Coheed and Cambria - The Afterman

[Roxbrough]

Well it isn't the first time I've heard the argument about vinyl vs CD / digital. I have had a number of people lecture me on the benefits of vinyl and quite honestly I'm not on the side of a nostalgic clinging to the past. Logically I entirely fail to see how the imperfections of a vinyl recording can be better than the purity of digital especially if you also take the improvements in recording equipment into account as well, but I have never bothered to get a 'professional' opinion on it.

I have blindfolded many of my family and friends and played them a piece on vinyl and then on CD. Vinyl won every time. Before you mention crackles, it was an 180gram virgin vinyl record. There are no crackles on a good LP played on a turntable.
A turntable is not a record player. Record players damage the record with vinyl footprint.
Turntables do not.
Vinyl is and always will be the best source of music, as everyone in the music industry says, that is why all classic LP's are now being repressed and re-released.

Vinyl cannot hold a candle to a properly mastered digital source. The "warmth" claimed by the audiophiles is nothing more than self delusional anachronism.

There, that outta do it.

Have you ever owned a turntable?
Not a record player, a turntable.
This is the sort of thing that people who have only ever owned a record player think. They have not ever heard a record.
Remember dial-a-disc; when you could listen to a record over the telephone, that is like listening to a record on a record player.
Listening to a turntable feeding a choke regulated pre/power amp, biwired into monitors is a completely different experience.
Speakers are not monitors, stereo amplifiers are not mono power blocks.
Once you heard the difference you would realise what you had been missing.

Hey hey play nice. I personally think any time some one mentions all this separate tracks, vinyl, special turntable stuff there is an implied criticism of digital. Why not just listen to the thing on youtube to see if you like it? What is wrong with that? Why must I buy separate track stuff etc etc to appreciate music?

Because it is the only way you will actually hear it.
Go to a concert, does it sound like mp3?
Seperates fed by vinyl sounds like the concert in your room.
You have never actually heard music.

Roxbrough did say that the music in question wasn't on youtube and he just so happens to like hi-fi separates which you don't need in this instance because the music's on CD...

You need seperates if you want to hear the LP.
CD is like painting over the MonaLisa, artificially altering the master tape.
Coheed and Cambria record using analogue equipment as do all artists of musical integrity.

I did not understand that to say it was not on Youtube. He is saying do not listen to it on youtube, listen to all the frequencies on separates.

Especially as it is in fact on Youtube:

or if you prefer a shorter version:

Shorter version????!!!!
mp3 is not the LP the artist made.
What ever 'version' someone looks at on You Tube, is not the same exerience as listening to the album.
Free Lossless Audio Codex gets closer, but the vinyl is still best.

 

[Sneezy]

Have you ever owned a turntable?
Not a record player, a turntable.
This is the sort of thing that people who have only ever owned a record player think. They have not ever heard a record.
Remember dial-a-disc; when you could listen to a record over the telephone, that is like listening to a record on a record player.
Listening to a turntable feeding a choke regulated pre/power amp, biwired into monitors is a completely different experience.
Speakers are not monitors, stereo amplifiers are not mono power blocks.
Once you heard the difference you would realise what you had been missing.

I like wine.

 

[Conscious Bob]

You need seperates if you want to hear the LP.
CD is like painting over the MonaLisa, artificially altering the master tape.
Coheed and Cambria record using analogue equipment as do all artists of musical integrity.

You seem to have forgotten something...

Two CD release with some time between.

That's a quote from your first post a 'two CD release' why would I go to the trouble of buying hi-fi separates to play a CD?

Get your facts straight.

 

[Meadow337]

I think the entire musicphile thing with amplifiers and LP's and turntables and and and ...is a load of expensive pretentious 'yours is bigger than mine' nonsense. I think music can be enjoyed any where, any time, in any format. Pretentious artists (and they can be SO pretentious) can cater to the market if they like but I bet if you asked them if they preferred 5 people with money to buy their overpriced LP or 500 people to download a copy from iTunes .... I think they would prefer the income.

At the end of it, it is about buying a legal copy and enjoying it however you like that is more important.

 

[Conscious Bob]

I think the entire musicphile thing with amplifiers and LP's and turntables and and and ...is a load of expensive pretentious 'yours is bigger than mine' nonsense. I think music can be enjoyed any where, any time, in any format. Pretentious artists (and they can be SO pretentious) can cater to the market if they like but I bet if you asked them if they preferred 5 people with money to buy their overpriced LP or 500 people to download a copy from iTunes .... I think they would prefer the income.

At the end of it, it is about buying a legal copy and enjoying it however you like that is more important.

Yeah... the problem with that argument, technical limitations aside, is that the majority of internet file sharing is illegal.

 

[Roxbrough]

You seem to have forgotten something...
That's a quote from your first post a 'two CD release' why would I go to the trouble of buying hi-fi separates to play a CD?
Get your facts straight.

I have both the CD, which I played on a Rega Apollo top loading CD player, fed into dual mono block powers amps (choke regulated) by Musical Fidelity, bi-wired into Monitor Audio Silver Eights floor standing monitors
and the four 180 gram vinyl records
Which I played on a rega PR1 with Orfon MM5 cartridge, feeding the same back end equipment.
The vinyl easily out performs the CD.
I buy the CD first and if I like it enough, I 'upgrade' to the vinyl, but as LP's are now £30:00 I have to have heard the music and know I like it first.
So thank you for trying to help me, but you would need to see and hear the equipment, before making 'qualified' remarks!

 

[Roxbrough]

"I think the entire musicphile thing with amplifiers and LP's and turntables and and and ...is a load of expensive pretentious 'yours is bigger than mine' nonsense".

I wish I could say you are entitled to your opinion, but if you have never heard audiophile equipment then you are not really qualified to have one. I could say I think driving a Rolls Royce, is just like driving a Robin Reliant, because I have never driven either; but it would not be a sensible point of view.

 

[Roxbrough]

Just for the record (pun intended) this is what listening to a record on vinyl is like.
One can place each instrument in the room, positionally and with height.
On stringed instrument you can hear the players fingers on the strings.
When a drummer kicked the bass drum, it physically moves you in the chair, you can feel the longer sound waves coming out of your bass speakers.
On well recorded production like the Alan Parson Project you can actually hear the engineer moving the desk sliders and tell what sort of microphones were used.

No one who listens to mp3, wav, wma, ogg or aac has ever 'heard' the music.
Vinyl is better.
Just as a Rolls Royce is better than a Robin Reliant (not that I would know never having driven both, I have however heard Vinyl, mp3 an CD and have hearing).

 

[Meadow337]

"I think the entire musicphile thing with amplifiers and LP's and turntables and and and ...is a load of expensive pretentious 'yours is bigger than mine' nonsense".

I wish I could say you are entitled to your opinion, but if you have never heard audiophile equipment then you are not really qualified to have one. I could say I think driving a Rolls Royce, is just like driving a Robin Reliant, because I have never driven either; but it would not be a sensible point of view.

Just because I was unaware of what one particular over-priced bit of kit was does not mean I am ignorant of everything to do with audio equipment. This breaks down into those who insist vinyl is better, and those real technical buffs who say that in every test that counts (in which human ears are the most unreliable) digital is at least as good as, or better.

Given that aforemention audiophiles are always banging on about what they have and how much better it is than what any one else has, forgive me thinking its more about 'how big mine is' rather than the actual sound.

 

[Meadow337]

Just for the record (pun intended) this is what listening to a record on vinyl is like.
One can place each instrument in the room, positionally and with height.
On stringed instrument you can hear the players fingers on the strings.
When a drummer kicked the bass drum, it physically moves you in the chair, you can feel the longer sound waves coming out of your bass speakers.
On well recorded production like the Alan Parson Project you can actually hear the engineer moving the desk sliders and tell what sort of microphones were used.

No one who listens to mp3, wav, wma, ogg or aac has ever 'heard' the music.
Vinyl is better.
Just as a Rolls Royce is better than a Robin Reliant (not that I would know never having driven both, I have however heard Vinyl, mp3 an CD and have hearing).

WHY in the name of all that is holy would I want to hear the engineer? That surely is an appalling quality recording in which distracting extraneous sound has not been carefully excluded with suitable sound proofing? As for the Bass moving my chair - no thanks I like my hearing left intact.

 

[Roxbrough]

WHY in the name of all that is holy would I want to hear the engineer?

You don't on mp3, which I think you will be happy with. I have a different appreciation of music, that requires the superb medium of vinyl.

 

[Roxbrough]

"Just because I was unaware of what one particular over-priced bit of kit was does"

An item is worth what one is prepared to pay for it and the resultant pleasure it gives.
In this respect I have had my money's worth out of my records many times over

 

[Conscious Bob]

I have both the CD, which I played on a Rega Apollo top loading CD player, fed into dual mono block powers amps (choke regulated) by Musical Fidelity, bi-wired into Monitor Audio Silver Eights floor standing monitors
and the four 180 gram vinyl records
Which I played on a rega PR1 with Orfon MM5 cartridge, feeding the same back end equipment.
The vinyl easily out performs the CD.
I buy the CD first and if I like it enough, I 'upgrade' to the vinyl, but as LP's are now £30:00 I have to have heard the music and know I like it first.
So thank you for trying to help me, but you would need to see and hear the equipment, before making 'qualified' remarks!

I'm not making a CD vs vinyl argument... You started off this thread with a CD recommendation, why would anyone pay for an expensive hi-fi separate for CD?

 

[Roxbrough]

Because those idiots at Sony/EMI/Charisma do not release every record on vinyl anymore.
You end up playing with what you can get.
Ask anyone with a big video tape selection why they switched to DVD.
The world is run by huge corporations Bob, they force crap on us.
Take the new 3D Plasma's, watch them and get an instant astigmatism, just because the next thing comes out, it does not automatically follow that it is better.

When I bought a CD player because I could not get certain music on LP. the salesman said and I quote,
"What do you want CD's for theyr'e old hat, everyone is streaming now".
My response was to show him where the back door was.

 

[Conscious Bob]

Because those idiots at Sony/EMI/Charisma do not release every record on vinyl anymore.
You end up playing with what you can get.
Ask anyone with a big video tape selection why they switched to DVD.
The world is run by huge corporations Bob, they force crap on us.
Take the new 3D Plasma's, watch them and get an instant astigmatism, just because the next thing comes out, it does not automatically follow that it is better.

When I bought a CD player because I could not get certain music on LP. the salesman said and I quote,
"What do you want CD's for theyr'e old hat, everyone is streaming now".
My response was to show him where the back door was.

Well... you did start this thread with a CD recommendation and I've just kept my contributions CD specific.

Horses for courses, if we were talking vinyl then yeah I'd go for the very best turntable I could afford because different analog turntables make a difference to the quality of analog sound. You don't get that with CD players as the actual devices themselves are digital and as a consequence very much generic. A bog standard computer with a CD slot will out-specify any dedicated separate CD player because it can be customised with software and the quality of sound is only dictated by the choice of speakers.

 

[Roxbrough]

Well Bob back up that ridiculous statement with some reference?

Design technology
The Apollo-R is the result of many years of innovation, advanced software development and elegant engineering solutions researched by our highly skilled team of engineers and designers. It took the completion of two of our multi award winning products, the flagship Isis CD player and the Rega DAC to pave the way for a unique product we feel encapsulates everything the new Apollo-R should be.

Design history
The original Apollo CD player launched in 2005. It was a huge success selling approaching 20,000 units worldwide. The Apollo was a unique player featuring Rega’s own software and control system ensuring no other manufacturers player could sound the same. This key element is carried forward and improved into Apollo-R.

Analogue & digital outputs
Development of the analogue, digital and control domains ensured direct improvements of both analogue and digital outputs making the Apollo-R a perfect partner for the Rega Brio-R amplifier and an ideal ‘CD format’ front-end for the Rega DAC. The Apollo-R internal circuitry has also been improved by tightening the PCB layout.

My CD player sounds better than any mp3 playing computer, nothing at all to do with speakers.
Now show me where it says mp3 sounds better than a proper CD player.
How can it be logical to assume that all CD players sound the same, when turntables all sound different???!

 

[Roxbrough]

I did not start the thread with a CD recommendation.
I started it with a music recommendation.

 

[Conscious Bob]

Well Bob back up that ridiculous statement with some reference?

Design technology
The Apollo-R is the result of many years of innovation, advanced software development and elegant engineering solutions researched by our highly skilled team of engineers and designers. It took the completion of two of our multi award winning products, the flagship Isis CD player and the Rega DAC to pave the way for a unique product we feel encapsulates everything the new Apollo-R should be.

Design history
The original Apollo CD player launched in 2005. It was a huge success selling approaching 20,000 units worldwide. The Apollo was a unique player featuring Rega’s own software and control system ensuring no other manufacturers player could sound the same. This key element is carried forward and improved into Apollo-R.

Analogue & digital outputs
Development of the analogue, digital and control domains ensured direct improvements of both analogue and digital outputs making the Apollo-R a perfect partner for the Rega Brio-R amplifier and an ideal ‘CD format’ front-end for the Rega DAC. The Apollo-R internal circuitry has also been improved by tightening the PCB layout.

My CD player sounds better than any mp3 playing computer, nothing at all to do with speakers.
Now show me where it says mp3 sounds better than a proper CD player.
How can it be logical to assume that all CD players sound the same, when turntables all sound different???!

The CD mechanism in every CD player is the same, a laser... digital output is always subject to software.

CDs are far superior to mp3s but PCs that can play CDs (I never mentioned mp3s) are the best CD players because they're the most customisable and you can plug in the same quality speakers.

Anything wrong with that?

I did not start the thread with a CD recommendation.
I started it with a music recommendation.

On CD...

 

[Răspunsul]

 

[MrHill]

I found the first disc far more enjoyable than the second, almost as though his best writing was done early on.
I think he should have stuck to a single album.
The first was a master class in Progressive composition.