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Anthony Trollope

Trollope writes regarding farming:

While I was at Winchester my father’s affairs went from bad to worse. He gave up his practice at the bar, and, unfortunate that he was, took another farm. It is odd that a man should conceive,—and in this case a highly educated and a very clever man,—that farming should be a business in which he might make money without any special education or apprenticeship. Perhaps of all trades it is the one in which an accurate knowledge of what things should be done, and the best manner of doing them, is most necessary. And it is one also for success in which a sufficient capital is indispensable. He had no knowledge, and, when he took this second farm, no capital. This was the last step preparatory to his final ruin.

Nowadays, the family farms have all but vanished. There is a picturesque tourist area somewhere in Switzerland or Germany, where the government subsidized the small farms, simply to preserve the charm of the area for the sake of tourism.
 
Trollope ends his autobiography with a chronological list of every novel, together with the total money earned from each novel, totalling almost 70,000 Pounds Sterling.

He was quite proud of the total pages he produced in his lifetime.


http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/t/trollope/anthony/autobiography/chapter20.html

Names of Works.----------- Date ----Total Sums Received.
The Macdermots of Ballycloran, 1847---- £48 6 9
The Kellys and the O'Kellys,-----1848 --------123 19 5
La Vendee, ----------------1850 ---------20 0 0
The Warden,-------------- 1855 \ -------727 11 3
Barchester Towers,--------- 1857 /
The Three Clerks,------------ 1858 --------250 0 0
Doctor Thorne, ----------------1858------ ---400 0 0
The West Indies and
the Spanish Main,----------- 1859----- 250 0 0
The Bertrams,-------------- 1859 ------ 400 0 0
Castle Richmond,---------- 1860------ 600 0 0
Framley Parsonage,-------- 1861---- 1000 0 0
Tales of All Countries--,--------1861 \------ 1830 0 0
Tales of All Countries--2d---- 1863
Tales of All Countries--3d------1870 /
Orley Farm,----------------- 1862------- 3135 0 0
North America,------------ 1862-------- 1250 0 0
Rachel Ray,-------------- 1863------- 1645 0 0
The Small House at Allington, 1864------- 3000 0 0
Can You Forgive Her?----- 1864------- 3525 0 0
Miss Mackenzie,--------- 1865-------- 1300 0 0
The Belton Estate,------- 1866-------- 1757 0 0
The Claverings,------------ 1867------- 2800 0 0
The Last Chronicle of Barset, 1867------- 3000 0 0
Nina Balatka,--------------- 1867------- 450 0 0
Linda Tressel,--------------- 1868------ 450 0 0
Phineas Finn,--------------- 1869------ 3200 0 0
He Knew He Was Right,--------1869------- 3200 0 0
Brown, Jones, and Robinson, 1870-------- 600 0 0
The Vicar of Bullhampton,--- 1870-------- 2500 0 0
An Editor's Tales,----------- -1870-----------378 0 0
Caesar (Ancient Classics), -----1870 ------------0 0 0
Sir Harry Hotspur Humblethwaite1871----- 750 0 0
Ralph the Heir,------------ -1871-----------2500 0 0
The Golden Lion of Granpere, 1872 -------------550 0 0
The Eustace Diamonds,--------1873-------- 2500 0 0
Australia and New Zealand,-----1873----- -1300 0 0
Phineas Redux,----------- -1874-------- -2500 0 0
Harry Heathcote of Gangoil, -1874-------- -450 0 0
Lady Anna,---------------------1874-----------1200 0 0
The Way We Live Now,---------1875----------- 3000 0 0
The Prime Minister,-------- 1876------------ 2500 0 0
The American Senator,--- 1877------------1800 0 0
Is He Popenjoy?----------- 1878------------1600 0 0
South Africa,------------------1878------------850 0 0
John Caldigate,----------------1879 -----------1800 0 0
Sundries,----------------------7800------------ 0 0
Grand Total -----------------------------------£68,939 17 5

It will not, I am sure, be thought that, in making my boast as to the quantity, I have endeavoured to lay claim to any literary excellence. That, in the writing of books, quantity without quality is a vice and a misfortune, has been too manifestly settled to leave a doubt on such a matter. But I do lay claim to whatever merit should be accorded to me for persevering diligence in my profession. And I make the claim, not with a view to my own glory, but for the benefit of those who may read these pages, and when young may intend to follow the same career. Nulla dies sine linea. Let that be their motto. And let their work be to them as is his common work to the common labourer. No gigantic efforts will then be necessary. He need tie no wet towels round his brow, nor sit for thirty hours at his desk without moving,—as men have sat, or said that they have sat. More than nine-tenths of my literary work has been done in the last twenty years, and during twelve of those years I followed another profession. I have never been a slave to this work, giving due time, if not more than due time, to the amusements I have loved. But I have been constant,—and constancy in labour will conquer all difficulties. Gutta cavat lapidem non vi, sed saepe cadendo.

I suppose one might estimate the total words in all those novels, and then calculate how much money Trollope made per word.
 
Kenny Shovel said:
...perhaps this list illustrates the quote found on Trollope's wikipedia entry..."Of all novelists in any country, Trollope best understands the role of money. Compared with him even Balzac is a romantic." — W. H. Auden


Very good. Thanks. Most likely, it was the extreme poverty of his childhood, which he relates, that made him so conscious of the monetary aspect of writing. I do not imagine that Proust, for example, gave such careful consideration to finances.
 
Sitaram said:
Most likely, it was the extreme poverty of his childhood, which he relates, that made him so conscious of the monetary aspect of writing.

...That reminds me of a comment Micheal Caine once made about how you can never be rich enough if you've come from poverty...the quote's in this interview...

Sitaram said:
I do not imagine that Proust, for example, gave such careful consideration to finances.

...clearly you mean Proust not Prost, sometimes the two are interchanged in the minds of the easily confused...

K-S
 
Kenny Shovel said:
...That reminds me of a comment Micheal Caine once made about how you can never be rich enough if you've come from poverty...the quote's in this interview...



...clearly you mean Proust not Prost, sometimes the two are interchanged in the minds of the easily confused...

K-S


Yes, Proust, that "À la Recherche.." fellow. I did not know there was a Prost.

I know nothing of sports.

My understanding is that Proust had enough money not to worry about every shilling and farthing and pound and quid and haipenny and "God bless you."
 
...so what do you think is the better situation to produce great literature?...the writer who is comfortably well off, and can write at leisure, with no pressure to conform to what is commercial...or the starving artist?...

...or is this a false question?...is the desire, the need, to write, and the ability to do so more important...

...the main character in 'Hunger' by Knut Hamsun is driven by both literal hunger and another kind that comes from the mind rather than the body...does he have the perfect motivation?...

*gets feeling this may not be one line answer, makes space in diary to read reply*
 
Kenny Shovel said:
...so what do you think is the better situation to produce great literature?...the writer who is comfortably well off, and can write at leisure, with no pressure to conform to what is commercial...or the starving artist?...

...or is this a false question?...is the desire, the need, to write, and the ability to do so more important...

...the main character in 'Hunger' by Knut Hamsun is driven by both literal hunger and another kind that comes from the mind rather than the body...does he have the perfect motivation?...

*gets feeling this may not be one line answer, makes space in diary to read reply*

I think your question is a very valid one.

I will answer, in part, by making reference to the collected letters of Wallace Stevens. Someone asked him about a certain published poet, and Wallace Stevens said of that poet, "He does not write as though he MUST write."

Now one might take that comment to mean that the poet does not write out of economic necessity. Yet in other letters Wallace Stevens pokes fun at Carl Sandburg for sitting and counting all the checks he received from his lecture/reading tour like a greedy Jack Benny or Scrooge, counting his coins. Wallace Stevens socialized at times with both Sandburg and Robert Frost.

Wallace Stevens was vice president of an insurance company in Hartford. Many of his business associates did not realize that Stevens was a world renowned poet. Stevens wrote because he "must" write not out of economic need but out of spiritual need.

Obviously, if one depends upon their writing for income, and one is successful in a certain genre, whether that be "chick" lit, or vampires, or murder mysteries, then they are not free to do as they please, but must conform to the tastes and expectations of their consumer audience.

If my memory serves me correctly (which it often does not), Hardy was so crushed by the publics rejection of "Jude the Obscure" that he withdrew from novel writing and confined himself to poetry.

When I heard that "Jude the Obscure" was considered spicy, and scandalous, I downloaded a text copy, and did a string search on every occurrence of the word "kiss" (reasoning that where there is smoke there is fire, and where there is sex, there must be a kiss or two) but the text was clean as a whistle from my debauched 20th century perspective.

As a child, I was told that Dickens was paid by the word, which accounted for his long books.

Hemingway relates, in A Moveable Feast, how he scolded F. Scott Fitzgerald for "tweaking" short stories so they would sell better in magazines, calling him a harlot for doing so. Fitzgerald was something of a prodigal spendthrift party-boy and was always desperate for money. He made good money from magazines with the short stories. Sometimes, he would bat out a story overnight, and sell it to The Saturday Evening Post for several thousand. But Fitzgerald desired literary immortality and realized that such enduring fame would only come from novels. So in Fitzgerald, we have an example of someone who wrote short stories out of economic necessity, and novels because he "must" write.

We might discuss at length the various "musts" which are other than money. Fame in one's own lifetime is certainly one "must."

But, consider Emily Dickenson. I don't think she wrote for money, or for lasting fame. I think she wrote out of some spiritual need to express herself. Perhaps I am wrong.

Annie Proulx is another example of someone who abandoned her PhD program, feeling that there was little market in her field, and supporting herself and her children for years by writing "How To" books, and pieces for magazines like Field and Stream, under male pen names.

Only when she was in her 50s did she commence to write short stories and novels.

There was some Portuguese poet who lived in poverty, wrote in obscurity, and was only discovered and made famous posthumously, when a trunk of his writings was discovered in his rented room.


I think this is a worthwhile discussion.
 
Sitaram said:
I think your question is a very valid one.

I will answer, in part, by making reference to the collected letters of Wallace Stevens. Someone asked him about a certain published poet, and Wallace Stevens said of that poet, "He does not write as though he MUST write."

Now one might take that comment to mean that the poet does not write out of economic necessity. Yet in other letters Wallace Stevens pokes fun at Carl Sandburg for sitting and counting all the checks he received from his lecture/reading tour like a greedy Jack Benny or Scrooge, counting his coins. Wallace Stevens socialized at times with both Sandburg and Robert Frost.

Wallace Stevens was vice president of an insurance company in Hartford. Many of his business associates did not realize that Stevens was a world renowned poet. Stevens wrote because he "must" write not out of economic need but out of spiritual need.

...yes, the difference between wanting to write and having to write, and more importantly the desire to write "not out of economic need but out of spiritual need" is one I've seen expressed by a number of writers...my memory isn't the best, but I think Hamsun and John Fante (another of my favourites) were of this opinion...

Sitaram said:
Obviously, if one depends upon their writing for income, and one is successful in a certain genre, whether that be "chick" lit, or vampires, or murder mysteries, then they are not free to do as they please, but must conform to the tastes and expectations of their consumer audience.
...I'd phrase it as "they are not as free to do as they please", but I take your point...of course for many/most of these writers they choose a certain gene because it's what they enjoy, so the restrictions may be ones they are happy to except...and some writers of course enjoy the challenge of restriction, although constrained writing is another topic, and not always a satisfiying result; I've read a couple of lipogram's by George Perec, and to be honest they seemed a waste of time, his and mine...

Sitaram said:
As a child, I was told that Dickens was paid by the word, which accounted for his long books.
I wasn't aware of that, it may explain the seemingly endless description of fog in Bleak House...

...this has reminded me of the way that Jaroslav Hasek wrote the great classic of Czech literature, "The Good Soldier Svejk"...Hasek was near the end of his life and in ill health. He used a popular character from his short stories, Svejk, and serialised a novel of his adventures in the first world war, publishing parts of the book, and pocketing the money, as he went...when he died the book was already 700+ pages long and Svejk had only made it half way to the front line by train...as Hasek had been stringing the story out so that he kept getting paid...it doesn't stop the book being one of my favourites though, or being voted the best Czech novel by a panel of their critics a few years back...

Sitaram said:
Hemingway relates, in A Moveable Feast, how he scolded F. Scott Fitzgerald for "tweaking" short stories so they would sell better in magazines, calling him a harlot for doing so. Fitzgerald was something of a prodigal spendthrift party-boy and was always desperate for money. He made good money from magazines with the short stories. Sometimes, he would bat out a story overnight, and sell it to The Saturday Evening Post for several thousand. But Fitzgerald desired literary immortality and realized that such enduring fame would only come from novels. So in Fitzgerald, we have an example of someone who wrote short stories out of economic necessity, and novels because he "must" write.
...with serialisation of novels and short stories being so common in the past, it makes me wonder how many classics are not exactly as the author would have really wanted them...I wonder if alternative manuscripts are every found?...perhaps someone better informed knows if that's ever happened...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Pessoa

...this guy looks interesting, I'll add him on my amazon wish list for later purchase...

K-S
 
Oh, by the way, I think I read somewhere that James Joyce had a patron, a benefactor who provided financial support, and that he was one of the last artists to have such a benefactor.

We should include in our discussion those centuries where a patron of the arts would alleviate the writer or painter from material concerns.

I have one of those huge "Encyclopedia of James Joyce". I will look up the details there, and post. I have the same "Encyclopedia of Virginia Woolf". Those are handy books, as the give every scrap of trivial detail about the author's life and works.
 
We should really begin at the beginning, and discuss Aristotle's Metaphysics, where, on his first page, he points out that LEISURE (skolee, in Greek, from which we derive SCHOOL and Scholastic) is the prerequisite to philosophy and learning. It was only when Egypt developed enough prosperity to have a leisure class that philosophy began.

One of my teachers at St. John's, Annapolis, wanted to drive home this point, saying "Does everyone understand that if people are working 18 hours a day, seven days a week, looking at the wrong end of a team of oxen, plowing fields, that they will not have the time or energy for philosophy or art."

We should try to find out the historical first for someone who earned a living by writing.

I once found a timeline for advertising, that gave the date for the first pencil, the first newspaper which ever ran a paid advertisement, and many other interesting facts. We should look for a similar timeline for novelists.

I do know that the first book ever to be mass produced by mechanical means was the Buddhist Diamond Sutra in China in the 9th century, C.E., using woodblock printing. I have used this curious fact to my advantage in certain religious argument.

And I know that the first novel to be written on a mechanical typewriter was Tom Sawyer by Samuel Clemens.

Hmmm... I wonder, what was the first novel to be written using a computer.

The first word processing program was actually a program created to write and edit Fortran code, and some clever lazy person realized that it could also be used to dash off a letter.
 
Novels as Sermons

CHAPTER XII
ON NOVELS AND THE ART OF WRITING THEM

http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/t/trollope/anthony/autobiography/chapter12.html

Thinking of all this, as a novelist surely must do,—as I certainly have done through my whole career,—it becomes to him a matter of deep conscience how he shall handle those characters by whose words and doings he hopes to interest his readers. It will very frequently be the case that he will be tempted to sacrifice something for effect, to say a word or two here, or to draw a picture there, for which he feels that he has the power, and which when spoken or drawn would be alluring. The regions of absolute vice are foul and odious. The savour of them, till custom has hardened the palate and the nose, is disgusting. In these he will hardly tread. But there are outskirts on these regions, on which sweet-smelling flowers seem to grow; and grass to be green. It is in these border-lands that the danger lies. The novelist may not be dull. If he commit that fault he can do neither harm nor good. He must please, and the flowers and the grass in these neutral territories sometimes seem to give him so easy an opportunity of pleasing!


The writer of stories must please, or he will be nothing. And he must teach whether he wish to teach or no. How shall he teach lessons of virtue and at the same time make himself a delight to his readers? That sermons are not in themselves often thought to be agreeable we all know. Nor are disquisitions on moral philosophy supposed to be pleasant reading for our idle hours. But the novelist, if he have a conscience, must preach his sermons with the same purpose as the clergyman, and must have his own system of ethics. If he can do this efficiently, if he can make virtue alluring and vice ugly, while he charms his readers instead of wearying them, then I think Mr. Carlyle need not call him distressed, nor talk of that long ear of fiction, nor question whether he be or not the most foolish of existing mortals.

The author must please his public, if he is concerned with sales. But, he must also please the king or government, and any ecclesiastical authority which might have the ability to censure.

Certainly such considerations were of paramount importance prior to the 19th century, even for philosophers, e.g. Kant, Hobbes, etc, who dared not write something which might be perceived as seditious.

We have economic necessity as a dynamic, and also, moral or ethical concerns which, if not given due consideration, might cause the work to run through the gamut of censorship or even persecution. Such things came to an end in America with rulings which permitted the open publication of such works as Ulysses and Tropic of Cancer.

Here is something I wrote last year entitled "Authorship and Social Responsibility".

http://literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org/ftopic856.php

No point in reposting in this thread, but here is the link. I do wish I had known about the above quoted passage from Trollope when I was writing it.
 
Sitaram said:
We should really begin at the beginning, and discuss Aristotle's Metaphysics, where, on his first page, he points out that LEISURE (skolee, in Greek, from which we derive SCHOOL and Scholastic) is the prerequisite to philosophy and learning. It was only when Egypt developed enough prosperity to have a leisure class that philosophy began.

One of my teachers at St. John's, Annapolis, wanted to drive home this point, saying "Does everyone understand that if people are working 18 hours a day, seven days a week, looking at the wrong end of a team of oxen, plowing fields, that they will not have the time or energy for philosophy or art."

…but have we found the beginning?...perhaps we should say that leisure is a prerequisite to the formal or organised development of philosophy…as surely a peasant sheep herder from anytime in history has had opportunity to ponder the meaning of it all?...and I would also think that leisure existed in a form pre-farming…the invention of crude tools with which to hunt and kill animals would allow humans to, relatively quickly, obtain enough food to sustain him for some time…TV documentaries on various ‘lost tribes’ seem to confirm that they have a concept of leisure, and any religion however primitive it may seem, and that is a matter of perception I guess, indicates an attempt to understand the world…so perhaps the phrase should be amended to something like “leisure time and a conscious desire to rationalise and understand the world are prerequisites to the formal or organised development of philosophy”…or are we wandering off topic already?...

Sitaram said:
We should try to find out the historical first for someone who earned a living by writing.
…but we will almost certainly never know this…and it probably depends on what we mean by “earn a living from writing”…as soon as the concept of physically recording information was introduced, I’m guessing way before paper, people would be employed to do so…but this may not be what you meant…
 
I find these several paragraphs from my essay Authorship and Social Responsibility useful to excerpt and repost here, in relation to what Trollope states about novels as sermons.

I do hope my words will be taken in a purely literary context and not seen as religious or political statements.

http://literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org/ftopic856.php

Perhaps it is far more accurate to observe that each author, whether of books or paintings or theories in physics and math, is driven more by a quest for the power of recognition than by some altruistic notion of social responsibility. Authors and creators are most driven by a eudaimonic inspiration or compulsion which drives them mercilessly and relentlessly towards the act of creation, and often, in that process, alienates the author from society as an eccentric rebel outcast.

If one looks at popular authors and artists like Picasso, Hemingway, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Proust, Rimbaud, Baudelaire, Thomas Dylan, and many others, one sees that they are rebels, renegades, misfits, alcoholics, recluses. We see that the worlds of imagination which they create in their writings and art are forms of escape from reality and everyday responsibilities of a good citizen.

We easily come to see society and the state, not in their day to day reality, but in the fictional picture which is painted for us by novelists and philosophers and historians. We romanticize our notion of the state until we become like America, carrying its holy grail of democracy and freedom to the four corners of the globe through diplomacy or force, to the willing and unwilling alike. As social activists, driven by our ideologies we become Christs running about everywhere seeking out the largest cross, and then gathering about us a reluctant crowd of Herods. [And why does Vonnegut come to my mind as I re-read this particular paragraph?]



In light of the above considerations, I must personally conclude that the notion of social responsibility of the author is something alien and unknown to the author, imposed posthumously by a reading public. Responsibility, if it lies anywhere at all, lies in the appetites and demands of the consumer public, who clamor for an endless stream of murders, rapes, cataclysms, wars, monsters and even alien invasions from outer space. Our true responsibility is to our own inner space first. If we personally make that inner space of the heart in order, then the orderliness of society will perhaps follow more naturally. Perhaps the real truth is that both religion and politics are the opiates of the soul, lulling it into complacency, apathy and indifference.
 
Sitaram said:
The author must please his public, if he is concerned with sales. But, he must also please the king or government, and any ecclesiastical authority which might have the ability to censure.

...and to come back to an earlier point, perhaps also please his sponsor...

...all this may suggest a more pure path, one where the author is free to write only what he wishes, but this is also not totally desirable...as for every 'Ulysses’ there must be thousands of books that are self-indulgent nonsense...perhaps the desire for there to be some readership, however small, can have the effect of focusing an author into producing a far superior work?...

Edit: "Perhaps it is far more accurate to observe that each author, whether of books or paintings or theories in physics and math, is driven more by a quest for the power of recognition than by some altruistic notion of social responsibility." - this was the most interesting line, for me, in your article...I guess it sits with my feeling that authors want some readership, however small...


btw: other people can wade in on this if they want...Sitaram seems determined to take me further and further out to sea until I'm out of my depth!...thinking about it, that's probably already happened!...
 
Kenny Shovel said:
Other people can wade in on this if they want...Sitaram seems determined to take me further and further out to sea until I'm out of my depth!...thinking about it, that's probably already happened!...

This certainly isn't some kind of contest for me. I simply like to think and write about such things. It is good exercise, and it forces me to search further and think harder.


Sadly, I find very few people who have the attention span or discipline or inclination to follow anything or pursue anything in depth. I was surprised you accompanied me even this far with the topic. I though perhaps you were enjoying this as well.

On the Internet in general, I find far too many smiley faces and LOLs and ROFLMAO's ad infinitum and ad nauseum, and far too little depth and tenacity of inquiry.

If this thread and my posts are annoying, I will certainly stop posting additional thoughts on the questions you have raised here in this thread, but continue writing and thinking on them privately. I shall continue to post some interesting excerpts from Trollope's autobiography as I read, just in case they prove interesting to someone else, and inspire them to look further into Trollope.


I don't worry about how many people are going to plow through a thread and read everything, as long as I feel there is at least one who is interested.

Plus, remember that all these threads go into the search engines, and you never know what lurkers might be drawn to a message board because of a search on some particular topic.

We will see if anyone else displays some interest in any of the topics in this thread.

I thought it might be refreshing to look at the life and personality of someone like Trollope, and have a free on-line text to study as well.

It was my intention to simply read though the autobiography and post some interesting passages with some commentary. You are the one who chose to pursue this particular line of inquiry, asking me questions, and I went along and obliged you with replies. For my part, I found it enjoyable to be so engaged. If you are going to turn around and complain about it, well, next time I shall know better than to take your questions so seriously.
 
...peel yourself of the cross Sitaram...if I added the dreaded ;) ;) ;) to the end of "Other people can wade in on this if they want...Sitaram seems determined to take me further and further out to sea until I'm out of my depth!...thinking about it, that's probably already happened!..." would it tip you off that this was a jokey invitation for other people to join in an interesting discussion, rather than regard it as a conversation, not to be interupted...

Sitaram said:
I was surprised you accompanied me even this far with the topic.
...I promise not to faint if you use multi-syllable words if you get back on track with the discussion...

...new balls, your serve...
 
I am pressed for time today, so I shall not quote the source in Trollope's autobiography, but he speaks of his unfulfilled ambition to write a history of the English novel. He proposed to start with Robinson Crusoe.

This roused my curiousity. I know that Tales of Gengi is sometimes cited as the very first novel (though not and English novel, of course), while others trace it back to Petronius' Satyricon.

Wikipedia has this to say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novel

Happy surfing!
 
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