Earthlings
New Member
Is anyone reading this? I really enjoyed Pattern Recognition and am about to start Gibson's new book. Any thoughts on it?
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William Gibson: Spook Country
- Thread starter Earthlings
- Start date
I saw this at Powell's last week and I wanted to buy it but passed because I wanted to try and secure a signed copy. I watched a promo for it on William Gibson's blog and it looks very interesting. I read Pattern Recognition and enjoyed it but not as much as his futuristic cyberpunk novels.
I saw this book at Costco yesterday for $15 but decided not to buy it... I was in a hurry, maybe I should have...I am loving Neuromancer.
Be advised that Spook Country is more of a contemporary piece than futuristic.
beer good
Well-Known Member
Spook Country.
Core dump of brain in progress - please stand back
Way back before music went digital, John Prine wrote this:
We are living in the future, tell you how I know:
I read it in the paper - Fifteen years ago
When William Gibson starts using the word "cyberspace" as a plot point, you sit up and take notice. And when he starts talking about virtual reality, dont' start shaking your head. Yeah, that stuff with the plastic helmets and the boxy graphics has seemed like a very old and useless party trick since back in the 90s. But what Gibson is aiming for here is not so much a virtual reality novel as a post-VR novel - in the same sense that "post-modern" doesn't mean "non-modern" or "post-9/11" doesn't mean "we've forgotten 9/11". It's about what happens when something has become so embedded in reality that it IS reality; it's, funnily enough, a novel about borders. Or perhaps, the absence of them.
We're all driving rocket ships and talkin' with our minds
Wearin' turquoise jewelry and standing in soup lines.
Core dump of brain in progress - please stand back
Way back before music went digital, John Prine wrote this:
We are living in the future, tell you how I know:
I read it in the paper - Fifteen years ago
When William Gibson starts using the word "cyberspace" as a plot point, you sit up and take notice. And when he starts talking about virtual reality, dont' start shaking your head. Yeah, that stuff with the plastic helmets and the boxy graphics has seemed like a very old and useless party trick since back in the 90s. But what Gibson is aiming for here is not so much a virtual reality novel as a post-VR novel - in the same sense that "post-modern" doesn't mean "non-modern" or "post-9/11" doesn't mean "we've forgotten 9/11". It's about what happens when something has become so embedded in reality that it IS reality; it's, funnily enough, a novel about borders. Or perhaps, the absence of them.
Spook Country takes place in a world where cyberspace has indeed everted, become just another aspect of the world; just as the world has shrunk to the place where geographical borders, however well-guarded, can be easily crossed if you know how (after all, what is an illegal immigrant but a real-life hacker penetrating a system with lots of black ICE?). Any reality which involves GPS locators, WiFi networks everywhere, and entire lives being carried in little memory sticks is to some extent virtual. Reality is tagged like a wiki; street artists in Gibson's now don't use spray cans, they use laptops and 3D renderings that only make sense to those in the know to make their mark on the world. The characters, as well-drawn and as human as they are, to some extent come off as avatars – each with their own title, picture and online persona in a world that's always online.
Now, this obviously addresses some timely issues - and surprisingly enough, by the last 100 pages as the plot becomes clearer, I'm reminded very strongly of Thomas Pynchon's Against the Day. I'm not in any way suggesting that Gibson ripped Pynchon off, just that they do seem to have tapped into some of the same concerns. The informal secret-by-default societies and underground movements, the fractured narrative, the promise of a brave new world around the corner, the "resistance"... it's all vintage Pynchon themes, but Gibson being Gibson, he takes it to different (and considerably less opinionated) places. I'm also reminded of something Umberto Eco wrote in Turning Back the Clock, which I've unfortunately lent to a friend, but which goes something along the lines of how the "Big Brother is watching you" theme is hopelessly antiquated; it can be much scarier to live in a world with 6 billion big brothers all watching each other with no way of knowing who is working for whom.
Spook Country is a very multifaceted novel, touching upon technology, religion, politics, art, war, capitalism... One of those facets is a thriller, and much like with Pattern Recognition, I find myself intrigued more by the setup than with the actual plot resolution. Not so much because some of it's been done before [hide](been watching Goldfinger, William?)[/hide] but because it feels like there's something disjointed here; as if he hasn't quite thought the plot through all the way, and drops some of the interesting observations on the world in favour of a more plot-driven approach and a somewhat unsatisfactory ending about 2/3 in. It's still very intriguing – hell, I read the last 130 pages or so in one sitting – but some part of me still feels like it's a great exhibition followed by a slightly flawed dismount. His repeating some of the plot devices from Pattern Recognition probably adds to that. That's probably the reason I find myself thinking it could have been better, and I'm only going to give it a strong 4/5. But on a whole, it's a fascinating and more than slightly spooky novel. It feels like Gibson has come full circle, catching up to his younger self as the world has caught up to what, back then, sounded like science fiction, only now with much more meat on his bones. We are living in the future,
We're all driving rocket ships and talkin' with our minds
Wearin' turquoise jewelry and standing in soup lines.
Wow. That was a great review that managed to not give away any plot points. Good job!
It's funny - from reading the description of the book from William Gibson's website, you get the feel that the novel is more of a contemporary piece much like Pattern Recognition but from your description it is obviously not.
It's funny - from reading the description of the book from William Gibson's website, you get the feel that the novel is more of a contemporary piece much like Pattern Recognition but from your description it is obviously not.
beer good
Well-Known Member
Oh, it's absolutely a contemporary piece. There's (virtually (hehe)) no technology in it that isn't in wide use today. We ARE living in the future.
You're absolutely right. Aside from flying cars, we are indeed living in the future and this future is more like a William Gibson novel than a Star Trek novel.
I have started this last night, and it's not really gripping me.
I'm not sure if I would have picked that to be the first read from him. It's next on my pile to be read.
Neuromancer and Count Zero are good; however, I would suggest "The Bridge" trilogy as a first timer's foray into Gibson. They are Virtual Light, Idoru, and All Tomorrow's Parties.
beer good
Well-Known Member
I'd suggest Pattern Recognition; I remember liking his early books as well - it's been years since I read them - but they are VERY different from the stuff he's writing now, even if he does touch upon some of the same themes.
The real-time image overlay and tagging of 3-D space that Gibson was talking about in Spook Country is progressing nicely, but in 2-D for now. Something like this was inconceivable 3-5 years ago.
I am convinced that William Gibson is either:
1. Subscribing to some tech journal I don't know about.
2. Can see into the future and is perhaps in possession of a time machine.
3. Really good at foreseeing emerging uses of technology.
I'm leaning towards #2.
I am convinced that William Gibson is either:
1. Subscribing to some tech journal I don't know about.
2. Can see into the future and is perhaps in possession of a time machine.
3. Really good at foreseeing emerging uses of technology.
I'm leaning towards #2.
beer good
Well-Known Member
Zero History.
The future keeps coming closer. To quote a common statistic, it took radio 38 years to reach 50 million users, the Internet 4 years, Facebook less than a year to reach 200 million...
So it makes sense that the horizon comes closer for William Gibson too. He made his fame with futuristic cyberpunk novels about virtual reality, then over the last decade realised that this is the virtual reality and instead started looking at our world as it currently stands (or will in 18 months), how technology influences us now - but also how we influence it, what we try to do with it, and what it says about us. Zero History is the third (and final?) part of the series that started with Pattern Recognition and continued with Spook Country, loosely centered around the ad man (Mad Man?) Hubertus Bigend and his quest to track future trends - to get only a few seconds head start over his competitors. It's also the one where it feels like Gibson's been left behind by the technological developments, finally abandoning ante- for all-out post-.
It's no big surprise, really. I mean, remember the stuff that sounded futuristic in Pattern Recognition, the enhanced reality, geocaching and stuff? You can download a dozen apps for that right now if you want. If anything, Gibson's avatar (heh) in this novel seems to be Milgrim, the former junkie who after 10 years of being otherwise occupied is utterly baffled by the idea of Twitter. Which actually works rather well with the plot, which looks forward by looking back. This time, Bigend sends his troops after... a pair of jeans. No, really. The argument is that since everything the US Military has worn or used over the last century (the t-shirt, the marching boot, the cargo pants, the jeep, the Humvee) has become streetwear for the common man, but we're now living in a post-postmodern world where originals imitate copies, if you want a military contract (a certain cash cow in the days of perpetual war) you need to find the perfect pair of jeans to sell them. To find, if you will, the Platonic idea of it, beneath the clutter of brands and hype and design that the 20th century put on... well, everything from jeans to political ideas.
That's not to say it's bad; if you liked the last two - at least one of which is a masterpiece, IMO - you should definitely give Zero History a spin too. If nothing else, there's a surprise cameo towards the end that'll give you a huge smile. But Gibson has done better.
The future keeps coming closer. To quote a common statistic, it took radio 38 years to reach 50 million users, the Internet 4 years, Facebook less than a year to reach 200 million...
So it makes sense that the horizon comes closer for William Gibson too. He made his fame with futuristic cyberpunk novels about virtual reality, then over the last decade realised that this is the virtual reality and instead started looking at our world as it currently stands (or will in 18 months), how technology influences us now - but also how we influence it, what we try to do with it, and what it says about us. Zero History is the third (and final?) part of the series that started with Pattern Recognition and continued with Spook Country, loosely centered around the ad man (Mad Man?) Hubertus Bigend and his quest to track future trends - to get only a few seconds head start over his competitors. It's also the one where it feels like Gibson's been left behind by the technological developments, finally abandoning ante- for all-out post-.
It's no big surprise, really. I mean, remember the stuff that sounded futuristic in Pattern Recognition, the enhanced reality, geocaching and stuff? You can download a dozen apps for that right now if you want. If anything, Gibson's avatar (heh) in this novel seems to be Milgrim, the former junkie who after 10 years of being otherwise occupied is utterly baffled by the idea of Twitter. Which actually works rather well with the plot, which looks forward by looking back. This time, Bigend sends his troops after... a pair of jeans. No, really. The argument is that since everything the US Military has worn or used over the last century (the t-shirt, the marching boot, the cargo pants, the jeep, the Humvee) has become streetwear for the common man, but we're now living in a post-postmodern world where originals imitate copies, if you want a military contract (a certain cash cow in the days of perpetual war) you need to find the perfect pair of jeans to sell them. To find, if you will, the Platonic idea of it, beneath the clutter of brands and hype and design that the 20th century put on... well, everything from jeans to political ideas.
So Gibson launches a plot that gives him plenty of excuses to comment on how we function, both as a society and as individuals shaping and being shaped by it, and how there's always something underneath our fascination with the New (and why we increasingly want it to look like something Old). We get rock stars turning themselves into secret agents, secret agents turning themselves into fashion icons, mobsters becoming A-list celebrities or the other way around, and... oddly enough, his most coherent plot in years also becomes his least interesting one. While Zero History has a lot to recommend it - particularly on the character side - it also plods along far too often, losing track of its ideas under all the namedropping, car chases and flying penguins (no, really). Oddly enough, for a novel about stripping away it gets awfully cluttered, and for a novel about the proximity of the future, it takes a little too long for me to feel the need to finish it.
That's not to say it's bad; if you liked the last two - at least one of which is a masterpiece, IMO - you should definitely give Zero History a spin too. If nothing else, there's a surprise cameo towards the end that'll give you a huge smile. But Gibson has done better.
I can't wait to read my copy.
OK, I read this during my last trip and I really enjoyed it. It made me realize that I should reread Spook Country to find Milgrim.
I especially liked
One thing about this latest trilogy from Gibson that I either hate or totally dig (and I don't know which it is) is the ultra exclusivity of almost everything that revolves around his characters, from music to hotels to clothing. It's like they are too hip for hipsters.
I especially liked
the special guest cameo by Cayce Pollard. Also: Milgrim and Fiona? Didn't see that one coming. Seriously. Ditto for the identity of Fiona's mom.
One thing about this latest trilogy from Gibson that I either hate or totally dig (and I don't know which it is) is the ultra exclusivity of almost everything that revolves around his characters, from music to hotels to clothing. It's like they are too hip for hipsters.
beer good
Well-Known Member
Oh yes. That bit had me grinning like a loony fanboy for a whole day.