Reading in a Foreign Language

[lies]

Quite a few members here probably read books in languages that aren't their mother tongue, so I was wondering: why do (or don't) you do it, what do you get out of it, do you have any problems with it?

I remember talking to Tobytook about this back in the day, and he said:

Thing is, the really off-putting aspect of reading (rather than just speaking) another language is that books don't tolerate a great margin of error. It's not as though you can ask a written sentence to clarify itself or express its meaning in simpler terms. You either get it or you don't, so your reading level wants to be pretty high or it's dead ahead to Frustration City.

(You can find the original discussion here, if you're interested.)

I for one enjoy reading novels in their original language because if anything gets lost in the translation, it's my own doing. I don't have to worry about whether or not the translator got the meaning of the book and I don't want to get annoyed by bad translations either.

How about you guys?

 

[mr_michel]

well my first language is spanish, and i read a lot of books in english, i rather read the books in its original language for a) i dont have to wait months for the book to be translated into spanish b)when the hard edition in spanish is out, the soft one usually is already out in english

if realeasing date is not a matter, ill just go for whatever edition is cheaper (only try to avoid a couple publishing houses i had bad experiences before regarding translation)

 

[Rigana]

There are so many bad translations around - I recently stumbled over the term 'sonnenblumenviolett' in a book: sun flower violet.

I try to read as much in its original language as possible, especially when it comes to poetry or books with very unique style. It can be a very frustrating experience sometimes (especially when I pick up something French), but a most satisfying, too.

Reading in a foreign language helps me getting a better feeling for it. Especially when it comes to proverbs and phrases, reading can improve your abilities a lot. You just don't learn those things at school.

 

[lies]

I taught myself English by reading as much English novels as possible. I sometimes regret this now, because I never did read much Belgian books growing up, but that can't be helped now, so I guess I should just be grateful my English is pretty good. French takes some more getting into for me (depending on the author, mostly), but it's really funny to see how much more willing I am to speak French* when I'm reading a French novel than when I am reading an English one.

*And that's quite the feat, cause usually I flat out refuse to talk French.

 

[Kookamoor]

... but it's really funny to see how much more willing I am to speak French* when I'm reading a French novel than when I am reading an English one.

*And that's quite the feat, cause usually I flat out refuse to talk French.

So what language do you prefer to speak? Flemish? Forgive me if this is an ignorent question, but I really don't know a lot about Belgium. My understanding was that different languages (French, Flemish and German(?)) are spoken in varying proportions depending upon which region of the country you are in. I always thought that was incredible!

I nearly went to Brussels once because of a cheap flight via Air Lingus (very stupid reason why I didn't). But I wasn't sure how I would be received as I only speak some stilting French, which is marginally better now than it was. Would someone in a region where French is a minor language speak back to me in French? Or would they pretend they couldn't converse? (You have to realise that I've spent a bit of time in Quebec, where some people would rather not speak to you at all, rather than converse with you in English).

 

[direstraits]

I don't know if English should be considered my "mother tongue" or not, frankly. I cannot read in my *real* mother tongue, which is chinese (but I converse in and understand mandarin and cantonese). Since I have been learning English from young, I don't know if I can count English as my second language.

The other language I can read is Malay, but then I've not picked up any Malay novels since my school days, and there's nothing as far as I can tell that are considered must-read classics in Malay, certainly not in the degree of early classics of the French, German and Italian (Umberto Eco is educating me on this at present [laugh]).

I will at some point in my life redress the fact that I cannot read chinese and pick up classics and other essential Chinese works.

ds

 

[clueless]

My reasons are the same as Lies' and Rigana's. Another reason is that many authors/books are never translated or at least I don't know whether they will ever be translated. I only wish I could speak more languages.

 

[chewlianchillz]

In Singapore, English is recognized as the most important language to learn in school at first. But afterwards which is around some years ago, the government decided that citizens should involve their mother tongue language into their daily life too, so the culture won't get lost in our society...

Mother tongue languages include Mandarin, Malay, Hindi, depending on the ethnic group you belong to.

While to answer this thread, I will read, anything I could understand. It does'nt matter if it's my mother tongue (Chinese), or my second language (English) although I'm born with a mom graduated from English school and a dad graduated from Chinese School.

Mandarin in readings, is categorized into 2 groups; one is traditional, while another is simplified. So proud to say, I understand both of them. Do you believe that I actually taught myself to read traditional chinese words? That was back in days when I'm in secondary school.

I believe, some of the Americans and people from other countries are very fluent in mandarin, regardless of speech, sight or literature.

In the end, I still prefer to read English books.

 

[francesca]

I started reading in Italian because...

I live here and want to feel more comfortable with the language, written as well as oral.Language skills don't come naturally to me, but reading does so I thought it was worth trying.

I want to be able to pop out and buy books at my local (very good) bookshops.

By doing the above I can save a lot of credit card bashing on Amazon

It's a challenge


I started with very simple books, and some that I was very familiar with, nothing actually original. After I had read Io Non Ho Paura, I realised that I could branch out into original language books, and thanks to this forum have been given some great advice on what direction to take. One problem for me is that habitually I am a very fast reader, I absorb words on a page without thinking about it. Obviously I don't have the skills to do that with something written in Italian so its a slower progress, but personally I feel it's worth the effort. The great thing is going back to a book I started and had to give up because it was beyond my capabilities, and find that I can get to grips with it, it marks my progress.
I am about to return to Grazia Deledda, a Sardinian writer who won the Nobel Prize for her acheivements back in the late 1920's. I've visited her home, which has been beautifully restored to match her description of it in her novel Cosima, so that adds another dimension for me.

 

[Zolipara]

I read quite a lot in English, and i have tried reading a few german books, but my german isnt good enough. For me there are many reasons for reading in english. First of all i think its better to read a book in the language it was written if possible. Translators are not always good enough writers. And while you can follow the story i find there is often something "lost" in the translation. At least thats the case with some authors. I doubt i lost much reading a translation of a Dan Brown book. But when comparing the old classics written in my language with a translation of for instance a russian classic i can easily see the difference. Some translators are very good, but others are just horrible.

I find the selection of books available in english is much larger than the amount of books available in my mother tongue. It takes time for books to be translated, and often books are translated more quickly into English than my mother tongue. There is a much larger market for english books so there is usually a larger number of old classics still in print and a number of books that just never got translated into my language.

 

[Rigana]

Oh yes, availability is a good point, Zolipara.
When I'm interested in for example Spanish and Russian books there often is a German translation but no English one. With most English books I have the choice, because they are often translated.

Another thing I noticed is that I can't easily skip between French and English books. I just mix it all up, thinking in English while reading French.

 

[Martin]

I simply want to read a book in the language it was originally published in, which limits my choices to Dutch and English. Though, the bulk of my reading material is English, both for my education, and as a personal preference.

 

[lies]

So what language do you prefer to speak? Flemish?

My mother tongue is Dutch. I started learing French when I was seven, English when I was fourteen and German when I was sixteen. I'm only fluent in English and Dutch though. My French is good enough to read in and everything, but I just don't feel comfortable enough conversing in it on a high level. I never really cared about my German classes, so my active knowledge of that language is terrible, though I can understand a fair bit, given some time.

I live in Flanders myself, but make the trip into Brussels daily because I study there. The thing about Brussels is that it's 80% of its inhabitants speak French whereas only 20% speak Dutch, so the main language in most parts of Brussels is French. So if you go to the centre of Brussels, most people in shops will speak French to you, no matter what you do or say. I have no problem with switching to French if I see they're at least making the effort to help me in my own language, but when they just refuse to speak Dutch I get very close to exploding.

I've had people talk to me in English because they didn't understand and speak Dutch, I've been ignored because I addressed a shop assistant in Dutch, I've been told to go ask someone else because they could not help me in my own language. Brussels is bilingual, dammit. There is no way a shop in Brussels is going to hire a Dutch speaking person if their French isn't above average, so why should it be any different the other way around?

I walk into every shop with a great big smile on my face and start off by wishing them a good day in Dutch. If they won't help me in Dutch (or at least try to), I'll be more than happy to create a scene. (Well, not really, but I'm trying to assert myself. He.)

My understanding was that different languages (French, Flemish and German(?)) are spoken in varying proportions depending upon which region of the country you are in. I always thought that was incredible!

The people in Flanders usually speak Dutch, the people in Wallonie French and the people in the East Cantons German (about one percent of Belgium's entire population), but there's definitly some migration there. (Plenty of French people at the coast, and some in the Ardennes too, I should think.)

Would someone in a region where French is a minor language speak back to me in French? Or would they pretend they couldn't converse?

A year ago I would've said everyone would be able to talk to you in French, but now I'm not so sure. All the old people will still speak fluent French, probably, but the younger ones that didn't do ASO (it's a general education kinda thing), but rather TSO or BSO (a technical or professional training) might have more problems with it, cause they get only a few hours. I don't know. I think it all depends on the schools people went to and the level of education they got I guess, along with their location.

 

[bluedahlia]

My mother tongue is spanich and many times I end up reading in english because some books are never translated to spanish-especially many technical books in areas like arquitecture, design, fashion, wich I consume a lot-but often I do find myself buying them because I prefer to read the authors in their original language, for many expressions cannot be translated. I do find that english has many conceptual words, while spanish is a describing item by item language, so sometimes tranlations are very innacurate. They also help a lot with your learning of another language, by making associations between words that might escape by just hearing.
I read in italian too, because again, if I have the chance to read in original , I will, but except for slang words, it is a lot more similar.
One thing about reading in other tongue has, at least for me, that sometimes it does take you longer or need to be more focused than when it's on your daily language.

 

[Kookamoor]

That's really interesting, lies! Reminds me a lot of Quebec in some ways (not good ones, unfortunately) as well as the Canadian government, where to be employed one must pass a French exam of incredible difficulty (difficult even for native speakers) but not an English one. I'm sure you can extrapolate from there.

One last question, because I know this is a little off topic - where does Flemish fit in??

 

[lies]

That's really interesting, lies! Reminds me a lot of Quebec in some ways (not good ones, unfortunately) as well as the Canadian government, where to be employed one must pass a French exam of incredible difficulty (difficult even for native speakers) but not an English one. I'm sure you can extrapolate from there.

I guess it's a problem in all multilingual countries. And since Belgium as a country was only thrown together 175 years ago and didn't really grow naturally, there's sometimes tension between the Wallons and the Flemish.

One last question, because I know this is a little off topic - where does Flemish fit in??

Flemish isn't a recognized language as such, it's just a name given to the different dialects spoken in Flanders. Most people speak "Algemeen Nederlands" (which exists thanks to the language union we have with The Netherlands), but still speak their local dialects at home (to varying degrees, of course).

For example, I wouldn't understand someone from West Flanders or Limburgh if they didn't make the effort to speak slowly and to keep their dialectic words to a minimum.

 

[Kookamoor]

Thanks lies! I've always wondered about that...

 

[direstraits]

There are, however, times when reading in the language a book is written in is simply not an option, and those of us who would still like to read it have no choice but to hope that the translator is good.

Two of the most recent books I've read were not in their native language (Blindness by Saramago and The Mysterious Flame of Queen Loana by Umberto Eco).

In Blindness, the translator apparently had won awards for translating works from Spanish before, so I thought he must not be too shabby. My impression of the Blindness was it was functional English, but had to copy Saramago's style as well, which is uncommon.

In Mysterious Flame, the translation, in my opinion, is incredible. Not able to read the original Italian text, I don't know if the translation was accurate or not, but as an English novel I found that the language was beautiful and descriptive, one of nicest use of language in a novel I've read.

Like many of you, I'm worried about losing something in translation, but I didn't get that feeling while reading these two books.

I know I will not be learning Italian/Spanish to read these books though.

ds

 

[clueless]

Sometimes it's a question of choosing between translations. When I try to get Platonov's Foundation Pit, it was out of print and I was told the publisher was considering whether it would reprint it or not. It seemed the publisher had been thinking about it for a few years, so I looked for another translation. It turned out there was a new French edition, based on the original manuscript, which had been censored before. The translation was then more complete than the Russian edition.

I would like to read 'House of Day, house of night' but I've heard the English translator gave up, left lots of paragraphs and even a whole chapter out. As I cannot read Polish, it is a question of trying to find another translation by a more professional translator.

 

[direstraits]

Yeah, I've read about different translations for the same work. But I'd suspect that that only applies to classic works. I remember feeling confused when I was browsing in the bookstore on War and Peace - seemed to me no two editions were translated by the same chap.

Newer novels do not have this luxury, I'd suspect. Unless, if you find the English translation lacking, you get the French version. Now that's choice.

ds