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Herman Melville: Moby Dick

True@1stLight

New Member
Writing a term paper on the simularity of Melville's story created in Moby Dick to the world as it was seen through Hobbes' eyes in Leviathan and his solutions to the problem of human nature. Basically the possibility of overlapping politcial philosophy from Hobbes into the story of Moby Dick. I've come up with plenty of strikingly surreal comparisons.

However, if anyone has read both of these books and has any comments in either direction they are able to make I would be interested to here it, and may even cite you in my paper if I find something useful ;). Have a g'day all.
 
what can i say
when i got to the part where it starts talking about all the different kind of whales i quited reading. so i better bought the movie which i havent seen yet.
 
Heh, yes Melville can get quite descriptive. However, if you don't enjoy that stuff I encourage you to skip those chapters, as they are easy to spot, and read the rest. I found it to be quite a good book, with a few amazingly written chapters knocking me on my ass in a manner of speaking.

-True
 
Homoeroticism in Moby Dick

As raised in another thread, here is the beginning of a discussion about homoerotic subtexts in Moby Dick, and possibly other literature if the discussion goes that way.

I assume most people know about this already. I raised it in the other thread only to explain that the romance between the men is the main reason I enjoyed the book, which otherwise is a classic "guy" adventure.




First, a disclaimer: In 19th-Century America (I don't happen to know about other countries, though I would like to), "sex" fell more vaguely on the whole spectrum of physical and emotional affection, so a lot of the modern discussion of homosexuality is anachronistic. Melville almost certainly had sexual experiences with men, but he was also immersed in the ideas of the time that made a whole spiritual thing out of sexual relations. Like Hawthorne, Emerson, Whitman, and others, a lot of his sexual references are figurative.

With that out of the way:

Ishmael and Queequeg spend a couple of days at an inn getting to know each other, adjusting to each other's ways, spending nights and mornings with legs and arms intertwined, and finally having a pagan "marriage."

They go on a voyage together, not to any actual destination, but out to sea in a miniature world where women are left behind. There is constant wordplay on the hunt for sperm. The chapter "A Squeeze of the Hand" is an allegory on sensual play among men, well lubricated with whale oil (again, "sperm").

Ahab is repeatedly described as unmasted and unmanned. This mostly has to do with the leg he lost, of course, but there may be hints that he lost more than his leg. Publishing sensibilities of the day, however, would have prevented those hints from being clearer; but in any case, this "unmanned" captain, no longer able to relate intimately with other men, is willing to send his crew to their deaths.

There's more. A zillion studies (yes, that's the exact number) have looked at this, and I don't want to plagiarize.

Anyway--discussion?
 
Mari said:
First, a disclaimer: In 19th-Century America (I don't happen to know about other countries, though I would like to), "sex" fell more vaguely on the whole spectrum of physical and emotional affection, so a lot of the modern discussion of homosexuality is anachronistic. Melville almost certainly had sexual experiences with men, but he was also immersed in the ideas of the time that made a whole spiritual thing out of sexual relations. Like Hawthorne, Emerson, Whitman, and others, a lot of his sexual references are figurative.

Anyway--discussion?

Well done, Mari! People forget that it wasn't that long ago sexuality in nearly any form could prevent a book from being published, "Lady Chatterly" being probably the most famous example and consider how tame it is compared to what Lenny discusses in his "smut" thread. Also, homosexuality was often seen as something criminal, and thus references to it had to be put even further "between the lines," which can leave modern readers thinking to themselves "does that mean what I think it means?" -- yes, Virginia, often it does!
 
Mari said:
I assume most people know about this already. I raised it in the other thread only to explain that the romance between the men is the main reason I enjoyed the book, which otherwise is a classic "guy" adventure.
Thanks for this thread, Mari. I don't think most people know this, unless they studied Moby Dick at the uni/college level. I read Moby Dick when I was very young and all that subtext went completely over my head. However, now that you bring up the examples, it's one of those 'duh, why didn't I think of it before' things. Always learning, constantly re-learning.

ell

Time for a re-read
 
Thanks for this Mari!

I studied 19th century women's literature, should have been studying Moby Dick obviously! Much more fun!
It's been a while since I read it and I WILL go back and read it again...
PS Is it slightly infantile to suggest that maybe the title is a bit of a giveaway? :D
 
I've been trying to hunt around for my copy of "The Scarlet Letter." It's been years since I read it, but it seems to me the was a little sumpin'-sumpin' goin' on in the subtext between Dimmesdale and Chillingsworth. I'll have to take some time to see if I can find something that directly backs that up besides my own naughty imagination.
 
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