Serial killer novels?

Lucien · May 18, 2006

Sorry if I interrupt anything here, but I would like to recommend Intensity by Dean R Koontz... and I know some of you TBF dwellers hates his guts, but this is a very thrilling novel, where you get the story bouth from the young heroine Chyna Shepherd and the psychopath killer Edgler Vess' perspectives.
Intense and disturbing...

Fantasy Moon · May 19, 2006

Curtains of Blood is mostly following the activities of Bram Stroker from what I've read up to this point, but there are short chapters littered about that are told from the viewpoint of Jack the Ripper. I'm liking reading it so far, but I wonder if that's partially because all the literary figures in it are ones whom I like such as Arthur Conan Doyle.

Doug Johnson · May 19, 2006

Stewart said:
You always have to disagree. You are, afterall, the guy who thinks the sacred feminine is the theme of The Da Vinci Code and that ions doesn't understand that book.

You still brag about your inability to identify a theme in The Da Vinci Code?

Stewart said:
No, Dahmer dismembered people because, after his attempts at lobotomy failed, he had to dispose of the body

So why did he keep a head in his freezer?

Stewart said:
You always have to disagree.

Some day, I hope you'll realize that I only disagree with you when you have your facts wrong. Though, I realize that you'll probably never admit that you have your facts wrong.

Anyway, some more facts:

"By age 10, Dahmer was "experimenting with dead animals: decapitating rodents, bleaching chicken bones with acid, nailing a dog's carcass to a tree and mounting its head on a stake."

As a child, he mutilated animals when he had no need to dispose of their bodies.

Stewart said:
Let's not forget that the serial killers mentioned who supposedly stopped their actions probably didn't do it through choice but by imprisonment for other crimes or death.

The Green River Killer timeline:

http://www.nwcn.com/sharedcontent/n...110503WABgreen_river_timelineJM.1f3d6a17.html

http://www.kirotv.com/greenrivermurders/2595665/detail.html

BTK timeline:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,148830,00.html

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/special_packages/btk/8268128.htm

steffee · May 19, 2006

Stewart said:
Abecedarian said:

I thought it was particularly well done, given the context.

Click to expand...

You bet. The quotes were extremely well done. They made it easy to create awful images in my head. Steffee didn't say anything was poorly written, merely graphic.

That's right.

Doug Johnson said:
Some day, I hope you'll realize that I only disagree with you when you have your facts wrong. Though, I realize that you'll probably never admit that you have your facts wrong.

There's no need to be rude.

To whoever suggested Intensity by Dean Koontz ^^^ (sorry, I can't see your post due to a million posts by people who can't organise their thoughts into one post) I have to agree that, despite it being only one of two Koontz novels I've read, it accurately depicted both the murderer's and the victim's thoughts (as far as my limited knowledge on the subject goes). Psychologically, that is.

Doug Johnson · May 19, 2006

MonkeyCatcher said:
I thought your original point was that books only work if the reader can empathise with the narrator? I fail to see how your above statement supports your "original point" anyway. A story about a serial killer who stopped would work, yes, but so would a story about a serial killer who didn't stop. Does that mean that my original point is correct too?

My point, is that most human beings want some empathy for the victims somewhere. Even in a newspaper account of a serial killer who preys on prostitutes, the reporter will go to extreme lengths to show empathy for the victims. They don't write "The prostitute’s body was discovered..."

They write,

"Mary Smith remembers when her daughter was 14, before she became addicted to drugs, Jane loved music, baseball and her puppy rex. Jane's body was discovered..."

My point, which I didn't realize would be so contentious, is that most people probably wouldn't want to spend an entire novel inside a serial killer's head. (I haven't read "American Pyscho," but I do remember many people being disgusted by it, and some book stores wouldn't even display it; they hid it behind the counter.)

But, as I've admitted, your points are valid too. There are many ways to tell a serial killer story. Some of which involve the killer's point of view. But I wouldn't recommend one told entirely from the killer's point of view, because there would be no victim empathy and most people would find that disgusting.

Doug Johnson · May 19, 2006

steffee said:
There's no need to be rude.

If Stewart admits his facts are wrong, I'll apologize.

It won’t be the first time I’ve apologized and it won’t be the last. In fact, I rather enjoy being surprised by people.

MonkeyCatcher · May 19, 2006

Doug Johnson said:
My point, is that most human beings want some empathy for the victims somewhere. Even in a newspaper account of a serial killer who preys on prostitutes, the reporter will go to extreme lengths to show empathy for the victims. They don't write "The prostitute’s body was discovered..."

They write,

"Mary Smith remembers when her daughter was 14, before she became addicted to drugs, Jane loved music, baseball and her puppy rex. Jane's body was discovered..."

Yes, but reports in the newpapers are very different to novels. They have to show empathy because these are real people, and because of that they need to show respect for both the person in question and their family. Novels, however, do not contain real people (unless it is historical fiction) and therefore this empathy is not required. You wouldn't see a reporter describing in intricate detail how a murderer killed their victims, and yet this happens a lot in novels. The distinction is extremely apparent (well I thought it was at least).

My point, which I didn't realize would be so contentious, is that most people probably wouldn't want to spend an entire novel inside a serial killer's head.

But just above you stated that your point was something else entirely. We'll just ignore that, though, until you can get your arguement straight.

(I haven't read "American Pyscho," but I do remember many people being disgusted by it, and some book stores wouldn't even display it; they hid it behind the counter.)

Yet it was still a bestseller, was it not? That would, therefore, make your statement that "most people probably wouldn't want to spend an entire novel inside a serial killer's head" invalid. Evidently people have no problem spending an entire novel in a serial killer's head. Many people probably were disgusted, by both the graphic details and the lack of empathy, but still more found it interesting, it seems.

Brys · May 20, 2006

Iain Banks' The Wasp Factory is a masterpiece - I'm not sure how far you can call Frank Cauldhame a serial killer, because by the start of the novel he's more or less given up (it was a phase he was going through) - but he's one of the most interesting characters in fiction. As are most of his family.

Stewart · May 20, 2006

Doug Johnson said:
You still brag about your inability to identify a theme in The Da Vinci Code?

It's not bragging.

So why did he keep a head in his freezer?

Because it was intention that he would boil it when he had the chance as he liked to keep and paint skulls. When you boil a human head it becomes much easier to remove the skin and hair and all the other crap before tossing it into his barrel of acid. Nice new shiny skull.

"By age 10, Dahmer was "experimenting with dead animals: decapitating rodents, bleaching chicken bones with acid, nailing a dog's carcass to a tree and mounting its head on a stake."

As a child, he mutilated animals when he had no need to dispose of their bodies.

Along with pyromania and bedwetting, cruelty to animals is a trait the majority of potential serial killers share when in their childhood. Ian Brady, for example, used to throw live cats out of multi-storey blocks.

Halo · May 20, 2006

Like in the Most Whackest Books thread, there is quite a lot of intolerance and rudeness to be found here too. Please keep your posts on-topic and argue your points in a civil manner. Thank you.

Doug Johnson · May 22, 2006

Stewart said:
Nice new shiny skull.

And why would he care if its shiny, if all he wants to do is dispose of it?

Stewart said:
Ian Brady, for example, used to throw live cats out of multi-storey blocks.

Because he enjoyed watching a live cat go splat, or because there was no other way to dispose of a live cat?

Stewart · May 22, 2006

Doug Johnson said:
And why would he care if its shiny, if all he wants to do is dispose of it?

Still arguing your pointless argument?

Let's go back and see what I said. Take my hand...

Stewart said:
after his attempts at lobotomy failed, he had to dispose of the body..

Dispose of the body; keep the shiny skull. We all like to keep little souvenirs.

Doug Johnson · May 22, 2006

MonkeyCatcher said:
Yet it was still a bestseller, was it not? That would, therefore, make your statement that "most people probably wouldn't want to spend an entire novel inside a serial killer's head" invalid.

Though Hitler wouldn't be called a "serial killer" he did kill large numbers without mercy or empathy. Mien Kampf doesn't seem too popular.

http://www.bookandreader.com/forums/showthread.php?p=194593#post194593

I guess it comes down to the definition of most people. Undoubtedly, some people enjoyed American Psycho. Did you enjoy it?

Stewart said:
Dispose of the body; keep the shiny skull. We all like to keep little souvenirs.

Lots of serial killers take a piece of jewelry. Why did Dahmer want a severed head and not something much more convenient? And why couldn’t the live cat be disposed of by letting it walk home?

Stewart · May 22, 2006

Doug Johnson said:
Why did Dahmer want a severed head and not something much more convenient?

Well, if Chris Scarver hadn't banged his brain in I'd ask him. Serioulsy, though, he was creating an altar. To what, I don't know.

And why couldn’t the live cat be disposed of by letting it walk home?

Stairs were out of bounds and the elevator was out of order.

Doug Johnson · May 22, 2006

Stewart said:
he was creating an altar.

Finally, we agree. You'd better check out the Da Vince Code thread though. You're going to be pissed off.

Stewart · May 22, 2006

Doug Johnson said:
You'd better check out the Da Vince Code thread though. You're going to be pissed off.

Worn the T-shirt; yadda yadda!

Real Great Idea · May 22, 2006

I read Two of a Kind, by darcy O'Brien. It is a novel about the Hillside Stranglers activities, and their court proceedings. I found it very interesting. Just for the record, if people didn't like to read this kind of material, horror books would be obsolete.

Stewart · May 22, 2006

Real Great Idea said:
Just for the record, if people didn't like to read this kind of material, horror books would be obsolete.

Na, it's a very small subgenre of crime. Serial killers in horror tend to be ridiculous parodies of what a serial killer is.

MonkeyCatcher · May 23, 2006

Doug Johnson said:
Though Hitler wouldn't be called a "serial killer" he did kill large numbers without mercy or empathy. Mien Kampf doesn't seem too popular.

Firstly, like you said he wasn't a serial killer, therefore your "arguement" is invalid. Secondly, Mein Kampf is a very different book to the one that I propse would be an interesting one. Mein Kampf is not a book following the story of a serial killer through his own eyes. Mein Kampf is a book depicting one man's hatred for people of certain races and describing his ideal world, which consists of a world minus these people. So it stands to reason that some find it offensive really, doesn't it? The book has nothing to do with the killings he was responsible for.

I guess it comes down to the definition of most people. Undoubtedly, some people enjoyed American Psycho. Did you enjoy it?

I haven't read it, to be honest. So are you trying to say that a majority of the people who purchased the book disliked it?

Shade · May 23, 2006

If we're doing a head count, I bought American Psycho and loved it.

Mein Kampf isn't a novel.

Serial killer novels?

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