Misreadings large and small

[novella]

I’m intrigued by the number of users of this site whose first language is other than English. It’s a wonderful thing.

I’m also interested generally in misreadings, both those within a text and those brought in by translators and readers. I imagine that there are lots of people on this forum who have insight into this.

There are all kinds of misreadings. For instance, one of Shakespeare’s great devices is to have characters misinterpret, over-interpret, or mishear each other, leading to either comic or tragic ends. He’s always playing with the flexibility of language and the huge potential for misunderstanding.

And take Chaucer, which I read in Middle English a long time ago. Very difficult and also very funny. There is still no definitive translation of most of his work because he was always innovating and messing around.

You know all those funny misreadings you have as a kid:

“and lead us not into Penn Station, but deliver us from evil.”

“and to the Republic of Richard Stands, one nation under God” etc.

I love that stuff.

And there are the “serious” misreading that people go on and on about in academia. How to read Keats’ “Ode on a Grecian Urn” is a biggie.

Misreadings are fun to notice. Sometimes they’re the product of a culture, or a mistaken etymological relationship (the kills—common local name for streams-- of upstate NY are called that because of Dutch roots here, but my English ma-in-law thought it meant something deadly).

And there are all the instances where one language just does not have an equivalent in another language or where a metaphor or idiom in one just becomes really strange when translated to another.

I once read an ad for a Japanese hotel in Tokyo, translated from Japanese. "You will never find even one hair in the sink." Height of luxury?

Novella

 

[Martin]

Well, english isn't my first language, but I have to say that I hardly ever misread something. I'm not boasting about my language-skills, I think it's mainly to do with the kind of books I read. In the beginning years of my English study I had to read a lot of the socalled high-brow literature (the aforementioned Shakespeare and Chaucer, but also Hardy, Dickens, etc.), and they did force me te reread certain paragraphs several times.

Nowadays I only read what I want to read, which is mainly contemporary fiction, and therefore (almost always) less ambiguous, simply because the language is the one I (we) use every day.

That said, I recently read The Crow Road by Banks, and now I'm reading Porno by Irvine, and the Irish words (like "didnae" -- the "ae" sound is a returning feature), are still kinda ruining my reading-rythm.

All in all, I don't have that much trouble with it - none at all, most of the time. Which is a good thing, considering that I'm studying to be a translator.

Cheers

 

[novella]

Martin,

What I mean is that if you know one or two languages well, you will hear many subtleties that others miss. I know that living in England I learned how the "other" language works. Most Americans don't understand English vernacular such as abbreviated cockney rhyming slang (cup o Rosie) or expressions like "stone the crows" and other little differences like biscuits and cling film and courgette. And there are so many cultural subtleties that manifest in language. What is considered polite, for instance.

(warning:anecdotal generalization ahead)

When you tell an English person something they didn't know, they often say, "Yes," as if they already knew it.
When you tell an American something they didn't know, they say, "Really?" as if you can't possibly know it if they don't.


I realized, after reading English literature for most of my life, that there were many many things that I'd missed--and English is my first language.

I think all the participants here must have very good English to even be following a discussion and habitually reading good books in English.

The reason I brought this up was because I had just read something in which a book critic misquoted the Keats' "truth is beauty" couplet--got the words right but the meaning wrong--and I just thought he was unintentionally propogating a misreading. Not intended as a criticism of people who know 2 or 3 languages!! You have my respect!

Novella

 

[Halo]

I think all the participants here must have very good English to even be following a discussion and habitually reading good books in English.

I totally agree with you on this - I am always very impressed with how the people on here whose first language is not English cope with reading English texts. I don't know how they do it, especially when the text contains dialect which probably doesn't appear in dictionaries, or words local to one geographical area, or slang. How would a French person find out what "didnae" or "tek" means? I suppose they would have to try and work it out from the context. Some dialect words, especially nouns, would be nigh on impossible to understand, even in context.

Then of course you've got all the homographs such as minute/minute, and all the other peculiarities of the English language, such as the phoneme "-ough", which is pronounced many different ways according to the word.

So in conclusion, I am very impressed, particulary with Martin, who can write in formal and informal English, and even knows British swear words! He now also knows what "oop" means too! (BTW I mean this sincerely and don't intend to be patronising or anything.)

 

[Martin]

Well, I paid good money to get to know this odd language of yours, so ..

No, seriously, thank you. It's always nice to receive compliments from native speakers.

And Novella, you're mainly talking about the differences between American English and British English, right? I can't say all that much about that, because the target-language of my study was mainly the latter. That said, it's always nice te be able to find out things about people (where they're from) just by their spelling; i.e. color vs colour or analize vs. analise.

Now, excuse me while I reread Keats Ode On A Grecian Urn (man, that's long ago).

Cheers

 

[Thelma]

Right

I'm not a native speaker of English either, but English is my all time favourite when it comes to language and literature. And yes, there are a lot of misinterpretations and misreadings that I came across in translations or in real life. And I have a whole list of ads that were written by people who couldn't speak English very well in different countries, the effect of their mistakes is incredibly funny. I'll try to give you a few examples from my memory but I promise to look for the list in my library: in a Japanese hotel room there was this ad- ' You can take advantage of the chambermaid."
Of course they meant that you could ask her to clean your room but a richer imagination....
I also know a funny essay, you may have read it, it' s called " English is a crazy language." It discusses words that can be misread or used in puns: eggplant, there's no egg in it; Guinea pig is not a pig; there's no apple in a pineapple, etc.
And of course I laughed a lot reading translations from English in which the mistakes were really hilarious. I'll try to come back with more examples.

 

[Ich kämpfe]

I don't know how it is for the rest of the people around here, but we learned English, along with French, at a very early age and it continued all the way until my parents (bringing me along) moved to the US a few years ago.

I think that is the problem with the United States which I now know first-hand, most people don't start a second language until 10th grade and take it for two years only. Some never take it since it isn't required unless you are getting a college prep diploma. Plus most people are egotistical and think their natural language is the language everyone should learn, so even taking a language for 2 years doesn't leave any impression on them.

I better end this before I begin to ramble!

Edit: I think I would misunderstand some of those British slang words and phrases. "Stone the Crows" and all your other sayings go over my head.

 

[Freya]

Ramblings good.

We took either French or German in year 7 (age 11), then in year 8 we could take up the language we didnt do in year 7 if we did well enough in the first year. Then in year 10 you had to drop one again, and do one language GCSE, unless you wished to use yur one precious free option on the other language - there were 6 of us out of 300 kids that did that. Mostly people didn't seem to enjoy languages at my school - don't know why

 

[Ich kämpfe]

Hah!

I remember hating to learn Englisch and French, with excuses like "I'll never use this!" Look at me now.

I have to admit, I don't use French very often. By far my worst language though, so maybe that's a good thing.

 

[Ice]

I don't think we put enough effort in over here to teach children a foreign language (or two). I started french in year 7 (aged 11) - we didn't get the option of which language we wanted to choose - in our school the years alternate between studying French and German. You can take up the other language in year 9 but only if there is enough interest (as it was there were only 6 of us in my year that wanted to do German, so the course wasn't run ) I took up Spanish in my spare time at college and again at Uni, so have a basic understanding of it - but i'm by no means fluent in any language other than English

In comparison - a friend of mine who grew up on the continent had to learn four languages from an early age (English being one of them). He can now speak each language to at least A' Level standard

 

[Freya]

It's a shame - we are so spoilt having English as a first language.

We couldnt choose our language either, it depended on whether you were in Band A or Band B. (Band A was surnames A - Mish, Band B surnames M - Z)

Uh-oh - off on another tangent.

 

[Martin]

I 'was forced' to learn three, quite extensively. English, which I loved, and French and German, which I both loathed - I dropped those as son as I could. French has been all but completely eradicated from my mind, but I still speak a word of two in German (don't start, Ich Kampfe).

Cheers

 

[Ashlea]

Here in the US we get barely any language at all, as has been previously noted. It's a shame, if they don't catch you young it's so much harder to learn.

 

[Ice]

Its definately much harder to learn a language when you're older

 

[Martin]

That's Universal Grammar for 'ya.

Cheers

 

[Jenem]

at our school, we got to choose either french or german. i chose german and spent 4 years on it. since it's been 10 years and i haven't used it often AT ALL, i've forgotten most of it. but i can still whip out a useful phrase once in awhile.

to get back to topic: my in-laws are english (living here in Canada now) and i will never forget the time my husband's nan asked the meat packer in Safeway to "pack her up a joint". LMAO!

do i need to explain why this is funny?

 

[Martin]

No.

Cheers

 

[Ich kämpfe]

Can't believe you did not like German , but I won't pester you about it Martin.

Maybe all of you people who only know one language should take the burden upon yourself and try to learn the basics and reward yourself by taking a vacation to Germany of wherever for a few months to master it. Being surrounded by your language is the fastest way to learn. When I came to the US my English skill increased dramatically.

Sigh, beginning to ramble again.

 

[Jenem]

Maybe all of you people who only know one language should take the burden upon yourself and try to learn the basics and reward yourself by taking a vacation to Germany of wherever for a few months to master it.

it's not that easy for most of us
unless you are offering to pay for my ticket

 

[Martin]

How can taking a vacation in Germany ever be a reward!?

Anyway, I agree with you - the Uni I'm at gave me the chance to go to England for a year, and to continu my studies there. Too bad I couldn't afford it, as you were expected to pay the airfair, tuition, housing, and a man's gotta eat and be clothed too, right.

Let me see hands of people who think I look like a bank.

Cheers