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Labor Unions - Do we need them anymore?

Again, I think you have the wrong end of the stick. Fix the fair compensation problem and people can take care of themselves.

The government now approaches such problems with such small adjustments as tenths of percentages in interest rates. Why do you assume that there has to be some sweeping intervention in the housing market? I'm arguing for a wage that pays rent, not a rebuilding of cities by the government.
 
And I don't see how you can think that a wholescale, widespread increase of wages to the tune of $5.00 per hour or more to millions of jobs across the entire country would not cause prices for consumer goods and services to increase by the same margins. I think most businesses are walking the tightrope between trying to keep the best employees they can get, yet offer the lowest prices to the consumers possible. I don't think profit margins on most things purchased are as high as most would believe.
 
The richest 10.000 families in USA has more income after taxes than the 100 million poorest families.

The top 1% richest people in USA owns about 40% of the total wealth in USA.

And the inequality is increasing.
 
Zolipara said:
The richest 10.000 families in USA has more income after taxes than the 100 million poorest families.

The top 1% richest people in USA owns about 40% of the total wealth in USA.

And the inequality is increasing.
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My guess would be that those kind of statistics hold true in every country in the world...and maybe worse in many countries. What is the gap like in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Japan...? If, indeed, those numbers are correct.

Do the poorest American's have it better than the average earners in many places on Earth? Or at least have access to much more than many in other places on Earth? I'd say the answer to that is yes too. Every kid in this country has access to schooling. Hell, thousands of Mexicans are flooding across the borders everyday to take advantage of the American systems that far and away blows away anything Mexico has to offer.
 
Yes it is lighter and I am quite sure things are that bad. BIG burger fast food restaurants and soft drinks companies, shoe manufacturers as well as shirt manufacturers are whizzing around the world at a fantastic rate. Ask the woman who works 16 hours a day in a Nike factory in Indonesia if things are that bad. That is where the $300 billion is being invested by and large. What is bad about financial investment as opposed to stock and plant investment is that it can be whipped away again with speed. Yes, things are that bad!

novella said:
linda,

That's on a lighter note?! Yikes. The lyrics are clever, but I'm not sure things are THAT bad. :eek: But it does prompt a little thinking. $300 billion in US dollars was invested last year in overseas companies. Our biggest export is money.
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I do not make a habit out of praising anything G. Dubyah B. says but I have to say this was nice to read.

From the Pres. to GM & Ford

Is anybody going to argue that many of the problems with GM and Ford right now are not directly related to issues regarding unions?
 
I will not argue but I will state that the Auto Makers problems cannot be blamed on the unions. Their problems rest on the management of Ford and GM. And, while speaking of GWB, if he would do something about the health system in this Country there wouldn't be a problem that exists between the Unions and the auto companies.

I believe that most people that buy Camry's and Honda's over the Taurus and Impala are doing so because of the quality and not the cost.
 
Ford and GM are selling a huge number of cars. They are still in the top five in the world as far as sales. It's not a question of product as much as where is the money going. I heard somewhere, and I'll have to search for the actual number, but something like over $1500.00 per car goes to paying benefits.

Honda and Toyota are not constrained by the same labor unions that GM and Ford have to answer to.
 
Here's something I found real quick from two different sources:

GM sold 9.2 million vehicles worldwide in 2005, the second-largest volume in the company's history.

The problems facing GM and Ford have been twofold. First, because of longstanding labor union contracts with their workers, American manufacturers pay out hefty healthcare and pension benefits. Industry analysts estimate that for every car sold by a U.S. carmaker, $1,500 is paid out in health benefits to workers and retired workers. That number climbs above $2,000 per car when pensions are factored in.

That's a drain that Japanese manufacturers Toyota, Nissan and Honda are not paying out, as most use non-union workers, even for U.S.-based manufacturing plants.
Click to expand...
 
Motokid said:
Here's something I found real quick from two different sources:
GM sold 9.2 million vehicles worldwide in 2005, the second-largest volume in the company's history.

The problems facing GM and Ford have been twofold. First, because of longstanding labor union contracts with their workers, American manufacturers pay out hefty healthcare and pension benefits. Industry analysts estimate that for every car sold by a U.S. carmaker, $1,500 is paid out in health benefits to workers and retired workers. That number climbs above $2,000 per car when pensions are factored in.

That's a drain that Japanese manufacturers Toyota, Nissan and Honda are not paying out, as most use non-union workers, even for U.S.-based manufacturing plants.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

In Britain health provision is funded via taxation with only a fraction of that money coming from corperations, which begs the question: Why is car manufacturing (including Ford) in Britain dieing on its arse when they're free of this crippling burden???
 
Who owns who in the auto world: as of 2004 I believe...

BMW owns:
-BMW
-Mini
-Rolls Royce

Daimler/Chrysler owns:
-AMC (brand discontinued -- Chrysler bought AMC primarily for the Jeep brand which was owned by AMC)
-Chrysler
-Dodge
-Eagle (brand discontinued)
-Hyundai (Daimler/Chrysler only owns 10% --13 May 04 changes!)
-Jeep
-Maybach
-Mercedes-Benz
-Plymouth (brand discontinued)
-Smart

Fiat owns:
-Alfa Romeo
-Ferrari
-Fiat
-Lancia
-Maserati

Ford owns:
-Aston Martin
-Ford
-Jaguar
-Land Rover (bought from BMW)
-Lincoln
-Mazda (Ford owns 33% of Mazda)
-Mercury
-Volvo cars

Fuji Heavy Industries owns:
-Subaru

General Motors owns:
-Buick
-Cadillac
-Chevrolet
-Daewoo (GM owns 44%)
-Fiat (GM owns ~20%) (GM has decided to divorce itself from Fiat as of Feb '05)
-GMC
-Holden
-Hummer
-Isuzu (GM only owns a percentage)
-Oldsmobile (brand discontinued)
-Opel
-Pontiac
-Saab
-Saturn
-Subaru (GM owns 20%)
-Suzuki (GM only owns a small percentage)
-Vauxhall

Honda owns:
-Acura
-Honda

Hyundai owns:
-Hyundai
-Kia

Nissan owns:
-Infiniti
-Nissan
-Renault (Nissan owns 15%)

PSA Peugeot Citroen owns:
-Citroen
-Peugeot

Porsche is an independent company (they do work very closely with VW, however)

Renault owns:
-Nissan (Renault owns 44%)

Toyota owns:
-Daihatsu (~51%)
Fuji Heavy Industries (Toyota owns ~20%. Toyota bought this from GM in late 2005. )
-Lexus
-Scion
-Toyota

Volkswagen owns:
-Audi
-Bentley
-Bugatti
-Lamborghini
-SEAT
-Skoda
-Volkswagen
Click to expand...
 
Motokid said:
Here's something I found real quick from two different sources:
Click to expand...
In Japan the health care is paid by the government and Toyota, Honda, etc don't have to pay the workers for it.

It wasn't the unions that developed vehicles like the Aztek whch fell on its rear. And the U.S. relied way too heavily on the big trucks, SUV,s etc. and are now paying the price.

Truth is, the Japanese cars are simply better built. Ever compare a Honda CRV against a Ford Escape. quality against a piece of junk.
One more thing. They know how to keep their customers. i wned a Lincoln and had a problem. Took it to the dealer and was told that the warranty run out. Called the Lincoln people and was told the same thing. I now own an Acura and also had a problem and called the Acura people about it. Even though the warranty had expired thay told me to take it to the dealer and they would take care of it as they valued me as a customer.
 
Your arguement seems to be based completely on American cars being junk. That's not true.

The Japanese health care system is not paying the health benefits of the American workers building the Honda's and Toyota's that are built in America. American workers are building some of the best selling cars in the world, but it's the non-UAW workers that are doing it for Honda and Toyota.

This may be the first year that GM is not the number one seller of automobiles in the world. If they are creating junk the numbers don't prove that. "GM sold 9.2 million vehicles worldwide in 2005, the second-largest volume in the company's history"

They only sold more cars once in the companies entire history yet they recorded huge, huge losses in profits.
 
muggle said:
moto, have you owned a Camry or Accord?
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My mother when she was alive had Accords for 15-ish years.
My sister has a Honda CRV.
My wife and I have a Toyota Sienna
I have a Mazda pick-up truck
I also have a Yamaha motorcycle.

What's that got to do with Unions?
 
I'm sure there's plenty of blaim to throw around, and the top brass are no exception. They deserve to be hit hard too.

However, I'm sure the top brass at Honda are making huge sums of money too. And GM is still outselling Honda and Nissan yet Honda and Nissan are not in such huge financial trouble.

Honda and Nissan are not havng to scalp up to $2000.00 per car to pay union benefits and pensions.

This will be the first time in company history that Toyota has sold more than GM, but GM's problems certainly go back more than just the last few months, or even the last few years.

The American auto industries problems have been growing and festering for decades, not months.

I live in a state with a GM plant and a Chrysler plant. I know more than a handful of GM/Chrysler employees. I know what some of these people make. I also know that the plants they work in routinely get shut-down for weeks and or months at a time almost every year. These UAW workers still get about 90% of their paychecks even when they don't work, and they retain all the health benefits too. Most find part time work to make even more money.

Now how many of you who work will get paid for weeks or months without having to show up and do anythng? Is that fair to the company?
 
Motokid said:
How much good is that union going to do you if you don't have a job to go to?
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And Ford and GM will go bankrupt if they continue to blame the Union for all their woes and do not bring their plants up to speed among the many other problems thay have caused. The problem is not a "one cause" thing. Only about one third of the Japanese cars are built outside of Japan. The Japanese Govt. pays the helath care for their citizens.

And on the matter of perception. Are you saying that Toyota and Honda are better at marketing than Ford and GM?????
 
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