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Bright Light. Big Questions. (split from bobby & irene)

novella said:
I guess then the question is: why do you think this is a legitimate question? What will the answer yield?
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A different way of thinking, a deeper understanding of myself, perhaps a new way of living. Maybe nothing, maybe something. It is just a need I feel at the present time.

Do you think there's a possibility that this question is nonsense? That there is no answer because the question itself doesn't make any sense?
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It's better than laying in bed with a headache.

In other words, I am asking these questions as a skeptic. I think that you are asking them as a believer, with your faith in the fact that there is no answer.
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As of 9:33 this morning, I'm a believer in nothing, except perhaps gravity 'cause last time I checked it was still working. That isn't to say I believe in Nothingness, only that where I am right now is a place that is questioning past beliefs because something went wrong along the way. Those beliefs didn't hold up. Irene Wilde didn't hold up. Something went wrong and I'm trying to understand what.

It is that implication of a privileged, inexplicable belief that gives this thread its cliquish, pedantic quality. There is a tone throughout of a private club and a private discussion that others may listen to but may understand nothing about, because they are not part of the belief system. And that belief system is based on the paradox: you see this thing? You can't because there's nothing there. Only we believers can see it, because it doesn't exist.
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If there is a cliquish quality to this thread it is perhaps because it was started by two people (do two people constitute a clique?) who are friends and have known each other a long time. Our friendship allows us to communicate in a certain...shorthand, if you will. In a way it is a private conversation. I think Mr. Burns thought it would be interesting to share our discourse in this manner, and since a couple of other people have joined in, some by participating, others simply by reading along, I like to think he was right. If we wanted to exclude other people, we would have continued this conversation on a private basis. However, it's a difficult thing to communicate with strangers via the written word in an immediate and spontaneous way. Perhaps we were wrong. I don't know.
 
Irene Wilde said:
If we wanted to exclude other people, we would have continued this conversation on a private basis. .
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I think you're doing a swell job of excluding people! No worries there. What's the fun of excluding people in private? It's much more fun this way, isn't it?

If there is a "short hand" in this communication, it must be in the assumption of a shared belief. The whole business of seeking a deeper understanding and a new way of living implies that there are assumptions about the nature of nature that are not evident in the physical universe. That's called religion.
 
novella said:
I think you're doing a swell job of excluding people! No worries there. What's the fun of excluding people in private? It's much more fun this way, isn't it?
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I don't know what I've done to you to incur this kind of hostility. Have I been rude, mean-spirited, disrepectful of you in any way?

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I'm sorry Mr. Burns. I tried. I really did. But, as you know, I have enough hostility that I have to contend with in my life. I have a choice in accepting it from strangers, and especially right now, I'm choosing not to.

I'll send you an e-mail later.

Ren
 
As a matter of fact, I think this entire thread is a hostile act. Can't you see it?

If you want to pretend that it's not, I think you should reread what you have written here. It's very exclusive and belittling to others. Again, maybe I'm missing something, but your post of this morning, re "labels", the first I responded to today, seemed to be a direct insult to anyone who would post a question or inquire into the nature of the discussion.

I quote:

"accuse you of mysticism and start demanding empirical evidence"

Is this not hostile?


And then you come across like a victim? I do realize that I'm not being very nice here, but I think someone should call you on this passive-aggressive attitude. This thread is the definition of passive-aggressive behavior.
 
Boy do I feel inadequate. I stumbled on this thread almost by accident. It really had the appearance of being a personal dialog, but then a few people chimed in here and there. What I find a bit bizarre is that I can’t even fathom thinking along these lines. My pattern of existence is so basic, I guess, that I have a great deal of trouble understanding what is really being discussed here.

If I eat something that tastes good (like a juicy ripe peach) I do not question why it tasted good, or if it was just some figment of my imagination brought on by my upbringing and culture, and that it really must have no taste at all. I just enjoy it and move on.

If I find something funny I laugh without questioning it to the point that it’s no longer funny.

If I stress over something I might dig down to try to understand why I’m stressed, but only to the point that I relieve that particular feeling.

I had to deal with some really tough situations in my life that I would hope not many others have. I learned from one of these that my own personal happiness was the single most important thing in the world. If I’m not happy then what’s the friggin’ point. So the very idea of questioning something to the level that this thread goes makes me wonder if people that think to this level are missing the beauty of life because they fail to appreciate the most basic, and simple pleasures that life can bring us.

The warm sun on your face after a long, cold rainy day. The wiggle of your dog’s entire body upon seeing you enter the room. The look of joy on your child’s face when they accomplish some tough task for the first time. Why would I want to question why the sun on my face brings a feeling of peace, contentment and happiness? I just relish the moment in all it’s plain simplicity.

I guess I’m just lost in this thread. Maybe I shouldn’t post this, but I wonder why so few have joined this thread. Unless, like me, they are so totally at a loss as to what’s going on here.
 
I would agree with you whole heartedly Moto.

Right, talking of which! The world, under this beautiful big blue fresh sky is filled with sunlight. The whole weekend stretches ahead of me.... I am going out not to enjoy it! Have a good weekend everybody....

Wabbit over and out.
 
This was just supposed to be a thread about understanding for people to express and challenge paradigms. I can't say the way I feel any better than I did in Post #35 .

Motokid, some of the ideas here lead to the ideas you've posted about. You should enjoy the moment, but not turn that moment into something that you live for, i.e., living to eat. :) The same awareness that allows you to enjoy a moment can be the same awareness that allows you to realize your allegiances to a nation, a religion, or cultural norms cause unnecessary conflict. Basically, part of understanding yourself and the conflict inside yourself can help you to understand humanity.
 
Ritalinkid, your post #35 was pretty damn pefect. I guess my roadblock was that I came into this thread late. I trudged and stumbled my way through 80 some odd posts in two sittings that were only seperated by about an hour. #35 must have gotten lost in all the other ones.

My other thought is in this trying to "understand humanity" idea. I don't know that this is any more possible than sproating wings and flying to the moon. It might be an exercise in futility. There's too many "crimes against humanity", and too much pain and suffering. Murder, rape, child molestation, torture, war, nuclear and biological threats, beheadings, pollution, humanity raping and pilliging (spelling?) the very planet that gives us life. How in the world can I lay down on the floor in the sun with my dog everyday after work and soak in some peace and happiness if I'm trying to figure out humanity?

It comes back to the idea I think I stated that it's really the most basic and simple things that bring pleasure and happiness. If you try to get too complex in your search for happiness you miss too much. You can't see the trees for the forest type idea.
 
Just because people try to understand themselves and humanity doesn't mean they are going to turn into hermits and never enjoy another moment. Why do you associate one with the other?

You interact everday with yourself and with other people. How could furthuring your understanding of the human animal be futile? Just because there's so much to know that we could never know it all? If we took that approach, we'd still be in caves.

Some of your idea seems to be based around the idea that ignorance is bliss. A major problem with ignorance is that it also breeds violence and misunderstanding. It's a double edged sword.
 
Ritalinkid, I know that people find enjoyment and happiness in many different ways, and I certainly never meant to suggest that by looking for deeper meaning, or taking thoughts to higher levels would somehow rob you, or anybody else of lifes pleasures. It's just not a level of life I'm familiar with in the terms that things were being discussed in this thread. Especially when trying to read it, understand it, and get slightly involved in it all within such a short time period.

To each his own, and may true happiness find everybody, in anyway possible.
 
Sorry if that sounded snappy, Motokid. I don't have that long for lunch, so I was forced to settle for short and sweet. You know I'm usually MotoMouth! er... MotoKeys? whatever

I feel like you're being a little dismissive of challenging your ideas. You said yourself you just weren't familiar with what was being discussed, so why not try something new? You might be robbing yourself of an oppurtunity here. You were interested enough to skim through this thread, right? The book that this thread kinda centered around was Freedom from the Known by Krishnamurti. I'm studying it now. I don't agree with him at every step, but it's not a step by step guide. It reeks of religion, but it's not. It's one man's insights. If you're interested, it might give you some new perspectives. On top of that, it's cheap and short, so you're not out much on money or time if you pick it up. ;)

Right now, I'm trying to get variety in my ideas. There are so many people on this planet, and so many ways to see each and every situation. Looking back, the years I spent studying one set of religious writings had a tremendous narrowing effect on the way I see the world. You never know what you might pick up; that's all I'm trying to say. What do you think, MK? I hope this didn't come off as pushy. If it did, my apologies. I completely understand if this doesn't interest you in the least.
 
I just really think I'm out of my element in this thread. I may look into this Krishnamurti at the library the next time I'm there.

Sometimes I wonder if, in the act of searching for something like happiness it's very possible to be missing happiness.

Like when you're a single guy searching for Miss Right. Nobody out there seems to be what you're looking for. Every woman has flaws and none of them seem to be interested in you. But when you're hooked up with somebody, beautiful women seem to be coming out of the wood work. They are making eye contact with you, and showing interest. Was that all there before and you just could not see it because you were looking for it, or did the world actually change once you got hooked up with one particular girl?
 
It may be that you're looking for what you've learned to think will bring you happiness. It may take someone or some event showing you something different for you to realize that happiness can come from other sources.
 
"happiness can come from other sources."

Ahhh...., but master, true happiness can only come from within, or is that not the path we all must seek?
 
Exactly. The change was inside you, not outside you. You're right to point out that it's not other sources although I realize you were being sarcastic. It's the change in your perspective.
 
Actually I was not being sarcastic. I was trying to add a bit of "funny" to the ongoing conversation (obviously did not work very well) which has moved from Bobby and Irene to you and me. Have you noticed we're all alone in here?

ALL________________A...L..O...N...E..... :eek:
 
"It's the change in your perspective"

Agreed, and I'll call this having an open mind, and also having a mind that's willing to question almost everything.

But again, I think I'm stuck a bit on the act of actively searching for something, and defining something in real terms, over just letting things happen and enjoying the experience.

Did I just totally contradict myself? You're making me think.

Thanks....
 
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