A Glass Jar Filled With Flies

[Sitaram]

I met an interesting, philosophical fellow in a bookstore once, who posed the following question:

He said, "Imagine taking a large glass jar, filling it with flies, and sealing the lid. After a few hours, you place the glass jar in a furnace, and everything is incinerated. What remains of all those events which took place in that jar, those creatures which lived in there for a few hours, did things, experienced things, fought perhaps, mated perhaps, ate, slept? Is all that now, simply NOTHING, as if it had never been? Or did it make some difference? Is there anything that now remains?"

Obviously, by analogy, one might pose the same question regarding all of human life on earth, should the earth suddenly be destroyed.

A rough estimate was made, by mathematicians and biologists that the total number of humans ever to walk the earth to date is in the neighborhood of 155 billion.


The day may likely come when human life ceases on earth, through some catastrophe perhaps, or simply with the end of our sun. So, when it is all over, like those flies in the glass jar, then, what remains? Did the drama of human existence make any difference in the Universe or in the overall scheme of things?

I thought the question of "flies in a jar" interesting.

 

[Mari]

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour,
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned,
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour,
Of the galaxy we call the 'Milky Way'.

Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars.
It's a hundred thousand light years side to side.
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand light years thick,
But out by us, it's just three thousand light years wide.
We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point.
We go 'round every two hundred million years,
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe.

The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know,
Twelve million miles a minute, and that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth.

 

[SFG75]

To me, what we accomplished as living beings would matter. Our bridges, highways, and ships would let future beings(?) know about our high level of trade. From the various city halls and our national capital, they would surmise as to what our system was like. Our universities and schools would lead them to make positive conclusions about our education system and that it was very widespread compared to previous generations. Then again, they'd probably figure out how it is that we have ruined our planet through climate change and through our inability to solve problems amongst ourselves. Then again, all of this would require development of some intelligent being to figure these things out and that would take a great amount of time, as it took us a long time to move from homo erectus to becoming homo sapiens. I would say that it would matter only IF this occured, but by the time this happened, everyone who had lived on the earth had a chance to live life and to find meaning individually. By that standard alone, it all would've been worth it.

 

[Gem]

Interesting thread Sitaram, I've wondered about this myself.

Great posts Mari and SFG75.

There are times when i think that everything is worth nothing. Other times I believe that we do make a difference in the overall scheme of things. Its difficult to settle on one answer, because there are so many ways to consider this question and each way leads me to a different answer. Do we answer it rationally/logically, or religiously, spiritually,or even philosophically? I tendto get so lost in the question that the answer no longer becomes important.

Another aspect of it, is the whole 'Overall Scheme', what is this? if we don't know what the scheme is then how can we tell whether we make a difference to it? If the overall scheme is to exist then yes we do make a difference because just by having existed we help create something else.

 

[sirmyk]

Maybe it's the wo/man in the mirror, and we are simply his/her reflection...

 

[nighthawk]

I’ve often wondered about this too, and as Gem pointed out there are many ways to reply;
In response to SFG75's 'what we accomplish...' We might have made great advances but ecologically I think Man's presence on earth has certainly made a difference. If the 'Overall scheme' was that Man should be guardians of the planet, in my opinion he has failed miserably; being executioner rather than protector.

Incinerated remains? With flies, maybe traces, dust of wing and carcass, with man, his bones
are left, so if he did nothing else he would help replenish the earth he is so determined to destroy and have done some good. Ashes to ashes

But to our flies, or humans, in their jar, I would like to think that something remained apart from microscopic particles of blood and fiber, some energy, a captured essence of their lives. Love, hate, hunger, sex, are powerful emotions, surely there would be ‘something’.

If it were humans in that jar would we not want to believe some essence of us, our soul, would survive, be captured somehow? So, if the earth was destroyed 155 billion lives wiped out simultaneously, I may sound like a ScFi., nut or a religious crank, but I would like to believe that all those lives; their emotions, memories - their souls, still lived on to make a difference somewhere.

But isn’t that what religion is all about? We have to believe that when we die there is a continuance, a haven for lost souls, the happy hunting ground, otherwise we’d just be slipping into the abyss and for some, that’s scary.

Which also poses another question, do flies feel, think? Have emotions. Or is their whole life purely instinct? What if souls could be measured, would the contents of that jar fail to register or would the needle flicker?

You wanted musings.

 

[novella]

Just as a matter of fact, the amount of matter in the jar remains exactly the same, it just takes a different form. It, therefore, is not 'simply nothing.' That is physically impossible. The same is true for all life on earth. The amount of matter remains the same, whether it is imbued with life or not.

What does "matter" mean in this context? When you ask 'does it make a difference' or 'does it matter,' what do you mean? I suspect if you clarify this, the rest will be clear. Does the fly matter as much as the dust it leaves behind? Do trees 'matter' as much as frogs? Trees can communicate (Bernd Heinrich has a fascinating study of this) and give life and help animals to survive, and yet we burn them all the time. What does matter mean?

 

[Sergo]

Really, I do not care much about what remains after we die. If humanity will disappear without a trace - OK, so that be.
What matters to me is my love for people near me, for animals, trees, rivers, mountines, gardens, buildings... My love to live.
What matters to me is what I know about people who do not live any more.
What matters to me is works of art, music, books that I read.
What matters to me is my happines that I am here now, and can post in this thread.
And I really do not care about what will be after Earth will cease to be. I cannot change it, so why should I care about that?

Gem, thanks for your reply in the other thread by Sitaram. I will try to answer you when I have time.

 

[sirmyk]

What matters is that it mattered.