A Few Of Stiggy Says (poetry)

[canuck]

Wondering

I wonder if the sparrows laugh
And if they really care
What happens to a tall giraffe
Or to a grizzly bear

Do bumble bees have party hats
And birthday cake with candles
Do butterflies have coffee pots
And china cups with handles

I wonder if the sun comes up
Or does the world go down
Or what it's like to be a pup
And trot around the town

Growing Up

Yesterday I was very young
But now that I am eight
I must try very hard not to stick out my tongue
And hurry so's not to be late

I used to play with my teddy bear
But now I'm too old to do that
I think I'll go call on Rosemary Ann
We can sit in the garden and chat.

A couple of little poems stashed among my writing souvenirs.

 

[Meadow337]

Debate is good - means people are paying attention and thinking about what you have written.

 

[canuck]

In experiencing poetry ... all interpretations are equally valid ... that is the beauty of poetry (and why I hate formal analyses of it. That just squishes it into one very tiny box.)

I'm not sure how valid an interpretation is when the writer obviously knows what she (or he) meant in writing the poem. If the reader's interpretation differs it's like saying "that's not what you really meant to say". How do you debate what is in someone else's mind?

 

[Meadow337]

I'm not sure how valid an interpretation is when the writer obviously knows what she (or he) meant in writing the poem. If the reader's interpretation differs it's like saying "that's not what you really meant to say". How do you debate what is in someone else's mind?

Every one's EXPERIENCE of the work is different and the interpretation you put on things because of your own unique perspective which is the result of the sum total of your life experiences is different from some one else's.

Somebody Kill the Rooster

In the hold of a soft sleep,
A voice calls me to wake
As my alarm clock beeps.

My bed is warm and sweet,
And I’d rather just stay
In the hold of a soft sleep.

So, I hit snooze for a few more winks,
But soon I must face the day,
As my alarm clock beeps.

I can’t deny the day is upon me,
Yet, I lay here, until I’m once again
In the hold of a soft sleep.

I find myself in pleasant dreams,
But ten minutes quickly drain away,
As my alarm clock beeps.

What’s a few more z’s
At the start of an already long day?
In the hold of a soft sleep,
Once more, my alarm clock beeps.

This one is a very good example ... if you are a person who bounds out of bed full of vim and vigour for the new day - you won't relate to this at all. Maybe you only feel reluctant to rise in the depths winter so you read this and shiver and say 'oh yes it's hard to get up when its cold and wet out', or perhaps you just hate being jarred awake by an alarm and you say 'oh gosh yes isn't the alarm really annoying' - all of those experiences / interpretations are equally valid, all are different, none detract from the words the author wrote.

 

[canuck]

I understand what you are saying - each person experiences in their own way. What I was saying is that your interpretation is not necessarily what was meant by the person writing the poem and to play with the wording is an attempt to alter what was meant in the first place.

 

[Meadow337]

I understand what you are saying - each person experiences in their own way. What I was saying is that your interpretation is not necessarily what was meant by the person writing the poem and to play with the wording is an attempt to alter what was meant in the first place.

I have no idea to what you are referring, sorry.

 

[stigmaticman]

one of the beautiful things about poems, is that they can transport you into the mood. if you read the alarm clock poem, it has a very distinct mood, as i see you all have picked up on. the idea of my poetry, is that it puts one in a place, where if they use their imagination, they can be transported to that moment. the connection comes when you empathize with the speaker. its really just a side of me at the moment, but it depends on the reader whether or not they feel a connection. again, its important to know where i'm coming from, but at the same time, you feel parts come alive in yourself that are in tune with the message. for, though we may not share the same mindset, we all have similar feelings that can bring us together.

thanks for the debate, it's kinda fun.

and that was a nice little poem, by the way canuk. it was pleasant, and playful !!

 

[canuck]

Thanks Stigmatic - at one time, long ago, I was trying to put together an anthology of children's poetry - that was when my children were small but couldn't seem to come up with enough material to go ahead with it and then the idea just faded away.

 

[stigmaticman]

well, it was altogether lovely, and your dreams brought froth something wonderful.

 

[stigmaticman]

The Ocean

Sometimes, I drift off
in the varied colors of my world,
in which I find meaning
that transcends my very thoughts.

In the varied colors of my world,
I explore many far-fetched notions
that transcend my very thoughts,
like a boat afloat in the ocean.

I explore many far-fetched notions,
for a moment I'm lost in fancy,
like a boat adrift in the ocean,
searching for more than reality.

For a moment, I'm lost in fancy,
in which I find meaning,
searching for more than reality.
Sometimes, I drift off...

 

[canuck]

What is that called when you pick up a line from the preceding stanza and use it in the next one. I know you had made mention of the various types of poetry but I didn't think to ask about it then?

 

[stigmaticman]

well, of the many forms of poetry that use repeated lines, i decided to go with my favorite of late, the pantoum, for the last two poems. it's really a simple form, that feels elaborate. it just takes a little foresight.


let me explain with 'The Storm'

you start out with a four line stanza. as you write the body of the poem, you always carry the second and fourth lines of the previous stanza, which in turn become the first and third of the next stanza.

The Storm

As the sky rolls on,
today's weather changes,
Mother Earth says 'hello'
the wind blows, hot and wet

today's weather changes,
the sky grows more and more disturbed,
the wind blows, hot and wet,
and the air takes on more moisture

so, once you've got it started, you then carry on the second and fourth line of the previous stanza, and work it into the first and third lines of the next stanza.

The Storm

As the sky rolls on,
today's weather changes,
Mother Earth says 'hello'
the wind blows, hot and wet

today's weather changes,
the sky grows more and more disturbed,
the wind blows, hot and wet,
and the air takes on more moisture

the sky grows more and more disturbed,
the clouds churn in fury,
and the air takes on more moisture,
bringing thunders to heel

and this can continue on as long as you like, until you get to the last stanza. the last stanza must end in a specific way, but it's easy. you just continue the poem, but the last stanza's second and fourth lines must be the very first stanza's first and third lines, only they reverse in order.

The Storm

As the sky rolls on,
today's weather changes,
Mother Earth says 'hello'
the wind blows, hot and wet

...

each crash makes the heart skip beat,
Mother Earth says 'hello'
which lasts for a moment,
as the sky rolls on.

and the full poem for reference.

The Storm

As the sky rolls on,
today's weather changes,
Mother Earth says 'hello'
the wind blows, hot and wet

today's weather changes,
the sky grows more and more disturbed,
the wind blows, hot and wet,
and the air takes on more moisture

the sky grows more and more disturbed,
the clouds churn in fury,
and the air takes on more moisture,
bringing thunders to heel

the clouds churn in fury,
with room-shaking flashes,
bringing thunders under heel,
giving one an uneasy feeling

with room-shaking flashes,
each crash makes the heart skip beat,
giving one an uneasy feeling,
which lasts for a moment

each crash makes the heart skip beat,
Mother Earth says 'hello'
which lasts for a moment,
as the sky rolls on.

and 'The Ocean' is done the same way, only note it is a shorter variant.

 

[Meadow337]

one of the beautiful things about poems, is that they can transport you into the mood. if you read the alarm clock poem, it has a very distinct mood, as i see you all have picked up on. the idea of my poetry, is that it puts one in a place, where if they use their imagination, they can be transported to that moment. the connection comes when you empathize with the speaker. its really just a side of me at the moment, but it depends on the reader whether or not they feel a connection. again, its important to know where i'm coming from, but at the same time, you feel parts come alive in yourself that are in tune with the message. for, though we may not share the same mindset, we all have similar feelings that can bring us together.

thanks for the debate, it's kinda fun.

and that was a nice little poem, by the way canuk. it was pleasant, and playful !!

again, its important to know where i'm coming from,

You see I really don't agree that it is that important to know where the poet himself or herself is coming from. Apart from anything else that isn't always evident from the poem. And we are not in your head, we only have the words you chose to write not the thoughts and experience behind them. In a sense we can't ever know where you were coming from. We can only share in the part of the experience we understand from the words and that experience is entirely an unique and individual one.

is that they can transport you into the mood

That is the entire point ... a good poem creates a mood, a feeling, a moment, a thought, an experience which the reader identifies with in some way, whether or not it resonates with 'where the poet is coming from' or not is immaterial. You, the poet can not know or foresee all the ways in which a reader may or may not experience your writing. Once you set the words out there to be read you can only hope that they resonate in some way. And that is all that is important in the transaction between poet and reader. If the poet has done his or her job in crafting a picture with words there will be readers who will resonate with it.

In terms of the transaction between reader and word ... here we hope that words do resonate. It does not matter if it is a positive or negative experience so long as there is one. A 'bad' poem is one with whom the overwhelming large majority of readers do not resonate with, have a shared experience with, while a 'good' poem is one in which the majority do find some common experience.

 

[stigmaticman]

It's very important to know where i'm coming from, for it makes many of my poems more beautiful to read and enjoy. You may not know the meanings and still like the poem, when my poems usually have hidden meanings, of which the key lies within the poem itself.

it's not necessary to know, but it is vital to the potency of the words

 

[Poppy1]

Meadow I understand what you are saying, but you must agree that it would be presumptuous to state 'This is what the poet means'. I think that's the point Canuck is making. Like you I dislike formal analysis .....for this very reason.

 

[Meadow337]

It's very important to know where i'm coming from, for it makes many of my poems more beautiful to read and enjoy. You may not know the meanings and still like the poem, when my poems usually have hidden meanings, of which the key lies within the poem itself.

it's not necessary to know, but it is vital to the potency of the words

but no poem comes with a full length explanation of what the poet was thinking and feeling, where he/she was, what the exact experience was that they are writing about. It is unknowable and therefore irrelevant. And no poem should ever have to come with a full length explanation in order to be more anything.

Meadow I understand what you are saying, but you must agree that it would be presumptuous to state 'This is what the poet means'. I think that's the point Canuck is making. Like you I dislike formal analysis .....for this very reason.

I don't see why it is presumptuous to say 'this is what I think it means' for even that is entirely a personal experience. If my experience of an alarm clock is that they are annoying then my 'explanation' that you mean to write about how annoying alarm clocks is as valid as any other explanation and a good poem is open to that range of possibilities.

Formal analyses excludes other interpretations but the accepted one.

 

[stigmaticman]

but i'm coming from the heart in those poems...

the meaning is found in the many ways you read it. don't you know that i pick up just as many different views of the poems as any. i may know what inspires it, but i get a different feel the many times i read them. so, Meadow, you are absolutely right, my friend.

 

[Poppy1]

Ah, but there is a huge difference between 'This is what I think the poet means,' and 'This is what the poet means'.

 

[Meadow337]

Ah, but there is a huge difference between 'This is what I think the poet means,' and 'This is what the poet means'.

I think that difference is where the experience of the reader differs from formal analysis. Formal analysis states categorically 'this is the interpretation', 'this is how you must read it', 'this is what you must think about it'. It doesn't just limit the meaning of the poem, it limits how you should experience it as well.

The reader interacts with the words and each reader has their own interaction and much discussion can flow from each saying 'this is what I felt' as long as no-one turns around and says 'what you felt is wrong'. One of the pleasures of poetry is that each person comes away with a different (sometimes subtly) experience.

I read poems now that I absolutely hated at university because now I can just interact with them how I want to and enjoy my experience. I don't have some book telling me 'this is what it means, this is how I'm meant to feel, this is what this word means'.

It's like my experience with the word 'uttered' Stigmatician used in Amid Clouds and Streams. I know what the word means, but at that moment I was struck by the shape of the word, by the shape of the individual letters in that specific conformation ... nothing about the meaning word affected me, just its shape. The aesthetics of the shape, and how I tasted it in that moment. Yes it had a taste. It was sharp and acidic and quite changed my experience with the poem. If I was stuck on the word itself that moment would have quite lost. And I don't want to be robbed of those moments - they enlighten me and I am poorer if the limitations of understanding rob me of them because they don't fit into a conventional interpretation, or even perhaps something the poet intends.

 

[canuck]

Thank you Stigmatic for explaining the 'pantoum' form of poetry.