Are Picture Books Art or Literature?

[Motokid]

Do picture books deserve there own forum, or sub-forum?

Is it the story, or the illustrations/pictures that makes a "good" picture book?

I'm speaking mainly of children's picture books.

 

[Wabbit]

Difficult question. Define art. Define entertainment. Where is the line between the two? Very difficult. There was a discussion in a thread that touched on all this recently

 

[lies]

I think picture books are neither art nor literature. They have their own merit, but ultimately, you can't compare them to these two.

 

[jenn]

I think picture books are neither art nor literature. They have their own merit, but ultimately, you can't compare them to these two.

ooooh not true, not true! do you have children? have you spent anytime in the childrens section? there is definitly a load of crap out there(any of the recent madonna books) however there is art; gorgeous, heartbreaking, uplifting, moving, breathtaking artwork in children's lit. a summertime song by irene haas. find it and really examine the work that went into each one of those paintings (watercolour and pastels) and then explain to me why, because it is accompanied by a story, it is not art.

as to literature, well define literature. to a 5 year old, maurice sendack's in the night kitchen is certainly literature. it is obnoxious and belittling to say that because a book has pictures it is not art or literature. head to your nearest kindergaarten my friend.

 

[Motokid]

Thanx

ooooh not true, not true! do you have children? have you spent anytime in the childrens section? there is definitly a load of crap out there(any of the recent madonna books) however there is art; gorgeous, heartbreaking, uplifting, moving, breathtaking artwork in children's lit. a summertime song by irene haas. find it and really examine the work that went into each one of those paintings (watercolour and pastels) and then explain to me why, because it is accompanied by a story, it is not art.

as to literature, well define literature. to a 5 year old, maurice sendack's in the night kitchen is certainly literature. it is obnoxious and belittling to say that because a book has pictures it is not art or literature. head to your nearest kindergaarten my friend.

You are by far the greatest person on this site that I have seen. There may be others, but you're the best so far.

Thank you for your time and thoughts.

 

[jenn]

1 archaic : literary culture
2 : the production of literary work especially as an occupation
3 a (1) : writings in prose or verse; especially : writings having excellence of form or expression and expressing ideas of permanent or universal interest (2) : an example of such writings <what came out, though rarely literature, was always a roaring good story -- People> b : the body of written works produced in a particular language, country, or age c : the body of writings on a particular subject <scientific literature> d : printed matter (as leaflets or circulars) <campaign literature>
4 : the aggregate of a usually specified type of musical compositions

where do picture books fall short of this definition?

 

[Stewart]

Books that consist of about 16 pages following the adventures of Ernest the Happy Blue Pig as he searches for other animals on the farm (where could they be hiding? ) are mostly full of sketches with one line of text saying Maybe Gordon the Nervous Horse is in the stable... and, in my opinion are not art because art, in my opinion, seeks to ask questions and the questions being posed are text. The illustrations are just an extra feature thus making these books literature at the basest level. The pictures on their own are art - as part of a book they are literature.

Other childrens' books, thinking explicitly of the first two books in Clive Barker's The Abarat Quartet, feature huge passages of text and also intersperse pictures. These are still just literature.

Art you display; literature you read. You appreciate both.

 

[lies]

ooooh not true, not true! do you have children? have you spent anytime in the childrens section? there is definitly a load of crap out there(any of the recent madonna books) however there is art; gorgeous, heartbreaking, uplifting, moving, breathtaking artwork in children's lit. a summertime song by irene haas. find it and really examine the work that went into each one of those paintings (watercolour and pastels) and then explain to me why, because it is accompanied by a story, it is not art.

as to literature, well define literature. to a 5 year old, maurice sendack's in the night kitchen is certainly literature. it is obnoxious and belittling to say that because a book has pictures it is not art or literature. head to your nearest kindergaarten my friend.

I never said that because a book has pictures in it, it is not art or literature. I didn't even imply it! You said that. I find it obnoxious and belittling that you would put words in my mouth, as if I'm not capable of saying the things I want to say.

 

[jenn]

I never said that because a book has pictures in it, it is not art or literature. I didn't even imply it! You said that. I find it obnoxious and belittling that you would put words in my mouth, as if I'm not capable of saying the things I want to say.

you are correct, i did assume and you know what they say about assuming. HOWEVER, you gave no explanation for what you did say, " that they were neither art nor literature, that they have their own merit, but ultimately you can't compare them to these two."
what does that mean? you've made a bold statement and given nothing to explain. i'm here, lets debate.

 

[Occlith]

Are Picture Books Art or Literature? Is it the story, or the illustrations/pictures that makes a "good" picture book?

Both. However I would say that the story and how it is told, is more important.

The illustrations help to set the mood of the book and to clarify the story. Young children are open-minded when it comes to pictures, and they like many styles of art.

Picture books are usually only thirty-two pages long, written for young readers or are meant to be read aloud to a child, so in addition to the story itself, the text should make good use of rhythm or rhyme, and be well paced. If it is not, a child will stop reading or listening to the story.

A great picture book combines the best of art and text and may be considered literary art.

 

[jenn]

Both. However I would say that the story and how it is told, is more important...
A great picture book combines the best of art and text and may be considered literary art.

well said.

 

[lies]

you are correct, i did assume and you know what they say about assuming. HOWEVER, you gave no explanation for what you did say, " that they were neither art nor literature, that they have their own merit, but ultimately you can't compare them to these two."
what does that mean? you've made a bold statement and given nothing to explain. i'm here, lets debate.

"Literature" and "art" are both very subjective categories, and I myself am very reluctant to call things "art" and "literature", especially if you would write them with a capital A and L. Now I'm sure there are great children's books out there. I'm a big Dave McKean fan myself, so it's only natural I enjoyed Ash and The Day I Swapped My Dad for Two Goldfish, but would I go as far as saying they are both art and literature? I personally wouldn't. Does that mean that someone else can't disagree with me? Of course not, and everyone else's point would be as valid as mine.

Maybe I should've been more clear in my previous answer, you're right, but the question seemed so utterly silly: asking "are picture books art or literature?", to me, is like asking "is everything ever written or painted literature or art?", to which the answer would obviously be no. You have to look at it on a case to case basis, just like anything else.

 

[Motokid]

silly question?

Why is the question silly?

I've seen famous things in museums that are considered "great art" by people the world over, that to me look like something a pre-schooler puked-up.

Not too long ago there was a protest about a sculpture of jesus I believe that was made out of some kind of animal shit. To some it was art, to others it was shit.

How many velvet Elvis's and "dogs playing poker" prints have been sold? Are they art or not?

Have an opinion. I got not problem with that. But don't get all up in a knot when you print it, and then have others comment on what you've printed.
If it's taken out of context it's because you didn't provide enough information to get your point across.

There are no silly questions, only silly answers. That's just my opinion.

 

[lies]

Why is the question silly?

I already stated my opinion on that.

If it's taken out of context it's because you didn't provide enough information to get your point across.

Anyone can take anything out of context. Providing enough information to get your point across has nothing to do with it. Besides, jenngorham didn't take what I said out of context, she (I'm assuming?) just interpreted my words differently than I had intended them.

There are no silly questions, only silly answers. That's just my opinion.

One I'll also have to disagree with.

 

[Motokid]

opinions

A rather favorite saying here in America, one that can be heard quite frequently...

"Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one, and most of them stink."

lies: I was refering to the fact that you make a statement, and then when someone comments, you have a tendacy to appear peeved at how your words are "interpreted".

"I find it obnoxious and belittling that you would put words in my mouth, as if I'm not capable of saying the things I want to say."

It appears, from the face value of your text alone, that you're not happy with how your words are viewed on some occaisions.

So sayith the newest asshole from America to grace this forum....

 

[lies]

lies: I was refering to the fact that you make a statement, and then when someone comments, you have a tendacy to appear peeved at how your words are "interpreted".

That's not exactly true. I still think my first post, though a bit on the short side, didn't deserve the reply it got from jenngorham. I didn't attack you, I just stated my opinion on this issue (And I even refrained from using the word bullshit this time!), so I was indeed rather peeved that she called me (or my opinions) obnoxious and belittling.

 

[novella]

Dang, kids, how important is this question anyway? Is it worth all this?

"Is it a candy or is it a gum?"

Don't we all know that some picture books have great artistic merit and some have zilch?

Don't we all know that some picture books have literary merit and some don't?

I know at least one great picture book illustrator who is a great artist as well. Aside from illustrating the Dinotopia books he's well-known for his US Postage Stamp artwork, which is a whole subgenre art known to the few who do it.

I think Motokid understandably wants to generate some heat re picture books and attendant issues. That's cool. IMO, they fit fine under the Children's Fiction board, and discussions of particular books is more interesting, IMO, than making generalizations.

 

[Motokid]

fire

Some people can find great enjoyment sitting by a fire and watching it burn. Enjoying the heat.

I, personally enjoy poking it and playing with it. Getting it as hot as I can, and as bright as I can. Seeing how high I can make the flame go. Sometimes I might get burned, but I always have fun.

I am seeking peoples opinions on broad topics before I dig down into specific details. Plus stirring some emotion into the mix when I can. It's my way of having fun in a forum.

Plus, in another forum, in the children's fiction section, I was told to use the general forum to get some feedback on picture books. So here I am. getting feedback.

Thanks for your imput.

 

[lies]

Dang, kids, how important is this question anyway?

Of course it's not important. Most topics aren't important.

 

[novella]

Of course it's not important. Most topics aren't important.

"Is it a candy or is it a gum?" is one of the most important questions ever posed, right up there with "How is the self defined?"

Also, "What's your favorite color?" and "Did you see the Seinfeld where . . .?"

You are obviously unplugged from the Zeitgeist of Meaningtuality.