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The Butcher in me

laboi_22

New Member
Old Work--New Re-write~

It’s in the nature of humans to choose what they want to see and make observations about others according to their own insight. Sometimes however, things or people rather, aren’t always what they seem. For D.J. Crane, a second year seminary student at St. Mary’s College, this was his personal premise.

The ringing of his alarm clock continued for one full minute before he rolled over and threw the old wind up against the wall across the dorm room. Waking up each morning was the simple act he dreaded most. He used his fists to clear the night of sleep from his puffy pink cotton candy colored eyes. When he sat up, as he did each morning in the twin bed, the image in the vanity mirror looked directly at him. His normally tanned but now pale face startled him somewhat. Using his hands he attempted to tame his mop of long thick and now messy brunette hair. Haircuts and grooming took last place on the seminary’s list of to do’s. He took slow deep breaths to calm his early morning anxiety reminding himself that he did this every morning and even though he hated daytime it was going to be like every other. When he stood on the scale he realized that he again lost another five pounds this week. The food he ate in the cafeteria three times a day made him sick, literally. He could hardly stand to take two bites of the “slop”, and the lack of nutrition was beginning to take its toll on his once strong but still young frame.

He walked across the ice box sized room with its drab curtains and one window, rusty sink, and small vanity desk, and opened up the closet door. He sighed as he looked over his wardrobe. Before the seminary, he had many fashionable outfits and an impressive collection of pricey shoes. Now only three t-shirts hung on hangers along with five charcoal colored monk robes. At the bottom of the closet was one pair of slip on gray shoes that were surely purchased at a thrift store.

As he began his normal five minute routine of dressing and attempting to fix his too long and thick hair, the whites of his immense brown eyes cleared up, and glimpsed the photo that hung on the wall hidden by the curtains that whipped with the wind from the open window. When he grabbed the dusty frame from off of the wall, he fell back into a seated position onto his hard bed. He loved his family and missed them so.
After five minutes of holding the picture close to his chest, he wiped his face with a towel to rid the stickiness of warm salty tears. “Tighten up D.J. you won’t be here much longer”, he told himself just before he walked out of his dorm room.

D.J. was stopped halfway down the hall by Jonathan. Jonathan was in his first semester of his first year at the seminary. Most of the students at St. Mary’s found it difficult to believe that he aspired to be a priest. His gripping good looks, tight muscular body, and flawless face read like he was a girl’s type of guy.

“Hey D.J.”, Jonathan yelled in D.J.’s direction while closing and locking his dorm room door.

“Hey Jonathan. How was your night?” D.J. smiled as he waited for a response.

“Well I got through it, that’s about all I could say.” Jonathan’s expressionless face eventually changed as he smiled back.

“Good. Glad to hear it.” D.J. responded. Several students stared as they walked by. In the other student’s opinions Jonathan was not the ideal candidate for the priesthood, and though most students generally liked D.J., there were rumors surrounding D.J. and Jonathan’s relationship. D.J. tried not to involve himself with rumors, and even thought he wouldn’t admit it to anyone, he tried to keep his relationship with Jonathan as “hush, hush” as he possibly could.

“Sorry Jonathan, but I’ll be late for class if I don’t start walking over now.” He shot Jonathan yet another one of his warm and friendly smiles that everyone had come to love and walked away.
After turning his back to Jonathan and observing that no one was around, he let his lip quiver a bit fighting the urge to cry. Jonathan was his only true friend at St. Mary’s, but he couldn’t let anyone else know about their special bond. Being at St. Mary’s and getting through only two more years was the only thing that stopped him to be open with the rest of the students about their relationship.

After exiting the dorm building D.J. slowed his pace a bit to enjoy the lush green gardens, and the beautiful spring morning. Sometimes his morning strolls through the gardens was the single action that made him a little more stronger, and perhaps was what allowed him to make it this far in school without having a full on breakdown.
Groups of young seminary students stood together waving and smiling as D.J. passed by. One group of guys that he knew quite well from his debate class handed D.J. a flyer while greeting him. D.J. read the invitation to the late night reading party at the small café in the union. He crumpled up the paper and tossed it in the garbage can by a bench, and sat for a moment to savor the gardens and his energy bar.

The day progressed as usual. He listened closely and took notes, as the professors spoke in their British accents. Accents that he had admired all of his childhood, and wished he could possess. According to his mother and father, he was beginning to sound like a Brit. He didn’t believe it much since he couldn’t hear it in his own voice when he spoke. Turns out they were right though. His voice was deep, and the accent was spreading on thick. It’s safe to assume that four years of talking and listening to the other’s accents, you would at least start to pick some of it up.
Something was different today though. The Vice-Rector was acting strange during his Latin lecture, as if he were afraid to look D.J. in the eyes like he usually did everyday; nodding at him for agreement and acceptance. D.J. was always keen to picking up these subtle clues that others didn’t. Any deviation from the norm D.J. was sure to notice.

After class, the Vice-Rector Reverend Thomas Mary, asked him to stay for a while to “have a word with him.”

“D.J. we need to talk.” He spoke with the same monotone voice D.J.’s father had used for so many years. As the Reverend spoke, D.J. felt the lump in his throat rise. He felt the burning sensation build within his eyes. No matter how much he wanted to, he didn’t allow himself to cry.

The “talk” didn’t take very long. The Reverend said what he had to say, and made his point in a hurry. Now D.J. found himself inside his jail cell, only now that’s truly what it was, a jail cell indeed. He dusted off the paper from the top of the stack that sat on his small desk in the corner of his room. It had been there for years untouched, but today he would use it. With his fingers weak from grief, barley able to hold the heavy metal pen upright, he wrote.

Dear Mother,

I’m afraid I’ve some terrible news. Upon conclusion of my level two year, I was summoned to the Vice-Rector’s office. Rev. Thomas Mary informed me that I was no longer able to continue my studies at this seminary. Unfortunately, there have been some reports of my rather embarrassing and incriminating behavior here on campus. When the rector and the dean of studies got wind of these so called “immoral acts” I was immediately abolished from the program.

It pains me so to tell you of these acts in which I engaged myself. I understand now why you had me placed here all alone in this foreign country. I know of your embarrassment of me. I know now, but at the time I didn’t. Mother, I love you just as much as I love the Lord in which I was willing to serve for the rest of my days, but something evil has overtaken my soul. Something mother, that I can not control. Something that you have know and seen in me for a long time.

I did it. I engaged myself in a sexual relationship with a young level one seminarian. Mother I am a homosexual. I’m sorry for the pain this must cause you and father. I’m sorry for the embarrassment inflicted upon our family, but I can’t hide forever behind the persona of the priesthood. In a very awkward way, I am glad that I’ve been caught, and that now you know about my secrets. I love this young seminarian whose name is Jonathan. I’ve loved him for a long time now. Please try to deal with this in the utmost respect for me and my life, just as I have done for you and Father and your choices in life.

I will not return to the states. You will never again have to worry about me being an embracement among our family. I will disappear into the dark night outside of these holy walls, as I am being forced out. Don’t ever forget my love for you and Father and my brother and sister. Tell them everyday how much I care, and please take care of yourself. For my life there in the states is over, as is my life here at St. Mary’s. I am about to embark upon a new chapter of my life, one which you will not respect, but nonetheless one that I have chosen to lead. May the mercy of the sacred heart of Jesus be with you, and the love of the virgin guide you, for you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Respectfully Yours,

Your Son D.J

****************
The ending paragraph follows the last post.....please read on thanks..........
 
Someone's been editing... Good job, laboi. This story is really coming along (in comparison to the first time I read it a few weeks ago). It does have good plot and will make an excellent story when you finally feel it is complete. Sometimes short stories of mine go through ten or twenty revisions before I'm happy with them and they make me smile. My first novel survived four years of blood-red-ink butchering before I could look at it and say, "yeah... it's done".

You asked for some criticism, so here you go. You need to work on a few things, such as the opening paragraph. Over everything else, the first paragraph, of any piece of writing, needs to be the tightest, most gripping, most addictive part or your work.

laboi_22 said:
What’s one to do when the simple act of waking each day burdens the soul? So much so, that putting on that fake smile in the morning, literally causes the muscles around your mouth to ache and spasm. When all you really want to do is climb back in bed and just remain dead to a world that you hate so much.
You switch back and forth between using "one" and "you/your"; you should pick one or the other and stick to it. Also, I think making this first paragraph a single sentence (a question, really) will make it flow easier for the reader, and keep him/her intrigued. Something like this:

What do you do when the simple act of waking each morning burdens the soul, so much that the simple task of applying a fake smile causes the muscles around the mouth to ache and spasm, when all you really want is to stay in bed and play dead to the world you hate?

Much more powerful! Not perfect, but nothing is perfect.

These thoughts flooded his brain daily. As a student of the seminary in his level two year, D.J. Crane spent most of his time on campus in solitude. Never once did he allow anyone to get close enough to realize what ran through his mind. Everyone envied his so called positive outlook on life. But living a life, trying to be something your not, can damage what little self-esteem you may have left.
"Flooded his brain" reads like he's having a brain hemorrhage. Maybe choose an alternate phrase, like the one I chose below. You also need to introduce your character, by name, as soon as you can. People don't like to read stories about he, she, or it; they like to read stories about Tommy, William, or Jennifer. I only have subtle changes to this paragraph. Here's a possibility:

Every day questions like these clouded the mind of D.J. Crane [to introduce the reader to his name quicker]. As a second year student of St. Mary's College [you should tell the reader where he's at, besides the heading], he spent most of his time on campus in solitude; never once did he share his thoughts [or pick a better word to describe his problem] among fellow classmates. Others [I'm sure it wasn't "everyone"] envied his so called "positive outlook" on life, but living such a life, and wearing a mask to cover what you are hiding underneath [or some other clever phrase], can damage what little self-esteem there is left.

...

I'll now skip to the end, although you may want to edit some of the stuff I didn't cover.

When his head finally hit against the oak of the desk, the bottle of the now empty Lorazapam bottle fell to the floor.
"...oak of the desk" also reads strangely. Since this is the end (is this the end, or are you planning on expanding the story?), you need to tighten up this paragraph. Maybe like so:

D.J's head fell hard against the oak desk. An [or "The"] empty bottle of Lorazapam rolled out of his limp hand, and met with the floor.


I hope some of this helps you. If you want, I'll edit a more paragraphs later.
 
You don't even know how much that has helped me. Thank you so much. I knew that althought not perfect it was getting better. You made some excellent points here and I'll be sure to use them in my editing. Thanks for the encouragement and your valuable time that you spent on the awesome critique. Thanks again.

Justin
 
laboi_22 said:
What are you to do when you’re afraid to wake each morning, so much that it burdens the soul, and the simple act of putting a smile on your face is painful, when all you really want to do is lie in bed dead to a world you hate so much?

These were the daily thoughts that fogged D.J. Crane’s mind.

I have a problem with the word these starting the second paragraph. It should refer to a plural but the previous paragraph was only one sentence.

As a second year student of the seminary at St. Mary’s College, he spent most of his time on campus in solitude. Never once did he share his feelings with anyone. He never allowed them see or even feel his pain. Other seminary students and even some of the professors envied his so called “positive outlook on life”. But living a life, trying to be something your not or something you can’t rather, can damage what inkling of self-esteem you may have left.

This is a perfect example of what I, personally, don't like about your writing. Get the age old mantra into your head show, don't tell..

It's boring to read about someone when they aren't actually doing anything - they are lifeless and there is no evidence provided to hit home the point made.

If he spent his time alone then I think it's best to show that rather than tell directly. Let someone ask him out somewhere - maybe just an acquaintance - but he rejects their offer in favour of going somewhere alone. Let's see an example of his "positive outlook on life", as perceived by the others. Maybe, taking my previous suggestion, someone can ask him out somewhere but he refuses (quite happily) as an envious professor overhears this before the character returns to his dorm (or whatever) and begins to cry, showing that he's a bit of a loner and not as happy with everything as everyone seems to think. This is showing and it helps to properly lengthen a chapter and create an emotional connection between the characters and the reader. :)

As he began to fall into his deep sleep, the one that he would never awake from, he prayed.

Ditch the one that he would never awake from as it is one of the worst Brownisms. It's in line with Silas prayed for a miracle and little did he know that he would get one in a couple of hours.

You could prolong this by showing. Let him be drowsy, let him see shapes around him begin to blur, let him pray, let his mind slip from prayer into...slower...thoughts...and...then...

D.J.’s head flopped and hit hard against the oak desk.

What about the rest of him? :confused:
 
Thanks so much. I obviously have quite a lot to learn about the art of writing. I think however that with this last edit I managed to delete the flowery words and the adverbs. I know that it is not quiet what it should be. To be quiet honet I struggle with showing rather than telling. I think that maybe if I plot out the story chapter by chapter/paragraph by paragraph I might do better. For example in chapter 1 I would have a character by the name of D.J. Crane. His attributes in include a loner, and a homosexual.

Then plot out with paragraph 2 I'll explain what actions show his being a loner. and so on. I'm not sure how effective this is. How do you guys do it? Anyone have any advice on showing not telling. I know that I really need to get efficeint with this skill in order for my writing to quit being crap. Thanks and any ideas welcomed!!
 
laboi_22 said:
I think however that with this last edit I managed to delete the flowery words and the adverbs.
Yes, you did.

To be quiet honet I struggle with showing rather than telling.

Think of your story in terms of scene by scene. Decide what each scene is supposed to say and use the character's actions and dialogue to demonstrate that.
 
Bravo, Laboi.

Don't clean a spot for the Nobel, yet, but much better!

I think the most impressive thing is that you kept at it, and reposted!

Well done.

Stewart and SirMyk (in their usual deftness) have managed to cover anything I might add.

Good show.
 
Thanks

Thanks Leckert for boosting my confidence. As usual you're always there making things better.

I re-wrote the passage above. I would appriciate advice. Thanks in advance and here is the last paragraph:

*********************************

Just as he completed the letter, sealed the envelope, and wrote the address to where the letter should be sent, he could feel his head getting heavy along with his eye lids. He could hardly keep them open. The picture of his family that hung by the window doubled. So had the window and the curtain. So had everything in the room. With his vision blurry and doubled, he put his head down on the desk. Falling asleep he mumbled a prayer, among all things he prayed, he never prayed before, but now he prayed. “Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil; may God rebuke him, we humbly pray….” A small puddle of drool from his mouth that he could not close formed on the desktop. His breathing got heaver and his arms weaker. The only thing he could think about was closing his eyes and sleeping. No matter how much he wanted to say goodbye to Jonathan or his other friends at the seminary, he couldn’t keep from drifting off into sleep. “O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who wander through the world for ruin of souls. Amen”, His words getting slower and heavier.

The empty bottle of Lorazapam rolled out of his flaccid hand, and met with the cement floor. He’d given up.
 
Better job of 'showing', this time. Not there yet, but getting better. This is somewhat less painful to read than your last!

Just as he completed the letter, sealed the envelope, and wrote the address to where the letter should be sent, he could feel his head getting heavy along with his eye lids. He could hardly keep them open.

This is awkward. Maybe "He finished the letter, and sealed the envelope. His vision blurred and his neck strained to hold his head up." or something like that. I'm sure you can come up with something.

You say his vision is "blurry and doubled". I think one implies the other. You do not need both.

Falling asleep he mumbled a prayer, among all things he prayed, he never prayed before, but now he prayed.

I'm guessing this is where he prays? (read your sentence aloud until you see how to fix it. If you don't see it, then read it to someone else.)

A small puddle of drool from his mouth that he could not close formed on the desktop.

Okay, how do you close a puddle of drool? See what you can do with this! :D I'm not positive, but I think this is called a split infinitive. Could be the wrong term, but it would be better if the subject and verb were closer together. This will eliminate the confusion.


...spirits who wander through the world for ruin of souls. Amen”, His words getting slower and heavier.

This is a sentence fragment. Replace the gerund with a real verb.

Before you write anything else, you need to read "Elements of Style" by William Strunk and E.B. White. I tell the writer of every work I critique here to read that book. I think you will find it invaluable.

Keep posting, Laboi! Good to see you back!
 
Thanks again for the advice. I will pick up the book tomorrow at our local Barnes and Nobels and read it. Maybe I'll learn a thing or two. I know this re-wrtie is much sloppier. I did try to show and not tell as much as I could but I also learned that by doing so you lenghten your story by a long shot rather than using summary.

PS It was his mouth he could not close---should have made that clearer
 
I was going to review your work again, but after reading your new posts, as well as leckert's, it seems he covered everything I was going to recommend. The enire first post of yours (the bulk of the story) has improved much. The last paragraph does need a little work. And since leckert got to recommend a book, I'm going to recommend one: On Writing, by Stephen King; it's a great read and will inspire you to continue writing.

(As a side note, thanks for the review on Amazon! Once more people read the novel there may be some fun discussion over there. Glad you enjoyed!)
 
Okay, so I lied again... I decided to tackle those final paragraphs of yours. Let me know what you think. I tried to slow it down a bit... because he's dying, and I think it brings affection.

laboi_22 said:
Just as he completed the letter, sealed the envelope, and wrote the address to where the letter should be sent, he could feel his head getting heavy along with his eye lids. He could hardly keep them open. The picture of his family that hung by the window doubled. So had the window and the curtain. So had everything in the room. With his vision blurry and doubled, he put his head down on the desk. Falling asleep he mumbled a prayer, among all things he prayed, he never prayed before, but now he prayed. “Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil; may God rebuke him, we humbly pray….” A small puddle of drool from his mouth that he could not close formed on the desktop. His breathing got heaver and his arms weaker. The only thing he could think about was closing his eyes and sleeping. No matter how much he wanted to say goodbye to Jonathan or his other friends at the seminary, he couldn’t keep from drifting off into sleep. “O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who wander through the world for ruin of souls. Amen”, His words getting slower and heavier.

The empty bottle of Lorazapam rolled out of his flaccid hand, and met with the cement floor. He’d given up.
D.J. addressed and sealed the envelope, his goodbye letter complete. His head grew ever so heavy, eyelids closing... he could barely keep them open as everything around him blurred: the fuzzy picture of his family by the window, the window curtains... even the window. Setting his head against the desk, he mumbled a prayer. He had never prayed before, but now he prayed. “Saint Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil; may God rebuke him, we humbly pray….” Saliva pooled against his cheek from a mouth agape, his every breath weakening, his arms like wet noodles hanging at his sides. He could think only of closing those heavy eyes and finding sleep. He wanted to say goodbye to Jonathan, and his other friends at the seminary, but sleep kept on calling. His mumblings drifted into incoherence, “O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who wander through the world for ruin of souls... Amen."

The empty bottle of Lorazapam rolled out of his flaccid hand, and met with the cement floor. His life was over.
 
Thanks sirmyk for the re-write. I think it sound profoundly better. I have to say off the subject that I did enjoy Palindrome Hannah infact I loved it. Also wanted to tell you that next month my brother's book store will be featuring your book. We'll be giving away bookmarks and the t-shirt althought I really wanted to keep it myself my brother would not let me. He may want it for himself. He said when he gets time he'll read the book too....

Anyway thanks again for recommending the last paragraph I really liked it. I did buy the book The Elements of style think it's kind of cool the way the student revised it from the inspiration of his professor long ago. I will try on writing also soon enough although King is not my favorite novolist I guess I would still enjoy it.

Thanks again everyone and I will assure you all that there will be more posts and I'll keep working at it. I do have a lot to learn though!!
 
laboi_22 said:
Thanks sirmyk for the re-write. I think it sound profoundly better. I have to say off the subject that I did enjoy Palindrome Hannah infact I loved it. Also wanted to tell you that next month my brother's book store will be featuring your book. We'll be giving away bookmarks and the t-shirt althought I really wanted to keep it myself my brother would not let me. He may want it for himself. He said when he gets time he'll read the book too....

Anyway thanks again for recommending the last paragraph I really liked it. I did buy the book The Elements of style think it's kind of cool the way the student revised it from the inspiration of his professor long ago. I will try on writing also soon enough although King is not my favorite novolist I guess I would still enjoy it.

Thanks again everyone and I will assure you all that there will be more posts and I'll keep working at it. I do have a lot to learn though!!

Laboi,

I have heard a couple of people now balk at the idea of reading "On Writing" because they are not Stephen King fans...

Please don't be put off by his fiction. Even if you don't like his writing, it is a fact that he is one of the most prolific writers of our time. I would urge you to not enter "On Writing" from the perspective of "reading a Stephen King book", but more with the idea of "sitting at the feet of a master and gleaning his wisdom". He really puts the craft, and the industry, of writing into a realistic world. This book was the one which made me realize that I can be a writer. Very inspirational!

Enjoy!
 
leckert said:
I have heard a couple of people now balk at the idea of reading "On Writing" because they are not Stephen King fans...

I don't think it's just because they are not Stephen King fans, which I'll come to...

Even if you don't like his writing, it is a fact that he is one of the most prolific writers of our time.

Prolific because he doesn't put much into his words. It's like reading the written version of some guy standing at a bar and telling a story. I tried the first short story from Everything's Eventual recently and it didn't really grab at all; that's okay, he's no longer my thing.

the idea of "sitting at the feet of a master and gleaning his wisdom".

Just because he's prolific doesn't make him a master of words. I think I read somewhere - it may have been here - that he says something obscene like if you don't write for four hours a day and you don't read for hours then you can't become a writer. Tat!

He really puts the craft, and the industry, of writing into a realistic world. This book was the one which made me realize that I can be a writer. Very inspirational!

As long as you take something from it, I suppose.


To Justin,

I have a suggestion for you. Go for a wander around this forum, don't just hang around in the Writers' Showcase. Try other threads, learn about other authors, read these other authors. There's a thread, I can't recall its title, where people are talking about what it takes to become a better writer and a big part of this, as argued by Shade, is that to become a better writer you have to read better writers. Looking at your profile I see the following people:

  • Christopher Rice
  • D*n Br*wn
  • John Grisham
  • Anne Rice
  • Jeffrey Deaver
  • Sue Grafton

I've read three of those people (and I can see you are reading Koontz at the moment) and I don't know who the other three are (Deaver, Grafton, C. Rice) or what they write but I'm guessing it's fast paced stuff like Br*wn and Grisham who, by all accounts, are not good writers.

Fair enough, you may enjoy their stories, but I would hope that you take the time to consider other authors who are maybe less mainstream but more critically acclaimed as writers. And, since you seem committed to improving your writing, it makes sense to learn how the better writers do it and then adapt what you learn from them to your preferred genre.

Imagine learning from real masters and then producing a well-written thriller.
 
As you can tell by the above post, Stewart is an avid Stephen King fan, and loves mainstream authors like those listed in your profile. Take this above post, and even the one above it, with a cliched "grain of salt." Koontz, Grisham, Grafton, Brown, and the rest of the "best-seller" law-firmish list are fun reads. Sometimes I want to beat there faces into the ground for becoming so popular and successful. But I wouldn't call them "bad" writers... they are indeed "good" writers, given that they are adored by a broad audience and are capable of selling millions upon millions of copies. I wouldn't, however, consider them "literary" writers, by any means, which are the "masters" I think Stewart mentioned above. When you go to the movies, sometimes you want a blow-em-up, pointless thriller (Bad Boys II, The Island, the second and third Matrix movies), and other times you want something more meaningful and indepth (Crash, Million Dollar Baby, The Matrix). Books are the same way. Sometimes you just want to blow through a book in a couple days for the **** of it; other times you want to sit back, and enjoy a masterpiece.

And as a personal side note: I think King is somewhere between "mainstream" and "master" when it comes to writing. Master: The Shining, The Stand, Different Seasons, It, Hearts in Atlantis, Bag of Bones; Mainstream: The Tommyknockers, Rose Madder, Needful Things, Desperation/The Regulators, From a Buick 8). But those are simply opinions, and Stewart is probably going to hi-jack that crap out of this thread for me saying so. Sometimes you just gotta take a stand. Ha! Willie! I kill me!
 
I understand Stewart's points althought I don't think I agree with him about who is a good writer and who isn't. Yes there are writers who seldom come around and produce masterpieces, but for the most part you have the writers who come around and produce a good story.

Not everyone in the literary world rates books and how its written if they like the story they like the writer. I've had the chance to re-read the d code by dan brown and then I finally understood how sloppy his writing is. I talked to a girl at work who was reading the book and raving about it. My response was his writing is crap but his story is good. She was like what do mean his writing is crap. She didn't feel that, but then again she's a reader who doesn't pay much attention to the way it's written but the story line.

So IMHO I understand where you're coming from Stewart, but I don't really know who you value as master writers in order to read them and it's in your opinion that the writers I read aren't good ones. There can still be lots to learn from them, and I have.

Thanks again everyone for the help! As always I can count on the faithful members here who are responsible for teaching me so much!
 
sirmyk said:
When you go to the movies, sometimes you want a blow-em-up, pointless thriller (Bad Boys II, The Island, the second and third Matrix movies), and other times you want something more meaningful and indepth (Crash, Million Dollar Baby, The Matrix).

Interesting, I would put The Matrix into the blow-em up, pointless thriller category and consider alongside The Lord of the Rings and many others. The fact that they are good makes them worth going to see even though you are not likely to benefit in any way from them. Even if you wanted to see things blown up, just for the hell of it, you wouldn't go to see a Vin Diesel movie. You want to enjoy your explosions.

laboi_22 said:
the writers I read aren't good ones. There can still be lots to learn from them, and I have.

Certainly. For writing thrillers you can learn how to plot effectively, inject pace into a story, and plan big. However, reading them - and I've read a few - they are completely about pace and there is no actual style to their writing; it's typically bland, shallow, and seldom emotes. By reading literary authors you can learn styles, how to properly colour a world, to properly inject life into a setting, and effectively how to work through a scene.

Imagine being able to take that sort of ability into a thriller's format...
 
Mainstream authors rarely have voice; literary authors have voice that is easily distinguishable.
 
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