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right to life - right to die

The only problem with that, Bernard, and I do agree with you in theory, is that many people question what she truly wanted. He says that's what she wanted, but there's no documented proof of it. All you have to go by is the word of a man, which ordinarily probably would be enough. However, there've been many people stepping forward talking about their relationship...about how controlling he was, about how they had a major fight the night she collapsed and how her friends were warning her not to go home, about how he would get explosively angry if he caught any of the nurses and caregivers doing any sort of therapy, about how she had even spoken to her family about divorcing him a few days prior, which is a big deal considering she's a very devout Catholic, about nurses having affidavits saying that he'd keep on saying, "When's that *beep* gonna die?". Of course, all THOSE things could be hearsay themselves. They might not have an ounce of truth to them. But I think that's why there are many people out there who question the husband's motives. And just hearing things like that is why I still think the case should be investigated further on his part!

If those truly were her wishes, then yeah, it should be what happens. If they weren't truly her wishes, then her life should be fought for. That's the whole "lack of a living will" thing that has made this situation so sticky! Wasn't it several years after the fact that her husband made the statement too? I'm not sure. Seems like I heard that somewhere.
 
The ultimate bottom line here is the husband is doing what's legally his right to do. That's why no court in 15 years has reversed what's happening today. He is totally within the confines of what's legal to act as he wishes regardless of what others think, including the parents. That's the law as it currently stands. Like it or not.
If you don't like it make damn sure you have something specific in writting and in someplace that more than one person can get to. Make sure relatives have a copy and spouces, and parents. That's the best way for all to understand.

I'm still puzzled about one thing tho'.

A few of you here seem to have a medical background. Can you try to explain:

How a surgically implanted tube that provides food and water is not considered "life support"? If it's removed and the patient dies, that to me means life support. With it, life. Without it, death. Please help me here if you can.
 
sorry, can't help Motokid,

but you know, if it's another person who is ...unwell then we shouldn't decide for them, we should only be able to decide for ourselves, not anyone else. i mean, do you guys all want to live? some of us are sad and life just doesn't seem worth it...(my thoughts)
 
Alizaria Terra said:
sorry, can't help Motokid,

but you know, if it's another person who is ...unwell then we shouldn't decide for them, we should only be able to decide for ourselves, not anyone else. i mean, do you guys all want to live? some of us are sad and life just doesn't seem worth it...(my thoughts)
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Hearing people say stuff like that has always made me sad. Even in my lowest moments, I've always known that they'd eventually pass and that life was too long and there was too much to experience in it to want it to end. It's a gift, to me. So yes, I can't imagine not wanting to live!

Not to make light of that, but it makes me think of the suicide booths on that cartoon, Futurama. Don't know if anyone else has watched that show here. lol
 
I noticed noone has gone near my last post. Too close for comfort?? Have any of you, besides the person(s) who work in the medical field, ever been close to a person or family in this situation? Maybe its easier to decide to let her die because shes so far removed from your life, just another news story?

I see what its like to care for someone like Terri firsthand. Jay has been this way longer than Terri. Every day people work together to make his life comfortable. Should we disconnect him and take away the little bit that the drunk driver left behind, just because some people decide he's "just a shell" or
"I wouldn't want to live like that, so I'll make that chioce for others"???

Personally, Im disgusted with this whole thing. it does hit very close to home for me and I would really appreciate some feedback.

Of course the way things are going, the slow, court-approved murder will probably be over by tomorrow. Happy Easter huh?!
 
I think a lot of people have already given feedback, perhaps not to what you are saying specifically, but you can find a lot of opinions in this thread. The problem with this situation is that it involves people’s beliefs and that is always a dangerous thing to touch. This debate would soon enough become a question of what makes a person a person and there you can't avoid getting into religion.

The way I made up my mind on this was simply by asking, would I like to be like that? And the simple answer to that is no. Would I want to be starved to death? Sure if it's without pain as some say it's going to be, else I would just like an injection.
Being trapped inside my body unable to communicate or do anything, is in my mind far worse than death, and I would like to end it as fast a possible.
 
lorre,
I don't think people are avoiding your post. You have to realize you're posting late to this thread. Some people chimed in days ago, like myself. It's the weekend and alot of people's online habits change.

The fact is the parents of the child you know will decide what to do throughout his life. That's the legal role of the guardian. The same is true in the case of Schiavo. The legal guardian is legally allowed to decide. That's what the legal case is about.

I think if you want someone to chime in on what SHOULD happen to the boy you know, you're barking up the wrong tree. It's the family's business.
 
"I would really appreciate some feedback"

lorrekarloff, what kind of feedback are you looking for that's not covered in the over 100 posts in this thread? You state that maybe it's easier to let her die since she lives so far away. Can't the same be said for letting her live? Those who argue for her life don't have to care for her. It's just as easy to argue either side of the debate regardless of the circumstances because none of us are directly effected.

Those that are directly effected should be left alone to make the decision without government and public interaction. And certainly without a public opinion poll to guide them.

Michael Schiavo is doing what's legally his right to do, and Terri herself gave him that right when she said "I do".

Terri Schiavo gave her husband the legal right to do what he's doing.

What's the feedback you're looking for?
 
lorrekarloff said:
I noticed noone has gone near my last post. Too close for comfort?? Have any of you, besides the person(s) who work in the medical field, ever been close to a person or family in this situation? Maybe its easier to decide to let her die because shes so far removed from your life, just another news story?

I see what its like to care for someone like Terri firsthand. Jay has been this way longer than Terri. Every day people work together to make his life comfortable. Should we disconnect him and take away the little bit that the drunk driver left behind, just because some people decide he's "just a shell" or
"I wouldn't want to live like that, so I'll make that chioce for others"???

Personally, Im disgusted with this whole thing. it does hit very close to home for me and I would really appreciate some feedback.

Of course the way things are going, the slow, court-approved murder will probably be over by tomorrow. Happy Easter huh?!
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I think everyone here has pretty clearly stated their opinions on this issue as a whole. Are you seriously looking for feedback on your friend's situation? There's a lot of things I could say, but it is a door I would never open.
 
Thanks to you all for responding. I wasnt trying to be a pain. I'll try to explain myself better.
I'm very new to any sort of posting, and I first found this topic late at night,probably not the best time to be thinking and writing. I'm wasnt looking for opinion on Jays sitiuation - it just seemed odd that throuout the posts, almost noone else had ever even been close to any sort of similar situation, yet were quick to say pull the tube.
Another thing that was stated repeatedly was "I wouldn't want to live like that." Its such a ridiculous statement anyway-obviously noone would choose to live incapacitated. But just because some of us would wish to die in that situation, how do we know if another person feels that way if they cant tell us? We only have Michael Schiavo's word to go on, nothing written or spoken by Terri.
Hay82 said that starving to death would be OK if there was no pain. Terri is now being given large doses of morphine to stop the pain of starving to death, so I guess its not as painless and wonderful as some are leading us to believe.

Motokid asked in a previous post why a feeding tube is not "life-support". I always thought it was also, and M. Schiavoslawyer reffered to it as life support in his statement to the public Saturday, so I guess it is if the lawyer said so.

Motokid also said "Those who argue for her life don't have to care for her."
Are you saying that it's too much of a burden to care for someone like that, so we should let them die?

And didnt Michael Schivo say "I do" also? If Terri and her family have to go by that, why didn't he? Why is it OK for him to be with other women while hes still legallly married to Terri? We look the other way at his breaking the rules of marriage, but still say he has the husband's right to disconnect his wife from life-support? Why couldn't Terri and her family break the marriage rules also and decide to keep her alive?

And if anyone does want to give their opinion on my situation, I dont mind, I'm the one who brought it up. But I wasnt looking for advice, sorry if that was misunderstood, thanks again for talking with me.
 
"it just seemed odd that throuout the posts, almost noone else had ever even been close to any sort of similar situation, yet were quick to say pull the tube"

lorrekarloff, what makes you think that nobody here has ever had difficult, family, life and death circumstances to deal with? Just because we may not choose to bleed out family pain and tears into this particular thread does not mean we have not had situations in our lives that cause pain and suffering.

Tugging at heart strings to make a point, or illustrate an opinion does not make you any more, or any less qualified to state your feelings on this particular matter.

The fact is you have no idea what transpired between Michael and Terri. Regardless of which news stories you choose to believe, and which organization you choose to stand behind, this case, and any other like it are not for public opinion, and not for public approval.
 
--I just hope they(family,politicians,etc..etc..) let her die w/ dignity instead of using her situation right now for their own sake,and stop the circus that is going on right now.let her die in peace and leave her alone.
 
lorrekarloff,

"Are you saying that it's too much of a burden to care for someone like that, so we should let them die?"

Nope. Not what I'm saying at all.

You made the comment: "Maybe its easier to decide to let her die because shes so far removed from your life, just another news story?"

I'm just taking what you said and changing one word. (although, I admit I did not do it quite this clearly in my earlier post)

Maybe its easier to decide to let her live because shes so far removed from your life, just another news story?

Your analogy works wonderfully well both ways.
 
Motokid said:
"it just seemed odd that throuout the posts, almost noone else had ever even been close to any sort of similar situation, yet were quick to say pull the tube"

lorrekarloff, what makes you think that nobody here has ever had difficult, family, life and death circumstances to deal with? Just because we may not choose to bleed out family pain and tears into this particular thread does not mean we have not had situations in our lives that cause pain and suffering.

Tugging at heart strings to make a point, or illustrate an opinion does not make you any more, or any less qualified to state your feelings on this particular matter.

The fact is you have no idea what transpired between Michael and Terri. Regardless of which news stories you choose to believe, and which organization you choose to stand behind, this case, and any other like it are not for public opinion, and not for public approval.
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I re-read my posts again, and where do you get "bleed out family pain and tears"? Thats insulting and wrong. All I did was state facts in someone's life, no crying or bleeding. I never asked for sympathy for me or Jay!

And you also have no idea what transpired between Terri and Michael, nor do you or anyone else know for sure that she'd want to starve to death. And once someones life is made public, many have an opinion - you have certainly stated plenty of yours!

And what about Michael breaking his marriage vows? Why couldnt the rules be broken for Terri too?
 
You completely missed my point.

You stated "almost noone else had ever even been close to any sort of similar situation".

I was merely pointing out that you don't know that for sure. Maybe people are keeping that kind of painful information to themselves?

Don't assume that just because nobody has stated some similer situation has affected their life, that they are void of heartache and loss.
 
lorrekarloff said:
And what about Michael breaking his marriage vows? Why couldnt the rules be broken for Terri too?
Click to expand...

i didn't really want to get into this conversation, but this point keeps coming to mind. if we are talking about marriage vows and the "ifs" of what Terri wanted, who is to say she would want her husband to have to live married to her like that for the rest of his life? i know if i were in her condition i wouldn't want my husband to be burdened with me like that, regardless of our vows. i'd want him to go and have the life we had hoped to have together, find someone else and have a family. if Michael is such a cruel brute, why didn't he just divorce Terri and let her parents deal with her?
 
Jenem said:
i didn't really want to get into this conversation, but this point keeps coming to mind. if we are talking about marriage vows and the "ifs" of what Terri wanted, who is to say she would want her husband to have to live married to her like that for the rest of his life? i know if i were in her condition i wouldn't want my husband to be burdened with me like that, regardless of our vows. i'd want him to go and have the life we had hoped to have together, find someone else and have a family. if Michael is such a cruel brute, why didn't he just divorce Terri and let her parents deal with her?
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Im not saying he shouldnt have moved on, but why, if he is not living by the 'rules' of marriage, why were Terri and her family forced to live by those rules? If we can make that allowance for one partner in this, why not the other?

I also think he should have divorced her and given guardianship to her parents way back when he found someone to move on with.
 
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