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Book Discussion - Shadow of the Torturer
- Thread starter rune
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booksblog.co.uk
New Member
Hate to admit this, but I got about 300 pages into it and gave up. Yes, I know it's supposedly the second best fantasy epic ever written, and yes, I know Wolfe is all about symbolism and hidden meaning. What I'm saying is, I think if I had more spare time I probably would have enjoyed it but I'm so busy at the moment I need a book I can dip in and out of for 20 minutes a day and still enjoy. It was certainly well written, just (imho) disjointed and dare I say it, a little boring.
Apparently it gets better in book 2, I will try again with this when I have more time on my hands. Back to my old friend John Wyndham at the moment, the undisputed greatest contemporary British SF author ever!
Apparently it gets better in book 2, I will try again with this when I have more time on my hands. Back to my old friend John Wyndham at the moment, the undisputed greatest contemporary British SF author ever!
Litany
Active Member
This book is in the Fantasy Masterworks series as part of The Book of the Long Sun, vol.1. I have since realised that most of the books in the fantasy series are largely unreadable. I read the whole thing, but I can't remember that anything worth reading about actually happened, and for a book about a torturer there was surprisingly little torture. It's long and it's tedious and it's mostly a vehicle for Wolfe to describe the dying planet and the people who live there than any story in particular.
Anyhoo, I forced myself to finish it just to see why it was a Masterwork, but I'm still none the wiser and if there's anyone reading it now that's tempted to give up then go for it. Read something fun instead.
Anyhoo, I forced myself to finish it just to see why it was a Masterwork, but I'm still none the wiser and if there's anyone reading it now that's tempted to give up then go for it. Read something fun instead.
Ben Holiday
New Member
This is actually a very good book with a nice motley cast of characters the lead of course being Severian of the Torturers Guild. The second book The Claw of the Conciliator may be the faster paced of the two but I found the first to be more engrossing then any of the others in the five part series I just enjoyed the characters too much even if it is a bit slower paced. The rest of the series really is a lot more driven then the first book and leaves a nice satisfied feeling when you finish then the final book it all wraps up fairly well and doesn't make you feel like there should have been more.
The Book of the New Sun, the first series, is absolutely unique among fantasy/sci-fi literature. It's got a stunning secondary world, intricate puzzles of identity, numerous layers of mythological and religious metaphor and a dense, sophisticated prose style designed to make you read slowly and reread often.
The Book of the Long Sun, the next series, is (somewhat tangentially) related to the world of the New Sun sequence. It is also wildly different in scope, style and atmosphere. It is an even slower series than New Sun; most of the plot is developed through dialogue between the main characters (identity isn't so much of an essential element of the story as in New Sun) and all of the events occur in a much more compressed time frame. It's therefore got a languid pace, but I found it to be beautifully written, evocative and (as it proceeds) quite moving. It's so different from the New Sun books, though, that you can't be blamed for not liking the former even if you loved the latter.
The Book of the Short Sun, the third series, is a direct sequel to the Long Sun series. However, the styling and characterization present yet a third approach for Wolfe. There are some intersections also with Severian's world from New Sun. This series was, in my opinion, better than Long Sun but with twice the intricacy. It's a three-volume literary puzzle built around a reverent exploration of human identity worthy in my estimation of some of the 20th century's great fiction-writers (Joyce, Nabokov, Borges).
I'm currently rereading The Book of the New Sun to try to unravel some of the puzzles encoded into the book as well as to relive the intoxication of the first read.
Wolfe is difficult to read--there's no denying that. That's one of the reasons I love to read his books--they're like a counterweight to some of the other fluffy fantasy I read.
I've already indicated that I love reading Gene Wolfe precisely because of the intellectualism and complexity (which I don't think are affected or gratuitous) of his writing. I like many authors (e.g., Nabokov, Joyce, Borges) who experiment with narrative devices and who occasionally indulge in author/reader textual games. Wolfe fits in that class--and as an active reader I like such challenges as he poses. The Book of the New Sun, in addition to containing plot puzzles and numerous literary allusions, is a wonderful laboratory for narrative experiments, such that as a reader I feel like I'm engaged in a game, or a dance, with the author. The Long Sun and Short Sun books contain similar treasures of style and technique.
But I acknowledge that Wolfe's brand of quirkiness isn't designed to appeal to everyone. And when it comes to post-modern art and music (as opposed to literature), I have to say that I can't stand them. Furthermore, my other favorite fantasy authors-- Dunsany, Eddison, Vance--are about as mainstream technically as they come. Their greatness arises from their individual voices, not from experimental razzle-dazzle. (Voice is also what distinguishes them from commonplace authors such as Jordan and Eddings.) So in other words, I'm the first to admit that Wolfe's style is geared towards a self-selecting audience.
(But don't let that stop you from trying him out!)
The Book of the Long Sun, the next series, is (somewhat tangentially) related to the world of the New Sun sequence. It is also wildly different in scope, style and atmosphere. It is an even slower series than New Sun; most of the plot is developed through dialogue between the main characters (identity isn't so much of an essential element of the story as in New Sun) and all of the events occur in a much more compressed time frame. It's therefore got a languid pace, but I found it to be beautifully written, evocative and (as it proceeds) quite moving. It's so different from the New Sun books, though, that you can't be blamed for not liking the former even if you loved the latter.
The Book of the Short Sun, the third series, is a direct sequel to the Long Sun series. However, the styling and characterization present yet a third approach for Wolfe. There are some intersections also with Severian's world from New Sun. This series was, in my opinion, better than Long Sun but with twice the intricacy. It's a three-volume literary puzzle built around a reverent exploration of human identity worthy in my estimation of some of the 20th century's great fiction-writers (Joyce, Nabokov, Borges).
I'm currently rereading The Book of the New Sun to try to unravel some of the puzzles encoded into the book as well as to relive the intoxication of the first read.
Wolfe is difficult to read--there's no denying that. That's one of the reasons I love to read his books--they're like a counterweight to some of the other fluffy fantasy I read.
I've already indicated that I love reading Gene Wolfe precisely because of the intellectualism and complexity (which I don't think are affected or gratuitous) of his writing. I like many authors (e.g., Nabokov, Joyce, Borges) who experiment with narrative devices and who occasionally indulge in author/reader textual games. Wolfe fits in that class--and as an active reader I like such challenges as he poses. The Book of the New Sun, in addition to containing plot puzzles and numerous literary allusions, is a wonderful laboratory for narrative experiments, such that as a reader I feel like I'm engaged in a game, or a dance, with the author. The Long Sun and Short Sun books contain similar treasures of style and technique.
But I acknowledge that Wolfe's brand of quirkiness isn't designed to appeal to everyone. And when it comes to post-modern art and music (as opposed to literature), I have to say that I can't stand them. Furthermore, my other favorite fantasy authors-- Dunsany, Eddison, Vance--are about as mainstream technically as they come. Their greatness arises from their individual voices, not from experimental razzle-dazzle. (Voice is also what distinguishes them from commonplace authors such as Jordan and Eddings.) So in other words, I'm the first to admit that Wolfe's style is geared towards a self-selecting audience.
(But don't let that stop you from trying him out!)
Yobmod
New Member
For the record, i think the Book of the New Sun was truly great.
But Shadow of the Torturer can't really be understood until you have read the whole series - some things in it just make no sense the first time through.
Definately worth the effort tho, Wofe's writing is simply brilliant.
As far as the Fantasy Masterworks series goes, most of the books in it i have found to be really excellent, and it introduced me to authors (whose fantasy) i may never have read - like Poul Anderson, Fritz Lieber, Evangeline Walton
Although some of the books seem to be included because they were important in the formation of the genre.
I never finished the Conan or Harold Shea stories. I though that they were really badly written and lacking in characterisation (even if they did invent Sword and Sorcery and Humerous fantasy respectively
)
Yobmod X
But Shadow of the Torturer can't really be understood until you have read the whole series - some things in it just make no sense the first time through.
Definately worth the effort tho, Wofe's writing is simply brilliant.
As far as the Fantasy Masterworks series goes, most of the books in it i have found to be really excellent, and it introduced me to authors (whose fantasy) i may never have read - like Poul Anderson, Fritz Lieber, Evangeline Walton
Although some of the books seem to be included because they were important in the formation of the genre.
I never finished the Conan or Harold Shea stories. I though that they were really badly written and lacking in characterisation (even if they did invent Sword and Sorcery and Humerous fantasy respectively
)Yobmod X
GreenMonkey
New Member
I read the first book, slowly, painfully. I haven't had that much trouble reading a fantasy book since LOTR. I tend to 'absorb' books - about 2-4 pages a minute (ever since H.S.). I kept 'bouncing off' his book, kind of like I used to do on LOTR and on Shakespeare (or anything old English. I think my mind is geared towards modern English...I have trouble reading anything in other styles, or that is highly symbolic (I pretty much absorb the story, but sometimes the symbolism eludes me).
I thought it was good enough to read the next book, but I've never gotten around to getting it.
I thought it was good enough to read the next book, but I've never gotten around to getting it.
fluffy bunny
Member
Been a few yrs since I read this, but I did really like the book. I don't think it can be read as a standalone though as some issues only make sense after the reading of the 4 books in the series (IMHO Book of the New Sun is better on the reread than the 1st time though as you then pick up on the points that didn't seem to make sense the 1st time through).
Stick with it- Wolfe's writing may be difficult to read the 1st time though but it's worth it.
Stick with it- Wolfe's writing may be difficult to read the 1st time though but it's worth it.
Yobmod
New Member
Someone mentioned that the Book of the Long Sun was very different to the New Sun. I would definately agree. I preferred Long Sun, the limited space of the stting made it less confusing for me, and many of the puzzles were a bit easier to work out.
So those that couldn't get into New sun i would still recommend reading Long sun (you don't have to have read the first series to enjoy the latter either).
So those that couldn't get into New sun i would still recommend reading Long sun (you don't have to have read the first series to enjoy the latter either).
Nathan
kickbox
You beautiful person! That is a perfect summary of why the Book of the New Sun is my favorite work of all time. Not only is the language masterful, but Wolfe has hidden secrets of magic and consciousness that most people will read without even knowing what's being "revealed" to them (of course, if they don't understand it, then it's not being revealed, but such is the mystery of initiation).Oponn said:
I was awed at how seemlessly he worked in the passages of Severian concentrating or meditating on something until he shifted consciousness, as well as the other innumerable passages on the nature of life and death that hide within metaphors or imagery. I have never ever ever read an author who knows so many secrets of the universe and is able to display them so beautifully, so openly, and yet so obliquely as well (all at the same time, paradoxically), and Wolfe will always be my first choice as finest writer in the English language if only for his knowledge of life's hidden realities. That the world and characters he's created are powerful and legendary doesn't hurt either...
Sell Sword
New Member
This was one of the few books that I've read about halfway and decided not to continue. I can't really recall much about it other than I didn't enjoy it at all. I'm not going get on a high horse and trash Gene Wolfe as an author or anything like that, I just didn't care for the story whatsoever.