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Kurt Vonnegut
- Thread starter True@1stLight
- Start date
Martin
Active Member
I'm very bad at dissecting books myself, so I always 'just' read a book at face value - nevertheless, I really enjoy Vonnegut, so that could mean two things:
- There are no deeper meanings (besides the obvious critique on society and all that).
- or it is written in such a way that even an oaf like me can distill the deeper intentions.
Your guess is as good as mine.
Cheers
RitalinKid
New Member
My girlfriend jokingly called Vonnegut a "pinko commie sympathizer". It was good for a laugh, but in God Bless You, the real issue seemed to be money and the power it can have over your life. I'm starting a discussion thread on God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater.
Harry Gamblor
New Member
Hm, so far i have only read one book by him, "Slaughterhouse 5", and it's among my favorite books. But at the moment i still have a huge pile of books to read, but i'll definitely read more from Vonnegut sooner or later!
RitalinKid
New Member
I've now read Mr. Rosewater and Cat's Cradle, and I'm halfway through Slaughterhouse Five. I have to say that Vonnegut is like crack for me. I don't want to put it down. I like his insights, his humor and his way of centering a story around a serious topic in a wacky manner. It's both entertaining and thought provoking. Books-A-Million didn't have Sirens of Titan, or I'd have it right now too.
bobbyburns
New Member
I think this was vonnegut at his best.
RitalinKid said:
RitalinKid
New Member
Whew! Just finished Slaughterhouse-Five. The end was a sobering finale to a comically tragic rollercoaster ride, but he could've made it more so. I didn't want to put the book down, except when I was so tired that I had to.
Vonnegut is hailed as a great "anti-war" writer. I don't find it that way. I think he just wants people to know that there is no glory in war. He seems to say that we've always warred, and war is terrible and stupid, the same as people can be, but just from the voice he writes with, I gather that he acknowledges that making war is something we've always done and that the chances of us stopping are slim. His view seems very realistic, not pleading with us to stop war as if we could just end all fighting tomorrow. In Slaughterhouse Five, his character, Billy, doesn't blame the people who made the decision to bomb Dresden or the pilots that dropped the bombs. Billy accepts that it's the way that moment was "structured" to be. Even though he's alluding to the Tralfamadorian idea of time, I think he's saying that warfare is just part of humanity, which means there's nobody to blame but ourselves, and yes, bobby-to-the-b, if you read this, that would be a very Krishnamurti-an idea
, which made me wonder if Vonnegut had read any of Krishnamurti's books.
Vonnegut is hailed as a great "anti-war" writer. I don't find it that way. I think he just wants people to know that there is no glory in war. He seems to say that we've always warred, and war is terrible and stupid, the same as people can be, but just from the voice he writes with, I gather that he acknowledges that making war is something we've always done and that the chances of us stopping are slim. His view seems very realistic, not pleading with us to stop war as if we could just end all fighting tomorrow. In Slaughterhouse Five, his character, Billy, doesn't blame the people who made the decision to bomb Dresden or the pilots that dropped the bombs. Billy accepts that it's the way that moment was "structured" to be. Even though he's alluding to the Tralfamadorian idea of time, I think he's saying that warfare is just part of humanity, which means there's nobody to blame but ourselves, and yes, bobby-to-the-b, if you read this, that would be a very Krishnamurti-an idea
, which made me wonder if Vonnegut had read any of Krishnamurti's books.
RitalinKid
New Member
Vonnegut on Writing
I'm in the middle of a Vonnegut marathon, and I found this quote tonight.
"This is what I find most encouraging about the writing trades. They allow mediocre people who are patient and industrious to revise their stupidity, to edit themselves into something like intelligence. they* also allow lunatics to seem saner than sane." -- Vonnegut from Wampeters, Foma, and Granfalloons
* Intentionally uncapitalized.
This is also what I like about online discussion forums. I couldn't have realtime disussions like I have on this board. I'm a bumbling idiot who uses the wrong words and phrases constantly. Editing helps suppress some of my stupidity. I might try my hand at writing sooner or later.
I'm in the middle of a Vonnegut marathon, and I found this quote tonight.
"This is what I find most encouraging about the writing trades. They allow mediocre people who are patient and industrious to revise their stupidity, to edit themselves into something like intelligence. they* also allow lunatics to seem saner than sane." -- Vonnegut from Wampeters, Foma, and Granfalloons
* Intentionally uncapitalized.
This is also what I like about online discussion forums. I couldn't have realtime disussions like I have on this board. I'm a bumbling idiot who uses the wrong words and phrases constantly. Editing helps suppress some of my stupidity. I might try my hand at writing sooner or later.
dolz
New Member
My dad gave me Slaughter House 5 to read when I was about 12. I thought it was brilliant and then I read The Sirens of Titan.
I haven't read Galapagos yet but its on my list now to be honest I hadn't heard of it.
I was on the train one morning and there was a copy of Breakfast of Champions left on the seat so I've read that too.
(Going off the point slightly) It also gave me the idea of leaving books on the train. The morning I found Breakfast of Champions I was in a bad mood and it really cheered me up. So for a while I left books I'd finished on the train hoping someone who would appreciate it would find it.
I haven't read Galapagos yet but its on my list now to be honest I hadn't heard of it.
I was on the train one morning and there was a copy of Breakfast of Champions left on the seat so I've read that too.
(Going off the point slightly) It also gave me the idea of leaving books on the train. The morning I found Breakfast of Champions I was in a bad mood and it really cheered me up. So for a while I left books I'd finished on the train hoping someone who would appreciate it would find it.
Martin
Active Member
Cool idea - I'd do it too, if I weren't too attached to my books.
You should give bookcrossing.com a try - it's a site built up by people leaving (or releasing) books in the wild.
Cheers
You should give bookcrossing.com a try - it's a site built up by people leaving (or releasing) books in the wild.
Cheers
RitalinKid
New Member
I had two cups of coffee last night at around 8:30. Normally coffee doesn't really affect me, but I didn't go to sleep last night until around 4:00 a.m. During that time, I found out that I have a common musical interest with Vonnegut. Apparently, he's a Phish fan. Scroll down to the bottom of the link below, and you'll find that he chose to draw a fictitious album cover for them. Pretty nifty. There's even a pic with him and the drummer and some other unidentified people. Apparently Vonnegut's inspired some other musical art too. It's weird. I liked Phish long before I knew who Vonnegut was, but here we are together, fellow Phish fans. I spared you all from the obligatory "ph" substitutions. Okay, I'm going to go sleepwalk through the day now. Hopefully, I can go on autopilot today.
http://www.vonnegut.com/news.asp
Oh, yeah, cool link Martin. There's a similar site where you can mark and release dollar bills, WheresGeorge.com . You'd be amazed at how fast money gets around, the whore.
http://www.vonnegut.com/news.asp
Oh, yeah, cool link Martin. There's a similar site where you can mark and release dollar bills, WheresGeorge.com . You'd be amazed at how fast money gets around, the whore.
dolz
New Member
Martin said:
Excellent site thanks
i'm pretty attatched to my books too and I love owning them but I also go to a lot of second hand bookshops so I know I can pick up stuff I've owned before easily. I never pass on the ones with importance (a dylan thomas poetry book which i will never ever ever get rid of and my first copy of slaughter house 5)
RitalinKid
New Member
I just finished Mother Night. That could be my favorite Vonnegut novel. However, there were no aliens or extra dimensions, which is different from the other books of his I've read. Mother Night is about life of a WWII Amercian intelligence asset before, during and after the war.
Vonnegut does an excellent job at taking the ideas of right and wrong and completely obliterating them. He brings it all together around page 183 when the main character, Howard Campbell, Jr., comes into contact with his controller to find out what all he's transmitted unkowingly, including information about himself. He finds out about how many people have known about him and how many people have died protecting him. Campbell excels at everything he does, and in the end, he accomplished his job as a spy but seems to have failed himself as he becomes a wanted war criminal, indirectly responsible for the actions of Nazi Germany.
I give the book 5/5 stars. I was sick today, and I still couldn't put it down. It's rearry, rearry good.
Vonnegut does an excellent job at taking the ideas of right and wrong and completely obliterating them. He brings it all together around page 183 when the main character, Howard Campbell, Jr., comes into contact with his controller to find out what all he's transmitted unkowingly, including information about himself. He finds out about how many people have known about him and how many people have died protecting him. Campbell excels at everything he does, and in the end, he accomplished his job as a spy but seems to have failed himself as he becomes a wanted war criminal, indirectly responsible for the actions of Nazi Germany.
I give the book 5/5 stars. I was sick today, and I still couldn't put it down. It's rearry, rearry good.
Mari
New Member
I'm coming to this discussion a little late, so I just want to interject that I thought Timequake was a lovely book. It was his swan song, and I found it more personal than most of his others. I really heard his voice and felt that I was getting to know him at this stage in his life.
My second favorite of his is Breakfast of Champions, a just plain funny book. My third favorite is Deadeye Dick, compellingly depressive, and I believe under-recognized among his works.
A few I had trouble even finishing: Bluebeard, Mother Night, Jailbird, and Gallapagos.
SH5 is not among my favorites of his, but it is an important classic that everyone should read anyway. If you like this book, by the way, you will like his essays.
My two cents.
My second favorite of his is Breakfast of Champions, a just plain funny book. My third favorite is Deadeye Dick, compellingly depressive, and I believe under-recognized among his works.
A few I had trouble even finishing: Bluebeard, Mother Night, Jailbird, and Gallapagos.
SH5 is not among my favorites of his, but it is an important classic that everyone should read anyway. If you like this book, by the way, you will like his essays.
My two cents.
hay82
Active Member
I've only read Slaughterhouse 5 and Timequake by Vonnegut, but he is already my favorite writer. It's not the stories or the persons in the book I like, it's the things he say and the way he says them. You might not agree with what he says it, but he says it in a way so you can't help thinking about it.
I just finished Timequake yesterday or something like that, and I thought the book was full of things I would like other people to read. It's simple things explained in a way to make you see it differently.
From Timequake
Are we enemies of members of organized religions? No. My great war buddy Bernard V. O'Hare, now dead, lost his faith as a Roman Catholic during World War Two. I didn't like that. I thought that was too much to lose.
I had never had faith like that, because I had been raised by interesting and moral people who, like Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, were nonetheless skeptics about what preachers said was going on. But I knew Bernie had lost something important and honorable.
Again, I did not like that, did not like it because I liked him so much.
I just finished Timequake yesterday or something like that, and I thought the book was full of things I would like other people to read. It's simple things explained in a way to make you see it differently.
From Timequake
Are we enemies of members of organized religions? No. My great war buddy Bernard V. O'Hare, now dead, lost his faith as a Roman Catholic during World War Two. I didn't like that. I thought that was too much to lose.
I had never had faith like that, because I had been raised by interesting and moral people who, like Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, were nonetheless skeptics about what preachers said was going on. But I knew Bernie had lost something important and honorable.
Again, I did not like that, did not like it because I liked him so much.
RitalinKid
New Member
You guys reminded me of some things that I like or notice about Vonnegut.
1. He seems to have a universe that he writes from. The main character of Mother Night made an appearnce in Slaughterhouse Five. There are plenty of other instances. This is just my most recent encounter. Bernie O'Hare is in Mother Night too.
2. Hay82, you brought up the simple points that he makes, and that really is what makes his books. I come to expect some insights now from authors, not just a fun story. Vonnegut really likes to toy with morality, and because of that, I think more people should read him.
3. Mari, despite being a hilarious book, Vonnegut also give you a window into himself in Breakfast of Champions. I love how he puts himself into the story and discusses a deeply personal subject in the suicide and mental problems of his mother. His sharing of intimate details made me feel like a close friend of his.
As for Mother Night, I have to add that the characters were much more believable characters than the ones he usually uses. He still uses some crazy situations though. Vonnegut has a racist Catholic priest, a nazi, a white supremicist, and a black man known as The Black Fuerher of Harlem (who worked as a Japanese spy and believed an uprising of all people of color would happen) living and working together. How hilarious is that? Of course, it turns out that despite their beliefs they are the most trustworthy people in the book.
I was thinking Mother Night would be a great movie, so I looked at IMDB, and it turns out it already is. I'll have to pick it up.
1. He seems to have a universe that he writes from. The main character of Mother Night made an appearnce in Slaughterhouse Five. There are plenty of other instances. This is just my most recent encounter. Bernie O'Hare is in Mother Night too.
2. Hay82, you brought up the simple points that he makes, and that really is what makes his books. I come to expect some insights now from authors, not just a fun story. Vonnegut really likes to toy with morality, and because of that, I think more people should read him.
3. Mari, despite being a hilarious book, Vonnegut also give you a window into himself in Breakfast of Champions. I love how he puts himself into the story and discusses a deeply personal subject in the suicide and mental problems of his mother. His sharing of intimate details made me feel like a close friend of his.
As for Mother Night, I have to add that the characters were much more believable characters than the ones he usually uses. He still uses some crazy situations though. Vonnegut has a racist Catholic priest, a nazi, a white supremicist, and a black man known as The Black Fuerher of Harlem (who worked as a Japanese spy and believed an uprising of all people of color would happen) living and working together. How hilarious is that? Of course, it turns out that despite their beliefs they are the most trustworthy people in the book.
I was thinking Mother Night would be a great movie, so I looked at IMDB, and it turns out it already is. I'll have to pick it up.
RitalinKid
New Member
I don't think you can go wrong with KV. From the seven books I've read so far, some were better than others, but I would recommend any of them. Sometimes his material gets a little slow in the first half, before he really starts turning the crank, but after the story gets going, I can't put his books down.
If you want some more insight into KV, without reading a study of him, you can read Wampters, Foma and Granfalloons. It's a collection of short stories, a play, and articles written by KV, plus an interview from Playboy.
If you want some more insight into KV, without reading a study of him, you can read Wampters, Foma and Granfalloons. It's a collection of short stories, a play, and articles written by KV, plus an interview from Playboy.