Not to mention she has always intended that the Harry series be his seven years of school and no further. Maybe she has another series in mind once the Harry's are finished. I know there are millions of people who would love to keep reading about Harry after he graduates but trying to continue the story may jeopardize the previous books. When it comes down to it, J.K. Rowling will know when it's time to stop and we can all hope that she has another brilliant story to tell!
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Discussion: Rowling, J.K.: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
- Thread starter Darren
- Start date
murphyz
New Member
I wouldn't personally class Harry Potter as a brilliant story.
Yes, I enjoyed the books, but only for what they were - not because they are an astounding piece of literature, because they really aren't.
I'm not trying to diss it, because I have all the books and defend them regularly. But I don't understand those people who state them as 'the best book ever'. There are much better childrens books out there.
Mxx
Yes, I enjoyed the books, but only for what they were - not because they are an astounding piece of literature, because they really aren't.
I'm not trying to diss it, because I have all the books and defend them regularly. But I don't understand those people who state them as 'the best book ever'. There are much better childrens books out there.
Mxx
murphyz
New Member
See, I love Dickens and feel the stories he tells are very good, even if they are a bit samey and include the poor, an orphan, someone finding a relative, and someone dying. But then HP is also the same each time. It's hard not to be the same in structure when it always revolves around the school year.
The thing I find with Dickens is that his writing is discriptive and his characters are well built so you have emotion for them.
HP, however, is just plodding along with the story and you can do so without concentrating. I only found that the only real character decelopment came in the latest one with Snape and Neville. I'm actually feeling quite oobjectional about HP lately, even though I like it and have done so for the last 4 years. I think it's because the latest one was a bit of a let down for me.
Mxx
The thing I find with Dickens is that his writing is discriptive and his characters are well built so you have emotion for them.
HP, however, is just plodding along with the story and you can do so without concentrating. I only found that the only real character decelopment came in the latest one with Snape and Neville. I'm actually feeling quite oobjectional about HP lately, even though I like it and have done so for the last 4 years. I think it's because the latest one was a bit of a let down for me.
Mxx
Well, the reason there are so many books and so many authors out there is because there's something for everyone and not everyone will like everything. However, you can't argue the fact that these are the best selling "children's" books of all time. As for being a brilliant story or a brilliant series of books is my opinion as this is what this forum is all about. Maybe these books aren't for everyone but they sure are for most! I don't believe she ever intended to compare herself to Dickens. She just wanted to write a story that children would enjoy. And she succeeded, period. If you want a literary genius you're reading the wrong books......if you want to lose yourself in the wonderul world of witchcraft and wizardry then sit back and enjoy!
murphyz
New Member
That's the problem I find with criticising the book, is because some people who absolutely love it don't look objectively at it.
I, personally, love the books. I have all five of them, and the Goblet of Fire I purchased in a very nice hardback edition with gold leaf pages and it is the second most expensive book I have ever bought. I bought this edition because I love the set so much. The problem I do have is seeing how it became so popular and why it is the best selling childrens book of all time?
Can you tell me why you find it so brilliant? And can you tell me this in detail, rather than a few sentences?
How do I convince someone I love the book, yet can look objectively at it?
I find there is nothing original in the book. By this I don't mean made up words or means of transport and such, but the actual content - it's all been done before. You've got good vs evil, friendship, lessons in life etc etc - but it's all been done before. This to me shows Rowling as either a well read woman, or unoriginal.
The characters are very under-developed, except hints of it in the newest book with Neville and Snape and a touch with Aunt Pertunia. The storyline just wanders around conveniently. The structure is 1+1=2 and doesn't deviate. The descriptive writing doesn't stick in your memory, and at all times there is a feeling of detachment from the characters and the world. The only good thing that I see Rowling doing is highlighting the fact that there are children who are bullied and abused in this world, and it's often by their family. That's the only shining point of the novel.
Yes, you can read it for what it is, as a work of fiction, as a piece of childrens literature, as a way to escape to a word of magic. But then what's the attraction when it's been done in other books? What catches and holds your attention with this book?
Why is this series rising to stardom so quickly when other books such as Pullman's Dark Materials and Lewis's Narnia are not in the forefront even though they have everything Potter does and more. They have well developed characters and a world that you believe in.
Like I say, I read Potter, I love the Potter series - but I can see how it is rubbish and read it like other people watch Eastenders. Brain candy.
All I want to know is why you like it so much? Why do you think it has sold so many copies?
And can you look at the book objectively and recognise it has faults, regardless of how great we think it is?
Also, if a child wanted something to read, why would you suggest Potter, if you had to choose between that, the Narnia Chronicles, Phillip Pullman and Artemis Fowl? What, for you, makes it better?
I'm a member of several book forums and I see Potter fans everywhere giving bad reviews to the members who are, like me, objective about it, but whenever I ask the above questions I get two sentence answers saying Potter is the best because you escape to a mystical word of magic and stuff - it's escapism.
All I want is for you to convince me as to why it is so good in your eyes, but to do this I think the reader would need to actually look into the content of the book more than they seem to be doing and understand that it has flaws, it isn't really as good as everyone is saying because of this, this and this, but I still love it because....!
Honestly, as I've stated several times, I am a Potter fan. I rushed out and bought the book on day of release, I have the DVD, poster and even have a mug (with the Hogwarts Express on it - thank you kindly) and I do urge others to read it if they haven't.
I accept it for what it is, childish escapism, and in no way brilliant or original.
Can you convince me otherwise?
Mxx
I, personally, love the books. I have all five of them, and the Goblet of Fire I purchased in a very nice hardback edition with gold leaf pages and it is the second most expensive book I have ever bought. I bought this edition because I love the set so much. The problem I do have is seeing how it became so popular and why it is the best selling childrens book of all time?
Can you tell me why you find it so brilliant? And can you tell me this in detail, rather than a few sentences?
How do I convince someone I love the book, yet can look objectively at it?
I find there is nothing original in the book. By this I don't mean made up words or means of transport and such, but the actual content - it's all been done before. You've got good vs evil, friendship, lessons in life etc etc - but it's all been done before. This to me shows Rowling as either a well read woman, or unoriginal.
The characters are very under-developed, except hints of it in the newest book with Neville and Snape and a touch with Aunt Pertunia. The storyline just wanders around conveniently. The structure is 1+1=2 and doesn't deviate. The descriptive writing doesn't stick in your memory, and at all times there is a feeling of detachment from the characters and the world. The only good thing that I see Rowling doing is highlighting the fact that there are children who are bullied and abused in this world, and it's often by their family. That's the only shining point of the novel.
Yes, you can read it for what it is, as a work of fiction, as a piece of childrens literature, as a way to escape to a word of magic. But then what's the attraction when it's been done in other books? What catches and holds your attention with this book?
Why is this series rising to stardom so quickly when other books such as Pullman's Dark Materials and Lewis's Narnia are not in the forefront even though they have everything Potter does and more. They have well developed characters and a world that you believe in.
Like I say, I read Potter, I love the Potter series - but I can see how it is rubbish and read it like other people watch Eastenders. Brain candy.
All I want to know is why you like it so much? Why do you think it has sold so many copies?
And can you look at the book objectively and recognise it has faults, regardless of how great we think it is?
Also, if a child wanted something to read, why would you suggest Potter, if you had to choose between that, the Narnia Chronicles, Phillip Pullman and Artemis Fowl? What, for you, makes it better?
I'm a member of several book forums and I see Potter fans everywhere giving bad reviews to the members who are, like me, objective about it, but whenever I ask the above questions I get two sentence answers saying Potter is the best because you escape to a mystical word of magic and stuff - it's escapism.
All I want is for you to convince me as to why it is so good in your eyes, but to do this I think the reader would need to actually look into the content of the book more than they seem to be doing and understand that it has flaws, it isn't really as good as everyone is saying because of this, this and this, but I still love it because....!
Honestly, as I've stated several times, I am a Potter fan. I rushed out and bought the book on day of release, I have the DVD, poster and even have a mug (with the Hogwarts Express on it - thank you kindly) and I do urge others to read it if they haven't.
I accept it for what it is, childish escapism, and in no way brilliant or original.
Can you convince me otherwise?
Mxx
Please feel free to criticise the book just don't criticise other people's opinions of it. It's all about discussion and sharing ideas and opinions. By all means, you do not have to love the book near as much as I.
Can I convince you, you ask? Or, should I say, will I convince you? Quite simply... No. That is J.K. Rowling's job. If she hasn't convinced you that her books are oringinal or brilliant than nothing I say can change your thoughts. We obviously think very differently about why we like a certain book. I personally do not think you need to find fault or flaws with a book to truly appreciate it as you stated above. I am drawn into a book for what it is rather than what it isn't. I don't read to look for flaws or faults.
As for originality, just because a book has been written in the same genre as others shouldn't make it not an original! Her books fall into the fantasy-fiction genre, many others have written in the same genre so why would that make hers any less original than anyone else's? There just isn't any comparison. They are all unique. And in my opinion, the Harry books have more originality than many other books (children, adult, etc.) I've read.
You call it "rubbish" and I call it brilliant. There is very little in this world that I would consider "rubbish" especially a book. You claim others have everything Potter has and more, but that is to you, in your mind and in your opinion. Maybe others don't feel the same as you about these other authors. That is what makes us all individual. I will not defend my feelings on this series; it is not why I joined this forum, to be defensive.
I will however mention your take on escapism which I find interesting. You mentioned several times the escapism factor of these books. Doesn't fantasy-fiction equal escapism regardless of the author? What is fantasy without escape from reality???? Again, in my opinion, J.K. Rowling has a gift of keeping the emotions, fears and triumphs of her characters on a human scale even when the readers have escaped (so to speak) into her magical world.
Do I find these books thought provoking...no, but I don't consider that necessary for fantasy-fiction or for the sheer enjoyment of a book. I do however find these books moving, emotional, funny, inspiring, morally conscientious, mysterious, imaginative, descriptive, addictive and very well written. But I will not delve any further to convince you of anything different than your own opinions.
To each his own....
Can I convince you, you ask? Or, should I say, will I convince you? Quite simply... No. That is J.K. Rowling's job. If she hasn't convinced you that her books are oringinal or brilliant than nothing I say can change your thoughts. We obviously think very differently about why we like a certain book. I personally do not think you need to find fault or flaws with a book to truly appreciate it as you stated above. I am drawn into a book for what it is rather than what it isn't. I don't read to look for flaws or faults.
As for originality, just because a book has been written in the same genre as others shouldn't make it not an original! Her books fall into the fantasy-fiction genre, many others have written in the same genre so why would that make hers any less original than anyone else's? There just isn't any comparison. They are all unique. And in my opinion, the Harry books have more originality than many other books (children, adult, etc.) I've read.
You call it "rubbish" and I call it brilliant. There is very little in this world that I would consider "rubbish" especially a book. You claim others have everything Potter has and more, but that is to you, in your mind and in your opinion. Maybe others don't feel the same as you about these other authors. That is what makes us all individual. I will not defend my feelings on this series; it is not why I joined this forum, to be defensive.
I will however mention your take on escapism which I find interesting. You mentioned several times the escapism factor of these books. Doesn't fantasy-fiction equal escapism regardless of the author? What is fantasy without escape from reality???? Again, in my opinion, J.K. Rowling has a gift of keeping the emotions, fears and triumphs of her characters on a human scale even when the readers have escaped (so to speak) into her magical world.
Do I find these books thought provoking...no, but I don't consider that necessary for fantasy-fiction or for the sheer enjoyment of a book. I do however find these books moving, emotional, funny, inspiring, morally conscientious, mysterious, imaginative, descriptive, addictive and very well written. But I will not delve any further to convince you of anything different than your own opinions.
To each his own....
murphyz
New Member
Well said
Thank you for those comments. I agree we all have our own opinions and whereas we will agree with some books we will obviously disagree with others. I don't intend to ask people to defend their opinions, I ask that they give their opinions in depth to try and make me understand them and their views. I want people to be passionate about books, but I also want to know why that is so. I want people to tell me what it is about Potter, and other books, that is special to them, regardless of whether I agree. I went to a conference the other night where Al Kennedy, Scottish Author, suggested people who like potter should also read the phone book, as it is about the same length and interest. I, or course, disagree with her, but like to know her views and why she feels that way. The same goes for why someone likes it as much as you do.
I see forums in a judicial sense, where there is an item on trial (potter) and people who are giving cases against it. It frustrates me when people join forums not to discuss, but to give three word answers stating 'I love it' or 'I hate it'. I want to know all of the details as to why, and I thank you for taking the time to express that in this case.
Mxx
Thank you for those comments. I agree we all have our own opinions and whereas we will agree with some books we will obviously disagree with others. I don't intend to ask people to defend their opinions, I ask that they give their opinions in depth to try and make me understand them and their views. I want people to be passionate about books, but I also want to know why that is so. I want people to tell me what it is about Potter, and other books, that is special to them, regardless of whether I agree. I went to a conference the other night where Al Kennedy, Scottish Author, suggested people who like potter should also read the phone book, as it is about the same length and interest. I, or course, disagree with her, but like to know her views and why she feels that way. The same goes for why someone likes it as much as you do.
I see forums in a judicial sense, where there is an item on trial (potter) and people who are giving cases against it. It frustrates me when people join forums not to discuss, but to give three word answers stating 'I love it' or 'I hate it'. I want to know all of the details as to why, and I thank you for taking the time to express that in this case.
Mxx
I, like you, joined the forum to read the stories, ideas, opinions and the like from other readers regarding the Harry books. And I, like you, don't get much out of the three word answers a lot of people give. I know there has to be more inside those people (depending on age of course!), I think they just can't put it into words. Especially when it's an "I love it" response. There is something inside these people that just lights up when they are reading but they can't always explain it or make it sound legitimate. They say, "there's just something about it..." and it's that something they just can't describe. Do you agree? I do also think that forums such as this can help these people reach down and find out what inspires them so. Especially people like you who make others have to think!
I found what the Scottish author you wrote about said almost disturbing. How could another author with the same passion in life (to write) degrade a fellow author that way? That is unsettling to me. Anyone brave enough to put what is in their mind and soul onto paper for the world to see at least deserves the courtesy of the effort put forth. I almost feel sad for her in a way, not being able to get even the slightest bit of joy out of it.
Out of curiousity, what are you reading now? Hate to say it, but I am reading LOTR (trendy I know, but after the first two movies I had to read it) and am very much enjoying it and also wishing I had read the book before I saw the movies. And of course, like most Potter fans, I am anxiously awaiting the sixth in the series....what can I say, I'm hooked!
I do hope we can continue these writings as I have quite enjoyed myself. It is always interesting to learn about others as in turn you usually learn a little about yourself in the process. I do wonder where that passion for a certain book evolves? Some catch you with the first line! Truly amazing...
Til then....Peace
I found what the Scottish author you wrote about said almost disturbing. How could another author with the same passion in life (to write) degrade a fellow author that way? That is unsettling to me. Anyone brave enough to put what is in their mind and soul onto paper for the world to see at least deserves the courtesy of the effort put forth. I almost feel sad for her in a way, not being able to get even the slightest bit of joy out of it.
Out of curiousity, what are you reading now? Hate to say it, but I am reading LOTR (trendy I know, but after the first two movies I had to read it) and am very much enjoying it and also wishing I had read the book before I saw the movies. And of course, like most Potter fans, I am anxiously awaiting the sixth in the series....what can I say, I'm hooked!
I do hope we can continue these writings as I have quite enjoyed myself. It is always interesting to learn about others as in turn you usually learn a little about yourself in the process. I do wonder where that passion for a certain book evolves? Some catch you with the first line! Truly amazing...
Til then....Peace
murphyz
New Member
Yip, totally agree with that, have thought it myself every now and then.
I am actually reading quite a few books just now, as I usually have several on the go at once. These are as follows:
River God - Wilbur Smith (my main read just now, which I only rad on the tube)
Pride and Prejudice - Austen
Robinson Crusoe - Dafoe
Goodnight Mr Tom - Magorian (re-read)
Perfume - Suskind
The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe - Lewis (re-read)
My Lover's Lover - O'Farrell
Gulliver's Travels - Swift
A Brief History of Time - Hawking
I find the Lord of the Rings books better than the film, although am not a huge fan. There's a few things I'm glad the film missed out, such as Bombadier (sp?), but it didn't quite do it for me. The book I find very good in creating the world, especially the eeriness of when he puts the ring on. Nicely done.
Mxx
I, too, am finding the LOTR book better than the movies even though I'm not too far into yet. There is just so much more information and story line within the book. Several times I heard fans of the books say that the movies were a very close adaptation and they weren't disappointed and I can see how that is very true especially with an undertaking as large as that was. But still, no movie could capture this book in it's entirety.
And speaking of books, I have no idea how you can read so many at once. Your mind must be able to work in many directions at the same time and your concentration just unfailing. How great is that?!
Must be off...Ciao for now....
And speaking of books, I have no idea how you can read so many at once. Your mind must be able to work in many directions at the same time and your concentration just unfailing. How great is that?!
Must be off...Ciao for now....
murphyz
New Member
You would think so but just yesterday I was reading Goodnight Mr Tom whilst sat at the PC and I went to the kitchen to make coffee. Whilst waiting for the kettle to boil I picked up the book in there, River God, and continued reading it not even thinking it was a different book. Halfway down the page I stopped and thought 'who are you...and what happened to William?'.
I've seen a few people on the tube look at me strangely too when I close a book I am reading and pull a different one out of my bag and start reading that instead.
I think it depends on what mood I am in as to which one holds my interest.
Mxx
I've seen a few people on the tube look at me strangely too when I close a book I am reading and pull a different one out of my bag and start reading that instead.
I think it depends on what mood I am in as to which one holds my interest.
Mxx
IlUvSiRiUsBlAcK
New Member
I loved the 5th book! i read it in one day, i got it at 12 that night and didn't finish it until 8:30 on the 21st. It was great, i wish we saw a little more Dumbledore in it but it was still good! i was DEVASTED when my favorite character died, i cried so much! and with the mirror! that was so sad! And now we know that either Harry has to Kill Voldemort or the other way around. Rowling has commented on this when people ask her to go on with Harry's life, she always, say's "you're assuming Harry isn't going to die!" and so i'm wondering about the end of the 7th. Tell me what you think!!
**dreamer**
New Member
as long as JKR doesnt kil harry of in tha last book ( plz nooo!) i reckon she will leave it for a long time then maybe write a few spin offs, but id love to read about harrys life as possibly an auror