U.S. News & World Report article on books

[novella]

A study on writing skill levels would also be valid as you are dealing with the same age group in a geographical setting. To negate the problem of comparing farm kids who just wanted to pass on through to those who are expected to graduate is accomplished through taking the top 1 or 2% of papers to analyze. In those days, the top kids in a given went on to college while the others headed for the homes and the fields. In other words, we are comparing the cream of the crop for each era. That is just about as equal as you can get.

First of all, what is your thesis here? You don't exactly say. I'm sort of getting that you think literacy of the 'cream of the crop' has declined. Is that what you think?

And is this just an anecdotal argument, or are you going to provide some kind of proof to back up what you're saying?

I can't really respond to this until you clarify your point of view.

 

[SFG75]

But you are clearly implying here that kids in 1890 had better math skills and could do those problems. I'm saying only 3% could probably do those problems, whereas 100% of kids are expected to pass today's high school math tests.

The 1890 math exam IS sent around as evidence for our decline, though I clearly indicate that the premise of a "dumbed down" educational system is incorrect. I state specifically that we need to take other matters into consideration(i.e.-economic needs and shifting of skills) I did that when I typed out the following line:

And look at the problems, they are very daunting. At the same time, a little perspective needs to be added.

I also pointed out that today's kids are more intelligent than Mr. "Figure an acre" or an old-fuddie-duddie who thinks we need to "get back to the basics" but who can't turn on a computer.

We are no longer in the agricultural era and our skills and what we emphasize have changed. In that regard, who is the educated one?

There is no indication in my post that I agreed that standards have declined or that i agreed with those who send the exam around on the net. As a matter of fact, I take issue with it.

 

[SFG75]

First of all, what is your thesis here? You don't exactly say. I'm sort of getting that you think literacy of the 'cream of the crop' has declined. Is that what you think?

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought it was pretty clear-check out the bolded portion.

I can't prove it, but I think it would be a great research topic to look at papers written by high school seniors in 1900, 1950, and the present day. Take the top 2% of papers in the same area that has roughly had the same ethnic make up. Use a simple vocabulary grade level system and see who has the best scores. I would postulate that as the twentieth century lumbered on, the scores decline. I would argue that the reason is due to technology. Now I could be wrong and maybe the scores have improved, but in working in the business, that isn't what I'm seeing. That, or I'm practically blind.

And is this just an anecdotal argument, or are you going to provide some kind of proof to back up what you're saying?

This line from my post answers your question clearly.

I think it would be a great research topic to look at papers written by high school seniors in 1900, 1950, and the present day.

I don't believe that I posted "it's a fact that....." or "it's undisputable that...."

 

[novella]

Yeah, fair enough. Not saying you need to prove everything you say, just asking.

I wonder if this is true, though. I heard a radio show featuring some high school seniors admissions essays for college not long ago and they were absolutely beautiful--moving, well structured, and great reading. Some guy was doing a book full of them as a snapshot of how accomplished many young writers are.

Obviously their vocabularies would have shifted substantially from what someone would use 100 years ago, but perhaps not declined. How does one really measure literacy? Is it the verbal understanding and expression of ideas--the clarity, precision, and depth of language use-- or is it measured by the use of certain words?

 

[SFG75]

Good question Novella. There are some programs out there that determine the grade level of any writing. I know that the windows98 program had a Fleish-Kincaid(sp?) bar that would pop up with a number letting you know. I would surmise that complexity in a given paragraph is determined through the number of syllables in each word, as well as the use of less common words. The program listed above would be one way to measure it, as inaccurate as it may be. You have to go by some standard, though better ones need to be created.

 

[novella]

But obviously college admissions committees are judging literacy in these essays, along with a bunch of other things. They way they assess literacy is by reading the essays. You could not, for instance, fairly judge a writer like Hemingway (just as one example) based on the length of his sentences or his vocabulary. The art of clarity and simplicity in verbal expression should never be underrated. These measures that judge writing by using a program to parse the components are woefully misguided. It might work for very young kids, but not for high-school level essays.

 

[Sitaram]

Smell-o-Taste-o-Feel-o-Vision will soon make all other media obsolete!

Smetafelev is the acronym

(just kidding... there is no such thing, to my knowledge)

 

[Dogmatix]

Personally I enjoy the written word, but a book is so much more than that. The quiet crinkle of a new binding first lain open. The smell of ink and glue. The exquisite grain of good quality paper beneath your fingers. The gorgeous rainbow of bindings on your bookshelf.

I'll never give up books and I believe that many others feel the same. Digital media is still in it's infancy and we have yet to see how much it will replace things like bank statements, currency, medical records. But for pleasure you simply can't beat a book.

 

[SFG75]

Personally I enjoy the written word, but a book is so much more than that. The quiet crinkle of a new binding first lain open. The smell of ink and glue. The exquisite grain of good quality paper beneath your fingers. The gorgeous rainbow of bindings on your bookshelf.

I'll never give up books and I believe that many others feel the same. Digital media is still in it's infancy and we have yet to see how much it will replace things like bank statements, currency, medical records. But for pleasure you simply can't beat a book.

I know what you mean-there is something about the smell of a new or old book, the feel of the pages of others. It is something that I definitely prefer as the kids I teach and other people I work with reach for their plastic molds to eagerly check e-mail or to text message one another. I don't know, as much as I like the internet, the other trappings of technology have my very worried about the future. From time to time, I'm tempted to unplug the t.v. and to carry it downstairs for the benefit of everyone. Sometimes slowing down and not having so much *noise* is something that I feel is under appreciated.

 

[ValkyrieRaven88]

I think the problem with literature is the quality. There are a few good authors among many writing things like Gossip Girl. The new generations are getting that sort of book growing up and thinking it isn't worth it, so they quit reading.
Just the other day, my younger brother's fifteen-year-old friend told me he'd read maybe four books in his whole life. It's getting sad. Kids don't feel they have anything to read that's worthwhile.
And I don't know if the adults on the forum realize this, but the literature we read in school is sometimes irritating. We don't read what we necessarily want to read, and we're forced to write essays interpreting every little fragment of every little sentence, and we're so focused on answering questions that we don't have time to enjoy the story.

 

[SFG75]

I think the problem with literature is the quality. There are a few good authors among many writing things like Gossip Girl. The new generations are getting that sort of book growing up and thinking it isn't worth it, so they quit reading.
Just the other day, my younger brother's fifteen-year-old friend told me he'd read maybe four books in his whole life. It's getting sad. Kids don't feel they have anything to read that's worthwhile.
And I don't know if the adults on the forum realize this, but the literature we read in school is sometimes irritating. We don't read what we necessarily want to read, and we're forced to write essays interpreting every little fragment of every little sentence, and we're so focused on answering questions that we don't have time to enjoy the story.

The books that are read at the junior high level are just horrid. I'm not exactly on the good side of a colleague of mine as I rolled my eyes upon hearing what is on the curriculum. There are a few other threads dedicated to the issue of boys and reading, but it's almost as if it's intentional. Boys like mystery, thriller, sports, and action stories. Where the Red Fern just doesnt cut it and it makes absolutely no sense to have kids read it in junior high. I don't care what is said about it, a story that culminates in the bawling over a dead dog is just so.....elementary and numbing to the senses of kids who've outgrown the "bambi" stage of life.