Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince - Discussion *Spoiler Alert*

Worm said:

Obviously he wont.Hadnt he had help in all the previous encounters.But now,without Dumbledore,how would he manage to get to them? And how much Dumbledore's potrait could help him ?If he goes to hogwarts.

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I wonder if he's even going to return to Hogwarts. Once he's of age, he's on the hunt.

Robert said:

Once he's of age, he's on the hunt.

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What does it mean , Robert ?

Worm said:

What does it mean , Robert ?

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He's of age (an adult) when he turns 17. I believe that's when he intends to go looking for the horacroxes and the showdown with Voldemort.

That'll be the Seventh book ?

Worm said:

That'll be Seventh book ?

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That's the way it looks. But you never know until it happens.

I think we'll see Hogwarts again. I believe that Harry will go back at least to get the sword of Gryffindor - I think it still has a role to play...

I'm intrigued by the idea that Harry's scar is another horcrux. I mean, when they went through what could be horcruxes (horcruxi?) they didn't seem definite about the snake... The fact that Harry is so closely linked to Voldemort may be because he in fact has a tiny piece of Voldemort's soul in him. The death to accomplish it would have been Lily's. However, because of the nature of her sacrifice, the horcrux is not as strong as it might have been?? Okay, at this point, I'm outright guessing! But Harry being a horcrux would account for the Gryffindor part of it, since the sword isn't a horcrux.

I don't believe for a minute that Harry's scar is a horcrux. Voldemort would not have tried to kill him in book four if Harry's scar was a horcrux.

What part do you think the sword of Gryffindor will play? What makes it important?

magemanda said:

I think we'll see Hogwarts again.

I'm intrigued by the idea that Harry's scar is another horcrux.

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I agree that we have not seen the last of Hogwarts. I think that Harry will still go back to the school to check up on members of the order and his friends. When he turns 17 this coming summer, he can join the order right?

If Professor McGonagall remains as headmistress of Hogwarts than there are two available job positions at Hogwarts. I found it funny that nobody has been able to last more than a year as professor of defense against the dark arts since Voldermort was denied the job. I guess it really is cursed as Harry and Ron thought at one point during there time at Hogwarts.

Harry is not a horacrux. Dumbledore said that the reason Voldermort could not reside in Harry or possess him was because Harry has so much love flowing through him, a magic that Voldermort despises and knows nothing of, so for Voldermort to inhabit Harry, it causes him great pain and suffering. I don’t think Voldermort would go to all that trouble just to hide part of his soul. Voldermort is also trying to kill Harry (obviously). If he were to destroy Harry he would also destroy his horacrux in the process. With the amount of skill that it takes to create these and how precious they are, I don’t think Voldermort would waste it.

I wonder if the person that Voldermort kills to create the horacrux has any affect on the horacrux’s strength or size of the soul. I am wondering if in Voldermort’s haste to create the magic number (7) before killing Harry, he was 1 short when he arrived to Godric’s Hallow. Since Dumbledore thinks that Nagili (?) was used because he didn’t have time to find a better relic, that also might mean that he waited until the last possible minute (hoping to find something better to serve as his horacrux) to create the horacrux. Maybe, since his intended last murder before advancing to Harry, was James Potter, Voldermort used Harry’s father to create the horacrux. Just a guess, but if this were true, I wonder what (if any) significance this would have on the horacrux, and Harry in his quest to destroy them.

Didn't Dumbledore already determine that Nagili wasn't a horcrux?

Interesting to think that Voldemort may have been waiting until after killing Harry to create the last one. The plot thickens...

Yes he did, but as usual it was a bunch of guesswork...but then again Dumbledore's guesswork has a good chance of always coming true.

I'm trying to get the seven horacruxs straight. So far the ones we know of are:
1. The Ring (ha) destroyed
2. The Necklace missing/taken by RAB
3. The Diary destroyed
4. The Ravenclaw artifact ??
5. The Griffindor artifact ??
6. Nagini
7. The Hufflepuff artifact??

Another theory I am trying to work out is that, as we know, in destroying the ring, Dumbledore was severely injured/cursed and it was through Snape's efforts that Dumbledore was saved. If the the curse was only delayed or slowed down by Snape, then Dumbledore would obviously know that he had a short time to accomplish everything he could before his death. Which would also be another explanation for all the new references to his age/ill health. Also, his increased efforts in searching out Voldemorts past. Remember in past years, he never had the long absenses from school without the interference of someone else (Malfoy, Umbridge). And spending more time with Harry trying to prepare him for what was to come. He may have also arranged that Snape kill him to allow Snape to keep his place in the death eaters and not break the unbreakable vow. Knowing that he was dying anyway, Dumbledore just had to convince Snape to do it.

I'm convinced that Snape is still a good guy in the sense that he is on the Order's side. He is still human though and absolutely hated James and Sirius.

I do think that he may have had a much different relationship with Lily. We have heard over and over again that anyone who met her loved her. We also learned in this book that she was something of a Potions wiz, therefore probably had lots of classes with Snape. We only saw that one time where he called her a mudblood to illustrate his thoughts about her. We also have seen how Snape will strike out in anger, hurt and humilation. I think he was just so upset that day on the lawn with James and Sirius that he snapped at her. We've heard how much Snape hated James but only that one little scene about Lily.

Anyway... still trying to figure things out.

Scout said:

Another theory I am trying to work out is that, as we know, in destroying the ring, Dumbledore was severely injured/cursed and it was through Snape's efforts that Dumbledore was saved. If the the curse was only delayed or slowed down by Snape, then Dumbledore would obviously know that he had a short time to accomplish everything he could before his death. Which would also be another explanation for all the new references to his age/ill health. Also, his increased efforts in searching out Voldemorts past. Remember in past years, he never had the long absenses from school without the interference of someone else (Malfoy, Umbridge). And spending more time with Harry trying to prepare him for what was to come. He may have also arranged that Snape kill him to allow Snape to keep his place in the death eaters and not break the unbreakable vow. Knowing that he was dying anyway, Dumbledore just had to convince Snape to do it.

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This is what I thought - that Dumbledore had taken irreparable damage and was perhaps dying anyway, thus the reason he pleaded with Snape to kill him.

Well, I ran across some interesting items surfing around the Potter net! I saw in this Entertainment Weekly Prediction list that Aberforth Dumbledore, Albus' brother, is the barkeep at the Hog's Head. Now I feel pretty silly for not knowing that, but I read absolutely no gossip etc. after book 5 and I'm pretty bad at clues. I would not make a good detective. So I searched around and found this confirmation from JKR:

Why is the barman of the Hog’s Head vaguely familiar to Harry? Is he Dumbledore’s brother?

Ooh—you are getting good. Why do you think that it is Aberforth? [Audience member: Various clues. He smells of goats and he looks a bit like Dumbledore]. I was quite proud of that clue. That is all that I am going to say. [Laughter]. Well yes, obviously. I like the goat clue—I sniggered to myself about that one.

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So is this the member of the Order of the Phoenix that will become more prominent in book 7? And will Aberforth be able to help Harry find the rest of the Horcruxes?

While I was searching around for that I found this:

All the paintings we have seen at Hogwarts are of dead people. They seem to be living through their portraits. How is this so? If there was a painting of Harry’s parents, would he be able to obtain advice from them?

That is a very good question. They are all of dead people; they are not as fully realised as ghosts, as you have probably noticed. The place where you see them really talk is in Dumbledore’s office, primarily; the idea is that the previous headmasters and headmistresses leave behind a faint imprint of themselves. They leave their aura, almost, in the office and they can give some counsel to the present occupant, but it is not like being a ghost. They repeat catchphrases, almost. The portrait of Sirius’ mother is not a very 3D personality; she is not very fully realised. She repeats catchphrases that she had when she was alive. If Harry had a portrait of his parents it would not help him a great deal. If he could meet them as ghosts, that would be a much more meaningful interaction, but as Nick explained at the end of Phoenix—I am straying into dangerous territory, but I think you probably know what he explained—there are some people who would not come back as ghosts because they are unafraid, or less afraid, of death.

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So there you go. I'm not sure how much the painting of Dumbledore is going to be able to help. But I'm very intrigued about Aberforth.

The information was from this interview JKR gave at the Edinburgh Book Festival. Transcription from her site.

Scout said:

I'm trying to get the seven horacruxs straight. So far the ones we know of are:
1. The Ring (ha) destroyed
2. The Necklace missing/taken by RAB
3. The Diary destroyed
4. The Ravenclaw artifact ??
5. The Griffindor artifact ??
6. Nagini
7. The Hufflepuff artifact??

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The horacruxes are not correct.
the seventh part/horacrux is what still resides in Voldermort himself. So the ones with question marks are combined all into one catagory. As Dumbledore said, the only thing that he can think of belonging to Gryffindor is the sword itself. So that would eliminate him from the list of possible horacrux relic contributors. Voldermort has Hufflepuff's cup so I think that is the Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff contribution to the horacrux relics.

Scout said:

Another theory I am trying to work out is that, as we know, in destroying the ring, Dumbledore was severely injured/cursed and it was through Snape's efforts that Dumbledore was saved. If the the curse was only delayed or slowed down by Snape, then Dumbledore would obviously know that he had a short time to accomplish everything he could before his death. Which would also be another explanation for all the new references to his age/ill health. Also, his increased efforts in searching out Voldemorts past. Remember in past years, he never had the long absenses from school without the interference of someone else (Malfoy, Umbridge). And spending more time with Harry trying to prepare him for what was to come. He may have also arranged that Snape kill him to allow Snape to keep his place in the death eaters and not break the unbreakable vow. Knowing that he was dying anyway, Dumbledore just had to convince Snape to do it.

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I think that you are right about the cursed ring. Except until you begin saying that Dumbledore recently began his search into Voldermort's past. I think that Dumbledore has been trying to collect memories from Voldermorts past since Voldermort's return. Although he was unable to find any until this year. I agree with you about the new refrences to Dumbledore's age, it seemed that this year marked his downfall and it began as a snowball at the top of a hill, growing with speed and size as it approaches the bottom of the hill.

Scout said:

He may have also arranged that Snape kill him to allow Snape to keep his place in the death eaters and not break the unbreakable vow. Knowing that he was dying anyway, Dumbledore just had to convince Snape to do it.

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I don't think Dumbledore realized he was going to die when he arrived at the school. I don't think it was until Malfoy began gloating about what he had done until Dumbledore realized he was going to die. In order to protect Harry from what unknown lied ahead in the school, Dumbledore did the only thing he could, make him invisable to those around him. When Snape showed up Dumbledore then knew that in order to keep his image, he needed to kill the dying man. I don't think that Snape killing Dumbledore was planned, although Snape is so unreadable it is hard to tell.

The one thing that I don't understand is that when Harry is trying to kill Lestrange in book 5, she tells him you can't just say the words, you have to mean them and feel the hatred. I don't think that Snape could just feign that hatred. It had to be sincer, and it appeared to be so. As Harry said, nobody is that good of an actor.

h_carnahan said:

The horacruxes are not correct.
the seventh part/horacrux is what still resides in Voldermort himself. So the ones with question marks are combined all into one catagory. As Dumbledore said, the only thing that he can think of belonging to Gryffindor is the sword itself. So that would eliminate him from the list of possible horacrux relic contributors. Voldermort has Hufflepuff's cup so I think that is the Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff contribution to the horacrux relics.

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Good point about Voldemort being the 7th piece. Dumbledore said Nagini isn't a horacrux, so there may yet be a relic/horcrux from both Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff.

h_carnahan said:

The one thing that I don't understand is that when Harry is trying to kill Lestrange in book 5, she tells him you can't just say the words, you have to mean them and feel the hatred. I don't think that Snape could just feign that hatred. It had to be sincer, and it appeared to be so. As Harry said, nobody is that good of an actor.

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This is an interesting argument, carnahan.

Robert said:

Dumbledore said Nagini isn't a horacrux, so there may yet be a relic/horcrux from both Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff.

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Dumbledore never said that Nagini was not a horacrux:

"...he used Nagini to kill an old Muggle man, and it might have then occurred to him to turn her into his last Horacrux. She underlines the Slytherin connection, which enhances Lord Voldermort's mystique; I think he is perhaps as fond of her as he can be on anything; he certainly lkes to keep her close, and he seems to have an unusual amount of control over her, even for a Parselmouth."

But when I was searching for that part I also found this:

"...Voldermort was still at least one Horacrux short of his goal of six when he entered your parents' house with the intentions of killing you....I am sure that he was intending to make his final Horacrux with your [Harry's] death."

It seems strange to me that Voldermort would knowingly go to defeat the one who could defeat him, not as powerful or well standing as he could possibly be. He was either very cocky or just plain stupid.

I thought this one wasnt as well written as the others. I prefered the mad, shouting harry to dumblodores golden boy who is always perfect and has the perfect girlfriend and the quidditch captain and the teachers pet i mean come on, there was loads of action in the first 5 books, this one was fairly boring apart from the horcruxs. Even dumbledores death was boring. It was malfoy first and you could see him weakening, becuase he didnt want to kill DD. then the deatheaters come out and they are all telling him to kill him. and to be honest i still thought he wouldnt do it. the snape comes out, walks over to him and POP hes gone. it was poorly written. you had no idea it was going to happen then and it suddenly did. She could have drawn it out longer so that you were fearing for DD life. Or some sort of bigger impact later on harry like with sirius when he shouts at everyone.

"The death to accomplish it would have been Lily's. However, because of the nature of her sacrifice, the horcrux is not as strong as it might have been?? Okay, at this point, I'm outright guessing! But Harry being a horcrux would account for the Gryffindor part of it, since the sword isn't a horcrux.

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I dont think harry is a horcrux, becasue when voldemort tried to kill him i assumed that he was instantly defeated. that would mean he could not have time to make him a horcrux.

"...Voldermort was still at least one Horacrux short of his goal of six when he entered your parents' house with the intentions of killing you....I am sure that he was intending to make his final Horacrux with your [Harry's] death."

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Dumbledore seems to know a lot about Voldmorts horcruxs, surely he would know if harry was one or not.

The R.A.B fits into the necklace theory, but where is it now? didnt they throw it away, or did mungdunglas or watever steal it??

The bit at the end where harry dumps ginny so she can be safe. PURLEASE!!! how cheesy it that bit???

*~EMMER~* said:

The R.A.B fits into the necklace theory, but where is it now? didnt they throw it away, or did mungdunglas or watever steal it??

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I am confused. What do you mean the necklace theory? Do you mean where is the necklace now? If that is what you are refering to I believe that Harry still has it in his posession and nobody knows about it or the horacruxes except for RAB, Slughorn and Harry as of know, or at least Rowling has led us to believe this is true. I doubt that Mugdungus would steal the necklace even if he did knwo of its great value (but mind you, Harry has the fake necklace so I don't think it holds a value anyway) because Dumbledore nearly died to get that necklace and because of the strength that the ordeal took out of him, he died because of the necklace in a way. Mugdungus may be a common criminal but he also has respect for Dumbledore and a heart.

*~EMMER~* said:

The bit at the end where harry dumps ginny so she can be safe. PURLEASE!!! how cheesy it that bit???

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As cheesy as the ending is, I think it was necessary. Rowling shows insite into Harry's feelings. At this point, Harry has lost everyone he has loved and all those that he has grown attached to (excluding Hermione and Ron but he doesn't see them in the same eyes as those he has lost anyway). He severs his attachment in order to save her. I think this makes him more vulnerable and at the same time stronger and wiser as a character. Rowling shows that Harry is strategic and deeply hurt by Dumbledore's death with Harry's actions towards Ginny. I think this shows more than anything else that Harry is ready for what he is going to face.

h_carnahan said:

I am confused. What do you mean the necklace theory? Do you mean where is the necklace now? If that is what you are refering to I believe that Harry still has it in his posession and nobody knows about it or the horacruxes except for RAB, Slughorn and Harry as of know, or at least Rowling has led us to believe this is true. I doubt that Mugdungus would steal the necklace even if he did knwo of its great value (but mind you, Harry has the fake necklace so I don't think it holds a value anyway) because Dumbledore nearly died to get that necklace and because of the strength that the ordeal took out of him, he died because of the necklace in a way. Mugdungus may be a common criminal but he also has respect for Dumbledore and a heart.

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I think you will find that EMMER may be referring to the discussion held above where Sar proposed R.A.B. could possibly be Regulus Black. Thus Black may have taken the necklace to Grimauld Place, which Mundungus then looted. There was mention that a necklace was found at the house of Black which could not be opened.

I agree with a lot of what everyone is saying. I too drew the parallels between the dark mark and current world events. In a way it made the story more enjoyable for me though, it gave me an element of the story to relate to and draw from.

I too was saddened by the death at the end. Dumbledore was one of my favorite characters, and I worry about Harry in book 7 now that he won't be under the watch of Dumbledore. I will say that I think JKR was too influenced by the movies. The story became too predictable and was written cinematically. She's writing now with the screenplay in mind and it shows.

The horcrux and travels through people's memories was my favorite part, though I do wonder...is Harry one of the horcruxes???

I definitely have to read the book again. Like many others I read too fast and need to read it again more carefully.