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Another kind of beauty!

Sitaram said:
Cemetaries and St. Petersburg remind me of Maria Xaralampovna von Tiesenhausen. I took her to church in the 1960's. This year, my Godfather took me to see her tomb in the cemetary.

I wrote the following a few years ago, regarding her:

Thanks dear Sitaram for your sharing this with us.
Indeed, this is a very sad thing, when with a person's death all those mementoes he/she deemed precious could be considered rubbish by other people... It feels as if one's life was lived for nothing, to be thrown away exactly as these dear things are... (I even do not want to say here how immensely wrong this is) But... This is the life we live and it is not for us to change drastically the usual ways of life.
Thank you again for offering us to feel your emotion, that was a very important moment for me.
I wish you not trouble yourself with sad thoughts.
 
Jordanville Monastery

Knowing Maria, and hurridly reading snatches of that book about Doestoevsky and Ambrosy/Zossima on her coffee table each Sunday, as she prepaired "Tsai" (which was really a large meal), influenced me to spend 6 months in the Russian Monastery in Jordanville NY. In those days, in the 1970s, no one would have ever dreamed that there would would day be glaznost, and an opening up. I worked in a small book bindery (in Russian pyereplotnaya) for an old Russian couple who had spent some years in Germany before coming to the states. They seemed to me to have absorbed some of the spirit of German exactness and strickness. It was a good experience for me. It was like being in a novel of Doestoevsky.

They printed all the old service books in Slavonic. I think there were people who would smuggle them into "iron curtain" countries, but I only heard rumors of an "underground".

I met some Old Believers during those years. There was one Old Believer who owned a chicken farm in Connecticut. He was originally from Australia. He was with the "papofsi" (with priests) as opposed to the "byez-papofsi".


Metropolitan Philaret was around in those days. I think he had been in Harbin China as a young man.

Zenia of Petersburg was still "blessed" and not yet Saint, in those days. People would come and have molebens said for Zenia.

There was a young rasofor monk named Igor. I spoke with him many times. He was from Canada. He has been a bishop now for years, Ilarion.

Just some memories of mine. I myself have no Russian or Greek ancestry. I taught myself enough of the two languages to converse. That was when I was age 22. Now I am age 56.
 
Sergo, Sitaram and Rustam,
I sit here and it very late at night and I read your posts. I feel so blessed!
Thank you for sharing your life, your experiences and your wisdom with me and the rest of the site.
I shall return tomorrow and answer each one of you. Now I shall go to bed, knowing that I have these wonderfull stories to wake up to and read one more time.
Thanks,
Flower
 
On PBS public educational television (America's version of BBC), I watched Dr. Spencer Wells, Journey of Man, where he goes all around the world, taking blood samples. The segment which shows him above the Arctic circle, in Siberia, with the Chukchi reindeer herders, whose life resembles, in some ways, life in prehistoric, neolithic times.... yet when the Chukshi spoke, I understood their Russian, and it did not sound remarkably different from other Russians I have heard. I was quite surprised, expecting that they would have some non-slavic native language. And, I wondered how they might acquire and maintain such fluency, since they do not use radios or television. Though, perhaps they do have their own language and it was just not spoken during the documentary.

I was in the streets of a city in USA, and the young man next to me looked Chinese, but was speaking Russian. I guessed where he was from, in Russian, and that he was Islamic. He was so amazed that I would know such things.

What I was thinking about today, after reading parts of this thread, was an old monk in Jordanville named Prokopy (Prokopius). I guess he was in his early 60's when I knew him, which was around 1974. He was the cook for the monastery. One day, he told me his story. He was such a simple innocent person. He came to the monastery, and lived for several years simply as a layman, a worker, working in the cowbarns in in the fields. He said that one day one of the Monks came to him and said,.... "Well, you should not cut your hair or shave, but should be as we are." So, for several more years, he worked as a layman, in laymans clothing, but did not shave or cut his hair. He said after several more years, another monk came up to him and said, "You have a long beard, as we do. You should not dress as a lay-person. You should become a novice and wear a black kassock." So, Prokopy did as the monk suggested. Another ten years went by, and one day, a monk came up to him and said, "You have been a novice for some years now, it is time for you to be tonsured as a rasophor." So, Prokopy was tonsured a monk. He did not move any higher, because he was such a simple person, possibly unlettered, and he would not have been suited for the complexities of the deaconate or priesthood. But, he was so humble, than he never requested anything. He was without pride or ambition. Many of the young Russians, and also the converts, were always eagerly pushing to become a novice, to be tonsured rasophor, to be tonsured small schema, to be ordained as deacons, to become priests. They were good people, but they had natural ambition and self-will. But Prokopy was blessed with such a simplicity. One might easily imagine him in one of Doestoevsky's novels. I am grateful that in my life I was able to know and work around such a unique person.

Every day, he would be in the kitchen, cooking. I never saw him angry. Quite frequently, during the day, as he walked by, he would say, in Russian, "Nu vot tak", which means "Well now there" (or something like that, perhaps others can render a better translation).


Anyway, that is my little story about old Father Prokopy.

We all ate our meals together in a dining hall which is called, in Russian monasterys, the "Trapeza", which is a Greek word for table.

The walls were covered with iconographic paintings. I always remember on one wall was written, above the paintings, in old church Slavonic, "Molchaniya ta-eenst-vo buduschee mir" which was something written by Isaac the Syrian, in Syriac, in the 6th century. It means "Silence is the mystery(sacrement) of the age to come", I dont remember the second part as well in Slavonic, but the statement concluded, "words are the weapons of this world."

Of course, monks were always encouraged to be silent during meals, and listen to the readings.

And, 365 days of the year, at every meal, there was always a HUGE pot of kasha available, which is boiled buckwheat groats (a kind of grain). Supposedly it has an enormous protein value. Monks never eat meat or fowl, and only have fish on certain days of the year. Also, potatoes every day. All the boiled potatoes you could ever want.

I learned an old Russian saying, "Schee da kasha, peescha nasha" which rhymes, and means "Cabbage soup and kasha is our food".
 
Football - Denmark - England 4-1

One thing I can get tired of some times, is because we are small, we can seem like a bunch of "farmers living in a city". I miss big thoughts, new things etc. We do think big thoughts and make new things, so we are capable, but not often enought for my taste.

I wrote this the other day, and then our national football team surprices the world! They have done it before and its such a nice surprise. We beat England last night 4-1! The english team with Beckham was humiliated, says the english press. England has not had such a bad game in 25 years!
So yes Denmark is capable of doing big things, every now and then :D

Flower
 
Didn't see much of the game but from what I did see Denmark seemed to play very well. England, particularly under Eriksonn don't seem to take friendlies seriously enough; they also tend to be crap at the start of the season August/September.
Doesn't take away from Denmark though, congrats.
 
"Bend It Like Beckham"

Flowerdk4 said:
One thing I can get tired of some times, is because we are small, we can seem like a bunch of "farmers living in a city". I miss big thoughts, new things etc. We do think big thoughts and make new things, so we are capable, but not often enought for my taste.

I wrote this the other day, and then our national football team surprices the world! They have done it before and its such a nice surprise. We beat England last night 4-1! The english team with Beckham was humiliated, says the english press. England has not had such a bad game in 25 years!
So yes Denmark is capable of doing big things, every now and then :D

Flower


I recently watch that movie on DVD. I do not know anything about soccer (foot ball) and had never heard of Beckham.

I know quite a bit about the Sikh religion, so it was very interesting from that point of view.
 
Sergo said:
Our dead were part of our lives once, and so far as I am alive I have with me the memories of the people that were dear to me. So in a sense they are alive when somebody remembers them. As to our parties... That's mostly explained by our customary ways, rather than by our need to feel a whole with our dead in this way. You know, to remember my grandfather and grandmother I do not need to come to our cemetery: they are in my heart.

Yes its your customary way to do such a thing, but I have never heard about this in any other country. I do believe that people in Spain, Italy, Greece brings flower, candlelight etc., but they dont have food and drink with them and have a small party. So I found it to be something special.
I am not sure but I have a sense that you have a "more natural" behavior when it comes to pain, sadness and sorrow than what I understand we have in Europe and USA. Its like we have to fix our sadness and pain and you dont really show it at a party then you stay at home. Its like people do feel for you if you are sad but I also sense that they want it to stop. Dont know if you know what I mean? I have only seen films from the eastern europe where people were crying at a party and that it was okay, nobody sort of paniced and felt it put a downer to the party, like they accepted it as a part of life and the party went on. I like this very much. As I believe that its not healthy to hide if you are in pain and it IS a part of life.

Sergo said:
Because that is a very beautiful place. That has been a summer residence of our Tsars once... I am sure you have seen a Samson Tearing Apart Jaws of a Lion? He's atanding there. There is a lot of sculptures, waterfalls, fountains there...

I have to get a book about St. Petersburg with a map, so I can see the places.


Sergo said:
You know, that could be truthful programme, partially truthful or faked fully. Sometimes reporters do the latter for the sake of the impact.
Of course we have people who were thrown out of their homes by their relatives or criminals - and children too. Children of alcoholics, narcoholics, etc. There are governmental homes for such children, and legally each homeless child has to be installed there. But in reality many children flew from such homes in order to live "homeless". I do not know what to do about it, as this doesn't seem as an independent problem to me, but rather a part of a complex of problems our Government has to go about solving someday.

I think that our people feel good about each other's right to freedom, if we are given time to think about it. So I am not sure if every family would have done the same by not keeping a boy locked, but I think that not many would be too repulsive about it...
And my brother after school went to Germany, where he lived without a possibility to come to see us or us to come to see him for many years... Then after 10 years or so he returned, married, bought a house near Moscow, and lives there happily spending money he has earned abroad. So you see - the tendency to be left alone is not too bad a thing.

Really, now Russians (Moscovites, as Moscow is a very special part of Russia) are much more concerned about security than we were 20 or 30 years ago. I do not think it s fully justified, as, for example, our flat was robbed only once, and I have never been attacked on a street etc., and I've been working with large sums of money for many years, carrying it with me here and there... So it is not much more dangerous in Moscow than in some other capital city in the world, I think.

I also think that a tendency to be left alone and explore may be a good thing. I think that you grow inside and that can only be good.
We do have security in Denmark, but not on the same scale as usa. We have junkies breaking into peoples house and steeling things, but I havent had any once breaking into my flat. And I have only once in my life been attacked in the streets on broad daylight, and that was in London.

Sergo said:
That's just a thread - if we wanted to keep it personal, we would have used @-mail....
You two just seem so caught up in your talk that I did not want to interfer. I think sometimes its hard to say, what to do in a public forum.

Sergo said:
Yep. Rather a small strip - 1500 sq. meters. Enough to buid several buildings and to make a garden. That's what I am doing since 1998 when I've bought my land for nearly nothing.
That sounds very nice! So you are building your own home?



Sergo said:
Yep. So huge, most of us never travels over more than a tenth part of it... Yes, but until very recently Russian has been known by nearly everybody within our borders...
I can understand this. It would the same if Denmark was as big as the whole of Europe. There are even places in Denmark I havent been to yet. We have many small islands I havent seen yet, they are very nice.
I think I read on your thread that you daughter has been to Denmark? Was she in Copenhagen on a holieday?

Flower
 
Rustam said:
Yes I am muslim :)
When i lived in Baku my native language was russian, because Baku was a part of USSR, but also i know Azerbaijanian.
In Baku i wanted to finish the gimnaziun of foreign languages, but my dream never become true instead i moved (as i said already) to Moscow and obtained there other required qualites ;)

About languages, when i studied in gimnazium i had practice in England, so when i arrived to Moscow to usuall school a gave 100 points forward to our english teacher.
My father half azerbaijanian half osetin(i don't know how is correct in english), so i become to understand, without any training osetin language, this how mu grandpa used to tell in azerbaijaninan [Ganinda var danishar], what mean [If you have in blood - you have tongue].

I need to get a map of the world! ;) Baku is very south? I picture you from what I have seen on tv. Dark and a muslim but not like the muslims from the middle east. I would love for you to tell me more about your culture. Did your whole family move, I mean grandparents etc.?

Flower
 
Sitaram said:
Cemetaries and St. Petersburg remind me of Maria Xaralampovna von Tiesenhausen. I took her to church in the 1970's. This year, my Godfather took me to see her tomb in the cemetary.

I wrote the following a few years ago, regarding her:

Sitaram, the story is just so beautiful. Thank you very much for sharing!
Did you live in St. Petersburg and for how long? Where are you from, I cannot see this from your profile?

I dont really agree with Maria´s shoebox going to garbage. She lives in you and now we have learned about her. I understand what you mean about the actually stuff not meaning anything to other people, but she shared her life with you and in that sense she is now living in you and now us who is reading about her.
I believe that we carry our lives in our hearts and that they will go with us when we die. And if we share then we live in other people as well.

Flower
 
The Universe as Shoebox

Flowerdk4 said:
Sitaram, the story is just so beautiful. Thank you very much for sharing!
Did you live in St. Petersburg and for how long? Where are you from, I cannot see this from your profile?

I dont really agree with Maria´s shoebox going to garbage. She lives in you and now we have learned about her. I understand what you mean about the actually stuff not meaning anything to other people, but she shared her life with you and in that sense she is now living in you and now us who is reading about her.
I believe that we carry our lives in our hearts and that they will go with us when we die. And if we share then we live in other people as well.

Flower

I agree with your notion that others "live on" within us. I have been trying to write a book, my first, though progress is slow, entitled "Too Small for Supernova" in which I explore the idea of immortality as "being remembered".

Of course, that only works (if it works at all) in the situation where the universe and life continue indefinitely.

If the universe is my shoebox, then what happens if that shoebox gets tossed out?

I think there is something very important about the point you make regarding our "living on" in the hearts and minds of others.

I suspect that the activity of writing and reading literature is involved in the quest for this particular brand of immortality.
 
Sitaram said:
On PBS public educational television (America's version of BBC), I watched Dr. Spencer Wells, Journey of Man, where he goes all around the world, taking blood samples. The segment which shows him above the Arctic circle, in Siberia, with the Chukchi reindeer herders, whose life resembles, in some ways, life in prehistoric, neolithic times.... yet when the Chukshi spoke, I understood their Russian, and it did not sound remarkably different from other Russians I have heard. I was quite surprised, expecting that they would have some non-slavic native language. And, I wondered how they might acquire and maintain such fluency, since they do not use radios or television. Though, perhaps they do have their own language and it was just not spoken during the documentary.

I was in the streets of a city in USA, and the young man next to me looked Chinese, but was speaking Russian. I guessed where he was from, in Russian, and that he was Islamic. He was so amazed that I would know such things.

What I was thinking about today, after reading parts of this thread, was an old monk in Jordanville named Prokopy (Prokopius). I guess he was in his early 60's when I knew him, which was around 1974. He was the cook for the monastery. One day, he told me his story. He was such a simple innocent person. He came to the monastery, and lived for several years simply as a layman, a worker, working in the cowbarns in in the fields. He said that one day one of the Monks came to him and said,.... "Well, you should not cut your hair or shave, but should be as we are." So, for several more years, he worked as a layman, in laymans clothing, but did not shave or cut his hair. He said after several more years, another monk came up to him and said, "You have a long beard, as we do. You should not dress as a lay-person. You should become a novice and wear a black kassock." So, Prokopy did as the monk suggested. Another ten years went by, and one day, a monk came up to him and said, "You have been a novice for some years now, it is time for you to be tonsured as a rasophor." So, Prokopy was tonsured a monk. He did not move any higher, because he was such a simple person, possibly unlettered, and he would not have been suited for the complexities of the deaconate or priesthood. But, he was so humble, than he never requested anything. He was without pride or ambition. Many of the young Russians, and also the converts, were always eagerly pushing to become a novice, to be tonsured rasophor, to be tonsured small schema, to be ordained as deacons, to become priests. They were good people, but they had natural ambition and self-will. But Prokopy was blessed with such a simplicity. One might easily imagine him in one of Doestoevsky's novels. I am grateful that in my life I was able to know and work around such a unique person.

Every day, he would be in the kitchen, cooking. I never saw him angry. Quite frequently, during the day, as he walked by, he would say, in Russian, "Nu vot tak", which means "Well now there" (or something like that, perhaps others can render a better translation).


Anyway, that is my little story about old Father Prokopy.

We all ate our meals together in a dining hall which is called, in Russian monasterys, the "Trapeza", which is a Greek word for table.

The walls were covered with iconographic paintings. I always remember on one wall was written, above the paintings, in old church Slavonic, "Molchaniya ta-eenst-vo buduschee mir" which was something written by Isaac the Syrian, in Syriac, in the 6th century. It means "Silence is the mystery(sacrement) of the age to come", I dont remember the second part as well in Slavonic, but the statement concluded, "words are the weapons of this world."

Of course, monks were always encouraged to be silent during meals, and listen to the readings.

And, 365 days of the year, at every meal, there was always a HUGE pot of kasha available, which is boiled buckwheat groats (a kind of grain). Supposedly it has an enormous protein value. Monks never eat meat or fowl, and only have fish on certain days of the year. Also, potatoes every day. All the boiled potatoes you could ever want.

I learned an old Russian saying, "Schee da kasha, peescha nasha" which rhymes, and means "Cabbage soup and kasha is our food".

Once again, thanks for sharing!
I think that Father Prokopy was a true believer, in the sense that he did not seem to have a big ego. In Denmark we have a saying, which translated sounds something like this "Blessed are the fools". And I really do believe that people like Father Prokopy were blessed and lived a very happy life. Often we can jump to conclusions and look down at people like that, as we are much too quick to judge and our egos are too big for our own good. I can easily relate this to "The Idiot" by Dostojevsky, which I am reading at the moment.

I have once stayed in a monastery for 4 days in silence. It was a big experience and I had a personal talk with the leader of the monastery. It was such a big experience to actually sit infront of him as he had a very gentle and loving energy about him and I still remember his words to me. He told me a bit from the bible and then looked me straight into the eyes saying "You are light!". This made such a big impact on me, that he still lives in my heart today. His energy was so clean and full of gentle love. He did not need to hurry and had so much patience with people. He has written many many books and shared his wisdom. His name is Wilfrid Stinissen. Later I met a priest in Denmark who joined Wilfrid at the monastery.

Flower
 
Kenny Shovel said:
Didn't see much of the game but from what I did see Denmark seemed to play very well. England, particularly under Eriksonn don't seem to take friendlies seriously enough; they also tend to be crap at the start of the season August/September.
Doesn't take away from Denmark though, congrats.

Thanks, Kenny!
I didnt see the game myself. I used to many many years ago. I read today in a danish newspaper, that our player, Gravesen who plays together with Beckham, promised not to tease Beckham when they both came back. :p

I cant say much about our players now adays but Denmark have surprised the world many times in football. And I guess people have heard of Michael and Brian Laundrup and Peter Schmeichel.

Flower
 
Sitaram said:
I agree with your notion that others "live on" within us. I have been trying to write a book, my first, though progress is slow, entitled "Too Small for Supernova" in which I explore the idea of immortality as "being remembered".

Of course, that only works (if it works at all) in the situation where the universe and life continue indefinitely.

If the universe is my shoebox, then what happens if that shoebox gets tossed out?

I think there is something very important about the point you make regarding our "living on" in the hearts and minds of others.

I suspect that the activity of writing and reading literature is involved in the quest for this particular brand of immortality.

I also think that you go on living in other people in other ways than just by memory.
I had a very close relationship with my father who is dead now. I know that I have picked up many things from him which I dont even know of, which lies in my subconsious. I have a son who has never met his grandfather but I can see my father in him sometimes. Its hard to put into words what it is. When my son was like 10 years old, I sent some photos of him to my aunts and uncles. My fathers sister told me, she got tears in her eyes when she saw the photos, as she also could see my father in my sons eyes and in his energy. There is one thing which my son has and which my father also had. My father had a soft heart for children, he could not take children to suffer in any way and he was gentle towards them. Once there was a family in our neighbourghood who neclected their children very much, my father then invited the two children to our house, made them meals and gave them hot baths. They were starving and hadnt had a shower/bath in ages. Later the family moved away. Today I can see my son has the same soft heart with children, and some people have talked about this. He is very patience with small children and take time for them to learn. I am not like this, even though I do like children and his father is not like this at all. So I can only think that he must have gotten it from my father, even though I dont know how.
So you see, Sitaram, I do believe that we as people live in other people in ways we not always can explain.

Your book sounds very interesting. Please do tell more.

Flower
 
Hi Flower!
I've only today returned from SPb, and will try to write a word or two here this week.
See you!
 
Sergo said:
Hi Flower!
I've only today returned from SPb, and will try to write a word or two here this week.
See you!

Hi Sergo,
You have been missed! Have you been away on business?
I shall look forward to be hearing from you again soon.
Flower
 
Flowerdk4 said:
Hi Sergo,
You have been missed! Have you been away on business?
I shall look forward to be hearing from you again soon.
Flower

Thanks.
Yes, I have. Toooo big part of my life is business these days...
 
I went into the city of Copenhagen today and I noticed one of our churches looking a little Russian. Here is a photo so you can see what I mean:

ai21.photobucket.com_albums_b299_FlowerDK_VorfrelserkirkeiKbenhavn.jpg
 
Flowerdk4 said:
I went into the city of Copenhagen today and I noticed one of our churches looking a little Russian. Here is a photo so you can see what I mean:

You know, Flower, it is really quite like our Russian church, save for the top spiral part... Really it is like "kolokol'nya" - a building adjacent to a church where the bells are situated...
 
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