Words Needed

[Libre]

It occurred to me recently that the English language (and perhaps all or most other languages) is missing several important words.
Shouldn't there be a different word for a female sibling of a male as opposed to a female sibling of a female - not just "sister", and correspondingly, a male sibling of a male versus a male sibling of a female - not just "brother"? If I write, "My sister and I went bowling" you know that I went with my sister, a female, but you don't know my gender from what I wrote, so that is ambiguous. I think sister-brother, sister-sister, and brother-brother relationships are different enough to warrent different words. Any suggestions?

 

[mehastings]

I think sister-brother, sister-sister, and brother-brother relationships are different enough to warrent different words.

Hmm. I'm not sure if that is always true. There are a lot of factors that make sibling relationships different, not just sex. In fact, I think the sex of my three siblings does has nothing to do with the relationships I have with them. I agree that just sister and brother are limiting and give little information about the nature of the relationship. I have two younger brothers. One is the middle child and one is the youngest. I wish there was a way I could describe the middle child. I can't call him my older brother (even though he is the older of the two) because he isn't older than me. I don't want to call him my younger brother because to me that is reserved for the other, younger one. I can't call him my middle brother because that infers that there are more than two of them. I've also got a sister. She's ten years younger than I am. We don't have the same biological parents, and the only parent we have in common is my dad who adopted her a few years ago. I had no relationship with her, my dad or her mother from the time she was six until the time she was fourteen. She was adopted somewhere in that timeframe. Do I call her my step sister? Half sister? Sister?

 

[Libre]

Hmm. I'm not sure if that is always true. There are a lot of factors that make sibling relationships different, not just sex.

I agree with that totally. Yet, gender IS one of the more important characteristics. That's why we have "sister" and "brother" and not just the androgenous "sibling". I realize there are all sorts of other influences on sibling relationships - as you say: age, bio parents, and other factors. Yet, gender is a real biggie. Two sisters or two brothers bring to mind a very different scenario than a sister and a brother.

 

[Jemima Aslana]

I'd have to say: If I'm talking to a person who's telling me he went bowling with his sister I don't need anything instead of the word 'sister' to tell me that the GUY I'm talking to is a guy. I'd think that info would come from context. So I disagree with you on the need for that particular word. I see no reason to have it. If I'm telling someone about my sister I would generally expect them to already be aware of my gender.

English needs a word for the Danish/Scandinavian concept of 'hygge'. It's a combination of 'coziness' and 'nice atmosphere' and 'being together'... but it has no equivalent in the English language. And when you go a little deeper I find that we have vastly different traditions concerning these things too, so perhaps it's not so weird English does not have that word, simply because you do not have the concept we boast in Scandinavia.

It's awfully difficult to explain exactly what exactly it is, though, what with not having that bloody word

 

[novella]

I don't understand why you would want a word that identifies the sex of the speaker in only these cases.

Wouldn't you also then want a whole double language in which all women are identified by the language they use, and men the same? For instance, when a speaker refers to her pair of socks, do we need to know that those socks are HER (a woman's) socks? What's the difference between the possession/relationship of the speaker to an object or any other person, as opposed to a sibling? Are relationships between women different from relationsihps between men in general? Are the socks of a woman significantly different than the socks of a man? Or is it important that we need to know what kind of person is speaking?

Maybe there should also be 'identifiers' for different ages and races?

 

[Stewart]

English needs a word for the Danish/Scandinavian concept of 'hygge'. It's a combination of 'coziness' and 'nice atmosphere' and 'being together'... but it has no equivalent in the English language.

snug? .......

 

[novella]

I think the English word HUG is related to HYGGE.

So perhaps it's similar to a group hug with beer and warm lighting.

 

[Libre]

Are relationships between women different from relationsihps between men in general?

**********Yes

 

[novella]

Okay, duh. I think you have to take the question in context to understand exactly what I'm asking.

 

[Kenny Shovel]

The English language is probably one of the most democratic you will find; we have no equivalent of 'Académie française' to determine what words are worthy enough to become official.

If you think there is something missing, then invent a word or import one from another language; if your word is picked up and used by enough people it will eventually find its way into the Oxford Standard Dictionary. Hundreds of new words, invented, slang or imported, find themselves incorporated like this every year.

Edit: The general idea with English is that Dictionaries are a reflection of what the language is at that time, not what an official body thinks it should be.

Some slang words can find themselves included after only a year or two of popular usage, so start using your new words now. First TBF member to get a word in the OSD gets a book token* (the gift that keeps on giving).




*I have no intention of honouring this offer.

 

[sirmyk]

If you are saying "my sister is a bitch", one will most likely identify that you, the speaker, are female (based on your voice). If you are writing "my sister is a bitch", why do we need to know in that sentence whether or not the speaker is female? Shouldn't we, the reader, understand that by other factors in your writing?

For example: "I was unstrapping my bra when my bitch of a sister slapped me upside the head..."

When you write you develop a voice, which others should pick up on as either male or female.

 

[novella]

Ah, bitch.

My mother-in-law constantly refers to the family dog as the bitch, but in England that's just considered correct. I can't make myself use the word that way after a lifetime of calling horrible women bitches.

 

[Kenny Shovel]

...For example: "I was unstrapping my bra when my bitch of a sister slapped me upside the head..."

Rising obesity rates may make this example increasingly inaccurate…

 

[mehastings]

For example: "I was unstrapping my bra when my bitch of a sister slapped me upside the head..."

That doesn't necessarily betray a person's gender though....

 

[Libre]

Okay, duh. I think you have to take the question in context to understand exactly what I'm asking.

Well, I did read the context and I do think I understand what you are asking, and I DO think that same-sex relationships are fundamentally different from opposite-sex relationships.

Let me put my own question into context. In another thread I just started called The Ethicist, I wrote about a person in a moral quandary about whether this person should donate part of her (or his) liver to her (or his) estranged sister. THis person wrote into an advice column asking for guidance. From the way it was written, I was picturing a woman in the quandary, but as I reviewed her (his) letter, I realized that was only an assumption. Although the letter revealed some personal facts about the situation, there was NOTHING identifying the gender of the writer.

You know, a person's gender, in my opinion, is a very basic fact about them - more basic even than their age or their race - their job or almost anything else.

If I had to describe my most basic self in as few words as possible - let's say only 2, I would identify myself as a human male.

 

[Kookamoor]

You know, a person's gender, in my opinion, is a very basic fact about them - more basic even than their age or their race - their job or almost anything else.

Yes, I agree. I'm just thinking about some of the errors I've made assuming people online are a sex opposite to what I thought they were. When I find out, it's shocking/surprising/amusing, and really changes the way I think about them. Should it? That's another question. I can only tell you that it does. Essentially language is about communication, and if there is something fundamental to the communication that is being omitted then there's a problem. That being said, having gender neutral language can be a benefit as well, particularly when applying for a job when you do not want that information to count for or against you.

 

[Jemima Aslana]

snug? .......

Not at all. A 'hygge' situation could be a family spending time together making Christmas decorations or something. It can be many things. Coming home from a cold walk and share a pot of warm tea. It's mostly about enjoying the company of others, though not as physical as the hug novella refers to.

The word may be related, I don't know, but hugs aren't a necessary ingredient in hygge. It's a feeling, an atmosphere and rather difficult to describe. The English words I can think of either become too focused on the surroundings rather than the people or they become too physical between the people. It's somewhere inbetween.

 

[Jemima Aslana]

@ the gender determination thing.

In Danish we have a word for the woman who is your mother's sister - moster.
And a word for your father's sister - faster.
And a word for the woman who married a parent's brother - tante = aunt.

An aunt is per definition someone that is not blood-related to you. Do people use these distinctions? Only old people and old-fashioned people like myself. It's too advanced.

We have a word for father's brother - farbror
And for mother's brother - morbror
And for the man who married a parent's sister - onkel = uncle

What do we use for all three? You guessed it, uncle, because no one bothers with the distinctions - except for me and other old-fashioned people.

We have a word for a female cousin - kusine
And one for a male cousin - fætter.

And these two are the only ones in use consistently because we don't have the third option to put in. Though with the great influence of English which only has the word cousin, which is obviously the same word as kusine, I think in 20 years we may be calling both genders kusine.

People, when talking seldom go for precision when it makes things more complex, they take what's the easiest.

We have a word for mother's mother - mormor
And for father's mother - farmor
For mother's father - morfar
And for father's father - farfar

But that's too complicated so a lot of people call them all 'grannies' which in Danish is 'bedste' [beste], and the slightly more specific term equal to granma/granpa namely bedstemor/bedstefar.

I, as you may have guessed, use the exact terms that are slightly old-fashioned by now. I've never used 'bedste' in reference to any of my grandparents.

When words such as these are so slowly but steadily nonetheless slipping out of use where we actually have them, I doubt it'd be possible to introduce new ones. They simply wouldn't be used on a wide enough scale. at least not until the entire population has achieved a whole new level of language awareness.

Free university education for everyone!!!!!

*cough* Okay , I'm alright now.

 

[Sergo]

It occurred to me recently that the English language (and perhaps all or most other languages) is missing several important words.
Shouldn't there be a different word for a female sibling of a male as opposed to a female sibling of a female - not just "sister", and correspondingly, a male sibling of a male versus a male sibling of a female - not just "brother"? If I write, "My sister and I went bowling" you know that I went with my sister, a female, but you don't know my gender from what I wrote, so that is ambiguous. I think sister-brother, sister-sister, and brother-brother relationships are different enough to warrent different words. Any suggestions?

Oh, it's easy, look here:
пошел = I (man) went...
пошла = I (woman) went...
We have this problem straightened out in Russian, so all you have to do is swith to our beautiful language.

 

[Sergo]

Yes, I agree. I'm just thinking about some of the errors I've made assuming people online are a sex opposite to what I thought they were. When I find out, it's shocking/surprising/amusing, and really changes the way I think about them. Should it? That's another question. I can only tell you that it does. Essentially language is about communication, and if there is something fundamental to the communication that is being omitted then there's a problem. That being said, having gender neutral language can be a benefit as well, particularly when applying for a job when you do not want that information to count for or against you.

Ha. There is quite an interesting angle in that: what sex your nickname & avatar is?
Several years ago I used to frequent one of our Russian forums, and I used name "Canary Bird" there. (I started in the thread on the problem of Dogs' Abuse there, so I thought up some moking story with a Canary Bird in it, hence the nickname). That was the reason for many funny revelations, when newcomers thought me to be a female, as Bird is a female in Russian...
And there were an Angel there. Naturally I thought that were a girl... He turned to be a big fat man of my own age.