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August 2013: Jane Austen, Pride & Prejudice

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Was Darcy acting from genuine altruism or a degree of self interest?

I think he was being altruistic. After all, Elizabeth had already turned him down and made her opinion of him very clear. One could argue he was trying to prove her wrong but then again he acted in secrecy and she only learned the truth from other people whom he had sworn to secret. And yes, I'll concede it was pretty predictable that Lydia would spill the beans sooner or later but still if he was doing it for self interest he would make sure she knew about it, right?
 
well take the situation with his sister for example - was he just saving her, a laudable act, or was he also looking after the family image / reputation?
 
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Was Darcy acting from genuine altruism or a degree of self interest?

When Elizabeth finally accepts his proposal, he says:

"My object then," replied Darcy, "was to show you, by every civility in my power, that I was not so mean as to resent the past; and I hoped to obtain your forgiveness, to lessen your ill opinion, by letting you see that your reproofs had been attended to. How soon any other wishes introduced themselves I can hardly tell, but I believe in about half an hour after I had seen you."

I believe this shows that he did act from self-interest motivated by her earlier disapproval of his actions when he first proposed to her:

"Elizabeth felt herself growing more angry every moment; yet she tried to the utmost to speak with composure when she said:

"You are mistaken, Mr. Darcy, if you suppose that the mode of your declaration affected me in any other way, than as it spared me the concern which I might have felt in refusing you, had you behaved in a more gentlemanlike manner."

She saw him start at this, but he said nothing, and she continued:

"You could not have made the offer of your hand in any possible way that would have tempted me to accept it."

Again his astonishment was obvious; and he looked at her with an expression of mingled incredulity and mortification. She went on:

"From the very beginning—from the first moment, I may almost say—of my acquaintance with you, your manners, impressing me with the fullest belief of your arrogance, your conceit, and your selfish disdain of the feelings of others, were such as to form the groundwork of disapprobation on which succeeding events have built so immovable a dislike; and I had not known you a month before I felt that you were the last man in the world whom I could ever be prevailed on to marry."

"You have said quite enough, madam. I perfectly comprehend your feelings, and have now only to be ashamed of what my own have been. Forgive me for having taken up so much of your time, and accept my best wishes for your health and happiness."
 
well take the situation with his sister for example - was he just saving her, a laudable act, or was he also looking after the family image / reputation?
Both, I think. But I wonder if Wickham didn't turn out to be such a despicable man, if his intentions with Darcy's sister were honorable, would he have objected to their marriage? Cause we know his father approved and liked Wickham so maybe the same would be true for Darcy? Probably not, but I can't help but wonder...

When Elizabeth finally accepts his proposal, he says:

"My object then," replied Darcy, "was to show you, by every civility in my power, that I was not so mean as to resent the past; and I hoped to obtain your forgiveness, to lessen your ill opinion, by letting you see that your reproofs had been attended to. How soon any other wishes introduced themselves I can hardly tell, but I believe in about half an hour after I had seen you."

I believe this shows that he did act from self-interest motivated by her earlier disapproval of his actions when he first proposed to her:
Point taken. So maybe his intentions weren't altruistic but they were the result of a man who had been shown the error of his ways and set out to correct them. And if by doing so he managed to prove Elizabeth that she was wrong about him and that he had learned his lesson, great! So yeah, I guess in a way they were motivated by self-interest. I stand corrected.
 
By and large I do think, of all them, Darcy was motivated the least by purely selfish reasons, at least his heart was in the right place, even if he was by-and-large, unaware of how others perceived him, at least until Elizabeth pierced his bubble of self-delusion, and he saw the error of his pride.

Is any act truly 100% altruistic? Even if you gain nothing directly in a tangible sense from an altruistic act, you still gain the warm glow of having helped, and even that, can motivate one in a less than perfectly altruistic fashion. Even when you get no thanks, no acknowledgement, you still know you were the one who helped, which is in itself a reward. But that is a metaphysical discussion that is decidedly off-topic.

Thinking further about the book, I was thinking about Elizabeth and her own pride.

After Darcy refuses to dance with her and offends her pride, Elizabeth comments:

"That is very true," replied Elizabeth, "and I could easily forgive his pride, if he had not mortified mine."
But I wonder if Elizabeth ever had the same self-aware realisation that Darcy did, for Elizabeth also had her pride and her faults with it.
 
I think that she did (even though it is some what in the context of her being wrong about darcy), towards the end of the book she dose admit that she herself was blind and only saw in others what she chose to.

Sorry I can't find the proper quotes :)
 
I think that she did (even though it is some what in the context of her being wrong about darcy), towards the end of the book she dose admit that she herself was blind and only saw in others what she chose to.

Sorry I can't find the proper quotes :)

I'll forgive you this time :rofl
 
Perhaps you're looking for this?

How earnestly did she then wish that her former opinions had been more reasonable, her expressions more moderate!

It's towards the end of the book where Elizabeth asks for her father's consent to her marrying Darcy.
 
And why not?

It is tempting to view Mrs Bennett as shallow and focused on social standing far too much - but another way to view it is that she was concerned her daughters made as good a match as possible in an era when being poor or being a spinster was not an easy life.

It is also just as easy to dismiss Mr Bennett as a disinterested father and yet he is the parent Elizabeth is closest to and to whom she turns for advice; and given Elizabeth's role and character in the book, that is no small endorsement of his parenting.
 
True, but one gets the impression that Mr.Bennett was not as involved in his other daughters lives as he was in Elizabeths; and I think the Mrs.Bennetts fact was not in what she wanted for her daughters or really who she went about seeing that they had a good life but in her behavior itself. She was far to warped up in what she wanted and how things reflected on her, rather than just wanting her daughters to marry well.
 
I agree with you Meadow, no act is ever 100% altruistic. But I do believe Darcy's heart was in the right place when he did what he did and he was not only trying to prove to Elizabeth he wasn't the man she perceived him to be, but he was also trying to right the wrong he had done to Bingley and Jane.

As for the Bennets being good parents or not I think they weren't all that bad. Yes, Mrs. Bennet does not know the concept of subtlety and is constantly plotting and scheming but she also knew her daughters' future depended on marrying well. After all, they would not inherit after the passing of Mr. Bennet, and she wanted to ensure her daughters' future. Her behaviour after Lydia's marriage however, irritated me greatly, but I guess she was just happy her daughter was not disgraced and intent on making the best of the situation. Also, she is a shallow woman...

Mr. Bennet, on the other hand, comes across as distant but I don't think it could have been easy to get his way on a house full of women (and strong minded ones too). And this relates to Meadow's second question, whether or not Mr. and Mrs. Bennet marriage was a good one. I think so, I think it worked for them. I think Mr. Bennet had strong feelings for Mrs. Bennet and that was why he chose to look the other way on her attitudes most of the time. I also think he loves all his daughters but he doesn't really know how to connect with them, except for Elizabeth who is, perhaps, the one most like himself.
http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0003175/?ref_=tt_cl_t4
 
I'm inclined to agree that the Bennett's had reached an accommodation within their marriage - could they have been happier? Probably, but then for many reaching that kind of accommodation, even today, is enough for many people.

As for their parenting, it could not have been too bad, their family were close and caring of each other, and were accepted into society above theirs, so their manners and social graces were of an acceptable standard.
 
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