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A question for the writers amongst us...

novella said:
Self-censorship is often a very good thing. The value of self-censorship is that it, at its best and most functional, will force a writer to clarify ideas, give thought, be true. Of course if it stops a person from expressing anything meaningful, it’s not serving its purpose. Anyone going through that should sit down and write out all their thoughts on their frustration, what the “censor” is saying, what it sounds like, whose voice it is, and what you would say to it, how angry you are, what you want to express that it won’t let you. Think of it as self-therapy.

Self-censorship means something else to me. It means dumbing down what you write; toning down what you say and how you say it to avoid offending the timid masses or challenging their precious misconceptions. It can only lead to blandness, and there is far to much of that around already. I don’t want to waste my time reading that. I agree with Novella that prose should be honed and refined to make it the best it can be, but that should not be confused with censorship.

In respect to the topic under discussion, I think all writers must write for themselves, to be effective. That’s what comes first, anyway. If he or she is writing for an audience, then it must be one which likes what the writer likes, not all those others who like something else. As one writer told his publisher, who wanted to edit the life out of what he’d written: I don’t care if I have only twelve readers, so long as they’re the right twelve.” A pompous thing to say, but from a writer who believes in what he does, doesn’t just do it for the money. I can’t remember ever being much impressed by all those others. I’m not going to rush out to buy something because its author gets a big paycheck. That’s no indication of a book’s worth at all.
 
Sun-SSS said:
As one writer told his publisher, who wanted to edit the life out of what he’d written: "I don’t care if I have only twelve readers, so long as they’re the right twelve.”

I agree with that in every way.

Maybe I would not have put it quite that way because, yes, it does sound a little pompous but I think he is meaning that if there are only 12 people that enjoy his writing then it's enough.

If I started to alter my writing for others and didn't write purely and only for myself and my own enjoyment then I would feel like a whore. If I share my work with others and only one person liked it and 100 people hated it then it's totally fine for me. If I gave one person wings to fly to some other place and time or I made them see something, or if I made them FEEL something or simply if I gave them a smile, then it's enough for me. I'm happy with that.
 
Pompous

Yes. I heard it in a radio interview with publisher Hillary McPhee, promoting her book, Other People's Words. I read the book. The guy refused to let her edit, which pissed her off, but the book was too good for her to refuse. I hoped she might name the book, but she didn't. Her own book was pretty ordinary.
 
novella said:
(Wow, I'm mean. Was in a bad mood. Sorry.The internet is like the Wild West sometimes, a lawless unforgiving land of bandits and kangaroos. Oh, wrong country.)

Don't worry about it. I wasn't offended. But I do think that entertainment has been maligned by the "artists" of the world. I see nothing wrong with putting out a book that will make a reader laugh and cry and live the life of the characters.

And I don't believe you've ever graced our pages with any of your offerings?

Fair enough. I don't believe I have. Tell you what -- I'll post the first chapter of our next book, MOON'S WEB in the Writer's Showcase. I'd like to see what all of you think about it. Yes, it's genre -- paranormal romance, sort of like Laurell Hamilton or Christine Feehan, but I'd like to get any comments on whether it speaks to you. Thanks!
 
Cathy C,

Would you please provide attribution when you quote? I wasn't the one who wrote that second quote there, though it appears so in your post.

novella
 
SillyWabbit said:
If I started to alter my writing for others and didn't write purely and only for myself and my own enjoyment then I would feel like a whore.


So instead you do some utterly terrible job like accountancy or retail or marketing or picking cabbages, spend your whole life at someone else's behest, and you don't feel like a whore?

The way I see it is I do what I enjoy all day for money. I get to express myself creatively, I get a fair amount of recognition and fun out of it, and then I also get money. I work for myself, not for someone else. I do not do any writing that I don't like. Sometimes my agent or editor have good ideas that I listen to. I think it would be stupid and unprofessional not to.

I never feel like a whore. I feel like a really lucky person.

How is other work--say, whatever you do-- less whore-ish?
 
Oooh, are sensitive arn't we?

My comments were not aimed at you. If you READ what I wrote I said "I" would feel like a whore. Which is totally differnt to saying anybody that writes for somebody else or edits their work ( as in most writers and journos are whores )

Do you see the differnce?

As for money and recognition, they don't interest me in the least. If material gain and fame are your thing.... then go for it :)
 
SillyWabbit said:
I said "I" would feel like a whore. Which is totally differnt to saying anybody that writes for somebody else or edits their work ( as in most writers and journos are whores )

Do you see the differnce?


Sure I see the difference. Which is why I asked what service or product do you provide that is somehow less whore-ish? By your definition, wouldn't doing anything you really care about that provides a service or commodity for others be prostitution? Just wondering. Not sensitive at all. (Why would you assume that from my post?)
 
Oh, it just seemed that way to me since you are a writer and you responded to my post. I guess I was mistaken then.

Answering your question: writing is as totally different to flipping burgers as is accountancy is to selling your body for sex.
 
Well either way its not nice to use the word WHORE in a writers forum because anyone who has ever tried to publish anything probably feels like they got screwed. Especially after they've had to change the thing a jillion times and been berated and browbeaten for weeks or months over comma usage and word choice. Just to publish. You don't have to understand it, just don't make fun of it.

The question that comes to my mind is this: If you take a job you're not suited to or stay in one you'd rather not do at all does that make you a whore? At least from the standpoint of principle?
 
why oh why am I so misunderstood? :)

As I stated above, I didn't call anybody a whore. I said if I did that I would feel like a whore. Me. I. Myself. Just me. Nobody else. Me personally! Do you see? :)

I have the up most respect and admiration for anybody that gets published or puts their work out for public viewing be it forum, web site, magazine, newspaper, or novel.
 
SillyWabbit said:
why oh why am I so misunderstood? :)

As I stated above, I didn't call anybody a whore. I said if I did that I would feel like a whore. Me. I. Myself. Just me. Nobody else. Me personally! Do you see? :)

I have the up most respect and admiration for anybody that gets published or puts their work out for public viewing be it forum, web site, magazine, newspaper, or novel.

Poor you, thought I, then asked:
The question that comes to my mind is this: If you take a job you're not suited to or stay in one you'd rather not do at all does that make you a whore? At least from the standpoint of principle?
And not JUST to you, to anyone. I mean who doesn't prostitute themselves just a little to get where they want to go?

Thats the Q, not aimed at you...Silly Wabbit! Tricks are for MORE than just kids!
:D
 
Prolixic said:
Poor you, thought I, then asked:
And not JUST to you, to anyone. I mean who doesn't prostitute themselves just a little to get where they want to go?

Thats the Q, not aimed at you...Silly Wabbit! Tricks are for MORE than just kids!
:D

Yes, precisely. It is well understood that you are speaking about yourself Wabbit. The question is, if this is the case (writer who makes requested changes = whore, in your experience), what is the principle at work? Why do you feel this way? And does it apply to all areas of life in which you do things at others' request?

I do agree with Prolixic, though I think that "prostitute" oneself is inaccurate. Transacting commercially with the world does sometimes require compromises, and most of them are quite acceptable.
 
novella said:
I do agree with Prolixic, though I think that "prostitute" oneself is inaccurate. Transacting commercially with the world does sometimes require compromises, and most of them are quite acceptable.

Beg pardon, please, I dropped a hyperbole--with regards to prostitute.

But here's the voice of reason saying compromise. Its true. You do have to compromise day to day. And thats what a writer can't stomach. Perhaps its the artists temperment or just bullheadedness but something causes this feeling to well up inside..."Oh! I'm a whore!" and you throw your hand across your face and weep on the bed. Or maybe its because we'd rather be whores than sell off our children for profit. Thats what its like sometimes when you've worked on a story so hard--you get very attached and then you send it off to make its way in the world and...sigh. Sometimes its not good enough.
 
eh? I don't know when we make peanut brittle its pretty good. :p

My stack of returns is a lot taller than my stack of published. And please I'm not trying to be offensive I'm just trying to contribute to the discussion.
 
Dumb Question of the Day

OK, dumb question of the day -- Why is everyone being so hard on the poor working stiff? (Groans at her own very bad pun)

Seriously, earning money out in the workforce generally involves a certain amount of compromise and a functional bullsh**-o-meter. Writing for money isn't so different to my mind. Which is why there are so many "starving artists." I think that there is value in art for art's sake, but I also feel there's value in giving somebody a product that entertains for a little while, taking people out of the hum drum. If it makes people think, so much the better.
 
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