currently a stage version playing at the National Theatre in London that's been getting rave reviews, and New Line's working on a film version. If you haven't read them yet, give it a try :)
 
I have read this series. The first book is the best out of the three, and the 2nd and 3rd I felt lost a lot of momentum as they progressed.

In the end I was left disappointed.

rune
 
hmm rune, I'm divided between the first and the last one for which I liked best. The Subtle Knife was a transition, while the first book introduced the worlds and characters, so it was interesting, and The Amber Spyglass was the climax, and was probably the most thought provoking. What'd you guys think of the concept of the daemon?
 
Daemon - the word has some implications but Panthalimon and the other daemons just dont seem to fill them - dont you think ?
 
When I first read them, I was luckily ignorant of the meaning of the word, and I didn't realize the implications until much later. I think it was interesting the way Pullman's characters couldn't survive without their "demons" - perhaps he was indicating that without out darker side, we are dead, and that people who try to make us live sinless lives (lives without demons) are asking us not to be human any more (since the children who had their daemons removed didn't necessarily die - they just became empty shells). If that's the case, the fact that children's daemons changed until they became adults certainly raises some interesting topic for discussion.
 
I read these books, they were really good, almost as good as some of Garth Nix's stuff... almost...
I'm trying to get my friends to read His Dark Materials, but they just won't listen to me. They don't know what they're missing :rolleyes:
The Amber Spyglass was the best one in my opinion.
 
Twigleg said:
almost as good as some of Garth Nix's stuff... almost...
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Ah, I believe you mistyped 'quite similar to Garth Nix's work, though obviously far superior as Pullman is actually a thoroughly intelligent man and a far superior writer, not to mention that Nix seems to have missed somewhere amidst his bandwagon-jumping that it is the philosophical and theological symbolism that makes His Dark Materials truly great.'
 
Themistocles said:
Ah, I believe you mistyped 'quite similar to Garth Nix's work, though obviously far superior as Pullman is actually a thoroughly intelligent man and a far superior writer, not to mention that Nix seems to have missed somewhere amidst his bandwagon-jumping that it is the philosophical and theological symbolism that makes His Dark Materials truly great.'
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No, I didn't mistype anything, and I just prefer Garth Nix to Phillip Pullman. I was merely expressing my opinion, and you could do the same without making me sound like a fool.
 
I've read the first two books and loved them. They're really a cut above your average reading material. Pullman is a fantastic writer.
 
Twigleg said:
No, I didn't mistype anything, and I just prefer Garth Nix to Phillip Pullman. I was merely expressing my opinion, and you could do the same without making me sound like a fool.
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Ah, twas but in jest. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
 
I read the first one nearly two years ago and then did the other two a few months back and they were amazing. I'm not wild about sci-fi and fantasy because I find it hard to follow the worlds, but these were amazing. I only read them because of all the talk about Pullman's ideas on creation and God and stuff, but I think I missed all those messages in my excitement about the story.

Did anyone else get all those deep things?

Have you read any of his other books? They were ok but nowhere near as good.

I liked Rama II by A C Clarke and someone, and also Childhood's End by him. Any others you can recommend? Not too much technology - it boggles my brain.

Also liked the Wizard of Earthsea books by Ursula le Guinn when I was about nine but haven't managed to get hold of them since.
 
I read the trilogy a while back, and continue to be amazed at how high the stakes were for Pullman. I mean, he broached some very, very heavy themes. Not just the nature of "Original Sin", but also the nature of adolescent sexuality, the dangers of scientific advancement (a la Mary Shelley), etc.
Any author that can get you rooting for Lucifer (basically) in his attempt to overthrow the rule of God in heaven has really pulled something off. The problem is, in my opinion, that Pullman also left himself in a no-win situation. Exactly how does one end a war in heaven?
 
My 13-year-old son just finished reading The Subtle Knife and wrote a Book Report about it. He of course read The Golden Compass already.
 
I like the trilogy, but I found it very difficult to get started. I read the first 80 or so pages of the first book 3 or 4 times before I was able to push through. Once I got past a certain point it was very interesting from then on and I quickly finish all three books. I did have to force myself to keep reading the first half of book one though.
 
The His Dark Materials trilogy is my favourite series of books ever, and Pullman my favourite author - I think the books are all different enough to be interesting, but they continue the plot well, there's a lot of continuity between them. I think the characterization is great, and the ideas behind it are brilliant. You don't really have to agree with all the ideas, but I don't think Pullman necessarily speaks out against the belief in God, as speaking out against organized religion and its failures.
I saw the plays in the National Theatre and they were suprisingly admirable and impressive. I don't know about the films that are proposed though...apparently they're going to take out the entire religious aspect of the story - leaving, basically, a hollow fantasy plot with no real philosophy or meaning, which seems ridiculous to me. I know there are other ideas and meanings in it besides the religious aspect, but I see this as such a vital aspect that, whether it offends people or not, it should be left in or the films can't come close to reinventing the books.
 
I couldn't agree more. This is the first I've known about a movie, but I would be extremely disappointed if they took out the religous aspect. That's what gives the books meaning. I don't know why pullman would agree to that. Surely he has imput.
 
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