i just found out about R.A salvator and terry goodkind

[huxley]

what are the best books of R.A salvator and terry goodkind

from what i know is that salvator is more in a tolkien style of fantasy books.


thanks

 

[Self]

Hey!
Concerning RASalvatore, I would read The Crystal Shard, the 1st book of the Icewind Dale Trilogy set in the Forgotten Realms. He writes many other books based on a character from this series, so if you like it, you're set.

As for Goodkind, good luck! Hope you enjoy it more than I did.

 

[GOLLUM]

Hey!
Concerning RASalvatore, I would read The Crystal Shard, the 1st book of the Icewind Dale Trilogy set in the Forgotten Realms. He writes many other books based on a character from this series, so if you like it, you're set.

As for Goodkind, good luck! Hope you enjoy it more than I did.

Yes basically his original Icewind Dale trilogy and Dark Elf trilogy are his best efforts. Having said that the books are very generic and highly predictable and don't exactly inspire one to any great heights although he has a certain skill in describing battle scenes and one-to-one combat.

I couldn't get past the first book in Goodkind's Sword Of Truth series, pretty woeful stuff IMO and personally there's so much better quality out there in fantasy and SF you may be wasting your time with his stuff...

 

[Billy]

I wouldn't say that Salvitore is anything like Tolkien, really. I enjoyed reading his books, but you have to remember that they are fun. They are not great pieces of literature, so if you start them expecting that, you'll be very disappointed.

 

[Ainulindale]

Time to do my last good deed of 2005 (so what if it's my first !)

Avoid Goodkind.

 

[CattiGuen]

i hate it when people start talking about how salvatore is "just fun" reading and not a "real piece of literature". the point of reading is for fun, first and foremost (especially when it comes to a fantasy/adventure/sci-fi novel). whoever expects to get anything more than pure pleasure from this genre is not the ripest melon of the bunch. I thoroughly enjoyed the icewinddale trilogy and the dark elf trilogy. the legacy of the drow series is darker in themes and setting (literally). I've read all the drizzt books (homeland and the legacy both 3 times!) but if youre just looking for a quick fantasy read then try the crystal shard (the first in the icewinddale trilogy) and if you want more, continue the trilogy.

 

[Spineshank]

i hate it when people start talking about how salvatore is "just fun" reading and not a "real piece of literature". the point of reading is for fun, first and foremost (especially when it comes to a fantasy/adventure/sci-fi novel). whoever expects to get anything more than pure pleasure from this genre is not the ripest melon of the bunch. I thoroughly enjoyed the icewinddale trilogy and the dark elf trilogy. the legacy of the drow series is darker in themes and setting (literally). I've read all the drizzt books (homeland and the legacy both 3 times!) but if youre just looking for a quick fantasy read then try the crystal shard (the first in the icewinddale trilogy) and if you want more, continue the trilogy.

Right on, I am reading homeland right now by RA Salvatore and i love the book, yeah its a fantasy adventure which is supposed to be fun right? Does the story always have to make you think, that is the reason i like fantasy, its an enjoyable rid ei dont mind going on often. Heck if it wasnt for RA Salvatore i dont know that i would be into fantasy as much as i am in now, in my opinion his Drizzt books can't be beat, i've read some i enjoy just as much, but rarely are they beat. I'd say read RA Salvatore and you can take or leave Goodkind.

 

[Billy]

i hate it when people start talking about how salvatore is "just fun" reading and not a "real piece of literature". the point of reading is for fun, first and foremost (especially when it comes to a fantasy/adventure/sci-fi novel). whoever expects to get anything more than pure pleasure from this genre is not the ripest melon of the bunch. I thoroughly enjoyed the icewinddale trilogy and the dark elf trilogy. the legacy of the drow series is darker in themes and setting (literally). I've read all the drizzt books (homeland and the legacy both 3 times!) but if youre just looking for a quick fantasy read then try the crystal shard (the first in the icewinddale trilogy) and if you want more, continue the trilogy.

I'm not sure why you hate it when people say that Savitore is fun when you just agreed with it. I am not putting Salvitore down. Like you, I have read his books and enjoyed them. In fact, now days, I tend to only read things for fun. If it's too much like hard work I don't tend to bother with it. No matter what your opinions I don't see how you can hate people saying something that you seem to agree with. Salvitore is an entertaining writer, but the Drizzt books were writeen for TSR and Wizards of the Coast and you would probably be aware of the restrictions they place on their authors. So for this reason I don't think it is possible to call Salvitore's work great literature, but it is definitely fun.

 

[GOLLUM]

I'm not sure why you hate it when people say that Savitore is fun when you just agreed with it. I am not putting Salvitore down. Like you, I have read his books and enjoyed them....So for this reason I don't think it is possible to call Salvitore's work great literature, but it is definitely fun.

I tend to agree with you a bit Billy, Salvatore has a certain entertainment value but could hardly be compared to great literature, not with the likes of Wolfe, Bakker, Martin, Erikson, Calvino, Harrison, Mieville et al.. to call upon anyway.

 

[Ainulindale]

I think the implication that more thoughtful forms of writing are not read for fun is the most over abused element used when arguing the merits of a comparitvely simpler book with less ambition behind it creatively.

People don't read literature beause they are trying to bore themselves to death, they read it because they like it as well.

I read something like James Joyce for the same reasons I read Comic books - for fun. The tendency to relate a book that causes you to think with 'no fun' speaks volumes about something much larger than book preference in my mind.

 

[huxley]

any suggestion on fantasy books ?, like tolkien ,
some books i injoyed the hobbit , lotr,

any good books in the first person ?,thanks

 

[Ainulindale]

any good books in the first person ?,thanks

I think the ebst first peson application I have read was Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. i also ejoyed (even if flawed) Steph Swainston's The Year of Our War. A popula rfirst person author (and perhaps the one most risk free for a Tolkien fan) are the works by robin Hobb, starting with her Farseer Trilogy. Although I think Wolfe is by far the best out of this group, depending on what your used to reading he may not be as accesble, as he is a far more complex writer than anything Tolkien ever attemtpted, employing stream of concious style writing at times.

I also would think a fan of any sub-gerne would enjoy Roger Zelazny's Chronicles of Amber, via the first person POV of Corwin.

 

[CattiGuen]

I'm not sure why you hate it when people say that Savitore is fun when you just agreed with it. I am not putting Salvitore down. Like you, I have read his books and enjoyed them. In fact, now days, I tend to only read things for fun. If it's too much like hard work I don't tend to bother with it. No matter what your opinions I don't see how you can hate people saying something that you seem to agree with. Salvitore is an entertaining writer, but the Drizzt books were writeen for TSR and Wizards of the Coast and you would probably be aware of the restrictions they place on their authors. So for this reason I don't think it is possible to call Salvitore's work great literature, but it is definitely fun.

what i meant was that the people that say he's "just fun" and "not real literature" tend to make those remarks to belittle him as an author and not understand that he is a "fantasy author". you simply cant compare salvatore to say, faulkner or vonnegut because they write completely different in styles and for different reasons. salvatore is pure pleasure reading and when some one makes a comment about salvatore not being the greatest author because of the genre that he writes in, it angers me. literary snobs can bugger off!

 

[Jemima Aslana]

Fact is, however, even within the genre Salvatore writes in he's not the greatest author. Like most of the other FR authors he has simple plotlines - much simpler than many other fantasy authors, he has flat characters - even flatter than those of many other authors.

Sometimes the people who say Salvatore is "only for fun" do so with the complete understanding and awareness that he's a fantasy author.

I miss good literature in the fantasy genre, 'cause I'd like to read that, but when people like me who think RAS' writings are a tad too simple are called 'snobs' it tends to just bar off the fantasy genre from ever receiving any recognition for the potential it actually has.

I have yet to see anyone in this thread call RAS a bad writer because he writes fantasy, what I have seen is people saying that others within the same genre are better.

Why is it that we may not judge RAS on his being an author? Why do we have to consider that he's a "fantasy author"? He's still an author...

 

[GOLLUM]

I miss good literature in the fantasy genre, 'cause I'd like to read that, but when people like me who think RAS' writings are a tad too simple are called 'snobs' it tends to just bar off the fantasy genre from ever receiving any recognition for the potential it actually has.

Well you may want to check out fantasy writers Gene Wolfe, M. John Harrison, Italo Calvino, China Mieville and I'm reliably told Jaff Vandermeer and to a lesser extent Janny Wurts, George RR Martin and Seven Erikson as they're all very fine writers IMHO...

 

[Billy]

I think the implication that more thoughtful forms of writing are not read for fun is the most over abused element used when arguing the merits of a comparitvely simpler book with less ambition behind it creatively.

People don't read literature beause they are trying to bore themselves to death, they read it because they like it as well.

I read something like James Joyce for the same reasons I read Comic books - for fun. The tendency to relate a book that causes you to think with 'no fun' speaks volumes about something much larger than book preference in my mind.

Hmm, let me see. I enjoy reading all types of books, but I find some to be more 'fun' than others. It's like I thoroughly enjoy going on a long bushwalk and experiencing all that nature has to offer me. It is a very nice experience. However, it is not something I would say is 'fun'. Enjoyable, yes, but fun, no. For fun I would much rather be surfing at the beach. You see I am not saying reading good literature is not enjoyable, but for me it is not fun. I guess, also that because I do have to read so much good literature for my work, I do sometimes tend to associate it with work and that can take the 'fun' out of it. However at the same time, I find Jane Austen fun, whereas I find Joseph Conrad enjoyable, but not fun. So perhaps it would be better to actually ask me what I mean next time, rather than making such huge assumptions about people who view things a little differently to you.

what i meant was that the people that say he's "just fun" and "not real literature" tend to make those remarks to belittle him as an author and not understand that he is a "fantasy author". you simply cant compare salvatore to say, faulkner or vonnegut because they write completely different in styles and for different reasons. salvatore is pure pleasure reading and when some one makes a comment about salvatore not being the greatest author because of the genre that he writes in, it angers me. literary snobs can bugger off!

I think you understand now that I was not, in any way, trying to belittle him. Fantasy has great potential and it disappoints me that so many people refuse to give it any credit because it is simply fantasy. There are some very good fantasy authors, as Gollum has pointed out several times. Unfortunately they are associated with the 'fun' fantasy novels and not given the credit they deserve. Look at Tolkien. He is more commonly praised for the creation of the whole world of Middle Earth and it's history, and all things related to it, than his writing. I wonder if this would be so if he wrote in some other genre. So often I read where people talk about Tolkien saying that he really isn't such a great author and in his defence someone will say, "But you have to give him credit for the creation of Middle Earth". Yes, we do, but he was also a good story teller. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that recognising the difference between good literature and not so good literature does not make someone a literary snob. It just makes them able to tell the difference.

 

[Jemima Aslana]

Well you may want to check out fantasy writers Gene Wolfe, M. John Harrison, Italo Calvino, China Mieville and I'm reliably told Jaff Vandermeer and to a lesser extent Janny Wurts, George RR Martin and Seven Erikson as they're all very fine writers IMHO...

I have Erikson's Gardens and Martin's Thrones lying around, but except for Wurts and Miéville I haven't even heard of the others. Access to fantasy books is crappy here in DK, it's nigh impossible to find anything really good on our shelves, so I buy what I want on Amazon and eBay but there you seldom find anything but exactly the book or author you searched for because you can't browse shelves as you can with a real bookshop.

I'll write down your recommendations and check them out.

@ Billy

I don't think Ainulindale was directing that at you. While yes, some prefer the fun of fantasy to the fun of literature it really isn't lovely being told that when I read something that isn't fantasy I can't possibly be reading it for fun - it's as if fantasy at times has the monopoly on 'fun'. I know you well enough to know you're not of that opinion, but that is sadly the vibe I sometimes pick up from other fantasy lovers. They think we can't understand how much fun it is to read fantasy - we can, I think it's great fun too - when it's them who don't understand how we can possibly find it fun to read, say, Dostoyevksy or Joyce.

 

[Billy]

@ Billy

I don't think Ainulindale was directing that at you. While yes, some prefer the fun of fantasy to the fun of literature it really isn't lovely being told that when I read something that isn't fantasy I can't possibly be reading it for fun - it's as if fantasy at times has the monopoly on 'fun'. I know you well enough to know you're not of that opinion, but that is sadly the vibe I sometimes pick up from other fantasy lovers. They think we can't understand how much fun it is to read fantasy - we can, I think it's great fun too - when it's them who don't understand how we can possibly find it fun to read, say, Dostoyevksy or Joyce.

Yes, I understand what you are saying Jem. I apologise Ainu, if I misunderstood your post.

 

[GOLLUM]

There are some very good fantasy authors, as Gollum has pointed out several times. Unfortunately they are associated with the 'fun' fantasy novels and not given the credit they deserve.

Well if you're referring to mainstream society I'd have to agree with you to an extent. I've noticed and I think this is still a trend that people who read "fantasy" are looked upon as being a bit strange or on the fringe and to somehow not be reading something that is deemed as being worthwhile or valid by the majority. At least that's what I've noticed, which to me is a real shame because there are a number of very fine writers in the Genre who would stack up quite well against other writers in other Genres IMO.

I have Erikson's Gardens and Martin's Thrones lying around, but except for Wurts and Miéville I haven't even heard of the others. Access to fantasy books is crappy here in DK, it's nigh impossible to find anything really good on our shelves, so I buy what I want on Amazon and eBay but there you seldom find anything but exactly the book or author you searched for because you can't browse shelves as you can with a real bookshop. I'll write down your recommendations and check them out.

Well yes hopefully you'll like what you read. Italo Calvino has written some very good stuff so maybe try Invisible Cities and If on A Winters Night. Gene Wolfe would be considered a great writer irrespective of the genre he writes in and as such is viewed by several critics as one of America's finest modern writers. You could do worse than try his classic first person narrative Book Of The New Sun, or some of his other excellent works like Latro In The Mist, Five Heads Of Cerberus, Peace or his current Wizard duology. Mieville has his classic New Corobozun trilogy starting with Perdido Station or his earlier work King Rat to name jut two. For M John Harrison he's written other stuff but I checked out his collection of stories Viriconium (part of the fantasy Masterwork series) and it's brilliant prose! so I'd assume his more recent work is also very good. Janny Wurts can be a bit slow in terms of plot development but her writing is quality. Her current Wars Of Light and Shadow is a mutli-volume epic, so you could check out her standalone To Ride Hell's Chasmto get a taste of her style. Apart from Erikson and Martin you should also check out R Scott Bakker's Prince Of Nothing trilogy, these are the best 3 EPIC series I've probably read, certainly in recent times. Steven Erikson is my favourite fantasy author of all time, each book improves upon the last albeit all are excellent, worldbuilding at its best. I know little of Jeff Vandermeer other than he's apparently very good, so Ainulindale will be able to tell you more there if you ask but I'm ordering in his collection of stories City Of Saints and Madmen which I understand is a great collection.

Hope this helps in your ordering and please let me know what you think...

 

[Ainulindale]

Why is it that we may not judge RAS on his being an author? Why do we have to consider that he's a "fantasy author"? He's still an author...

I agee with that thought completely, and not exclusively to Mr. Salvatore, whom I respect even if I don not enjoy his fiction as I used to.

Hmm, let me see. I enjoy reading all types of books, but I find some to be more 'fun' than others. It's like I thoroughly enjoy going on a long bushwalk and experiencing all that nature has to offer me. It is a very nice experience. However, it is not something I would say is 'fun'. Enjoyable, yes, but fun, no. For fun I would much rather be surfing at the beach. You see I am not saying reading good literature is not enjoyable, but for me it is not fun. I guess, also that because I do have to read so much good literature for my work, I do sometimes tend to associate it with work and that can take the 'fun' out of it. However at the same time, I find Jane Austen fun, whereas I find Joseph Conrad enjoyable, but not fun. So perhaps it would be better to actually ask me what I mean next time, rather than making such huge assumptions about people who view things a little differently to you.

......

I don't think Ainulindale was directing that at you. While yes, some prefer the fun of fantasy to the fun of literature it really isn't lovely being told that when I read something that isn't fantasy I can't possibly be reading it for fun - it's as if fantasy at times has the monopoly on 'fun'. I know you well enough to know you're not of that opinion, but that is sadly the vibe I sometimes pick up from other fantasy lovers. They think we can't understand how much fun it is to read fantasy - we can, I think it's great fun too - when it's them who don't understand how we can possibly find it fun to read, say, Dostoyevksy or Joyce.

Exactly. As clearly stated as when I said it the first time Thanks.

To add to some of the titles Gollum mentions I would reccomend authors like Jonathan Lethen, and Michael Chabon, some of Gabriel Garica Marquez's and Paul Auster's work. These are some clear SF or Fantasy works here that even some fans of these authors don't want to admit are evident. it amazes me that some can look at Bulgakov's Master and Maragarita and claim it's not a work of the fantastic, when clealy it is in its best application, to offer a view a poiniant view point through fantasy. I would also include writers like Jeffrey Ford and Lucius Shepard, Maureen Mchugh, Kelly Link, there are literarly dozens of others.

know little of Jeff Vandermeer other than he's apparently very good, so Ainulindale will be able to tell you more there if you ask but I'm ordering in his collection of stories City Of Saints and Madmen which I understand is a great collection.

City of Saints and Madmen is best described as a mosaic novel, in the tradition of Keith Robert's Pavane, and not really a true collection. Jeff does have an incredible collection, with his Secet Life.