Bad influence of Harry Potter

[member 737]

Idun, here's link to the HP forum on WP with answer to your question

Thank you, Beatrycze. This is very interesting.

 

[Beatrycze]

I didn't hear about him before reading this text. But do you think that it's significant in any way? I don't know if he's famous in UK.

 

[member 737]

Well I haven't heard of him before, but I think his being "real" man plays a role. People, who criticise Harry Potter often say, that the book encourages children to become wizards in real life. Nicholas Flamel was a real wizard (or at least he tried to be), so giving him as a role model may be worrying.

 

[Ice]

Well I haven't heard of him before, but I think his being "real" man plays a role. People, who criticise Harry Potter often say, that the book encourages children to become wizards in real life. Nicholas Flamel was a real wizard (or at least he tried to be), so giving him as a role model may be worrying.

I had heard of him but I think that there is no basis to what you are saying - you cannot compare alchemy to wizardry. Alchemy is akin to Chemistry (especially in the early days). It was Alchemists that discovered gunpowder and many of the basic techniques of metallurgy and pharmacology. Wizadry is merely fantasy. People can not become Wizards - where as people can, if they so choose, study alchemy.

 

[h_carnahan]

Have anyone heard that the guy from the first Harry Potter book - Nicholas Flamel - is a historical person, a real alchemist?

Not only is Nicholas Flamel a real person but so was his wife, Pernelle whose name is also noted in the 1st book. And Nicholas Flamel was working to find the Philosopher's Stone. Strange isn't it? I guess J.K Rowling really does her research! Here is a very interesting website on Nicholas Flamel... it claims that he could still be alive, because their were rummors that when he planned his funneral, it was an empty coffin....
http://www.alchemylab.com/flamel.htm

 

[Ice]

I was actually faintly impressed that Rowling had done her research into Flamel. I find it definately enhances a book if the author does their research (especially when actual people are mentioned), even if the book is based on fantasy.

Obviously some thing’s aren’t quite right, as Flamel only lived to be 80 years old (unless you actually believe he could still be alive, which I don’t for a moment - its more likely his grave was looted in search of the stone )

 

[RisingPhoinex]

I agree, not only doees the research enhance the books apeal but it signals at its future value as a classic. I have always loved the way that she has incorparated the names of occult leaders into her world. In fact that is the apeal of her books, not the fantassy of Tolkein or the reality of Tolstoy but a worl between where our world is real but others exist as well.
Thanks,
RP

 

[RainbowGurl]

Well it is kind of a bad influence in some parts I agree.
Like I remember seeing on the news that after seeing the first Harry Potter film many children have wanted a pet owl, like what Harry has.
I think its more of becomes obsession to children rather than a bad influence.
I think if there was more violence then it may inpact on alot more bad behaviour.

 

[Ice]

That can be said about many films though Now i'm curious, how many children died or were injured after watching superman (or peter pan for that matter) and they tried to fly? How is that any better an influence? (Just using those two films of the top of my head as an example) Honestly if children were to pick up a stick and pretend they were a wizard I'd be far happier with that, rather than them jumping out of windows believing they could fly! I think we need to give children a little bit of credit - yes thay are easily influenced but they're not stupid.

 

[magemanda]

It has been documented that Nicholas Flamel was also the Grand Master of the Priory of Sion, which features heavily in Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code. Flamel was an extremely famous alchemist, and had his fingers in many pies, including politics.

 

[member 737]

I had heard of him but I think that there is no basis to what you are saying - you cannot compare alchemy to wizardry. Alchemy is akin to Chemistry (especially in the early days). It was Alchemists that discovered gunpowder and many of the basic techniques of metallurgy and pharmacology. Wizadry is merely fantasy. People can not become Wizards - where as people can, if they so choose, study alchemy.

But didn't alchemist also try to create homunculus and change lead into gold? Such attempts must have included something more than chemistry.

 

[Addie Cay]

I teach 5th grade (evil, I know). As a teacher, I've seen many students use the HP books as an intro into recreational reading. For that reason alone I think the HP books are worth reading. When they first came out I'd use the books as a read aloud in my class. Due to religous teachings, many students were not allowed to sit in and I also had to have letters of permission from the students allowed to listen to the story. Out of fairness to the entire class I discontinued reading the HP books. Pity, most of the parents not allowing their children to read the books had not even taken the time to read the books and formulate an opinion of their own. Many of the organizations criticizing the HP books haven't even taken the time to read through them.

 

[Beatrycze]

So to have any opinion on HP books one should have read all 2000 pages already written? Most parents don't have time for this...
Furthermore, I think HP shouldn't be read at schools, as it doesn't provide any educational value. What children read at leisure time- it's problem of their parents.

 

[Ice]

The majority of books my primary school library owned were mainly for recreational reading (of which we had one period a week) and had little or no 'educational value' - why shouldn't they be able to have Harry Potter?

 

[Addie Cay]

Actually there is a huge campaign to promote recreational reading in the school system. Studies show that children who spend time reading for pleasure tend to build reading comprehension. There is also a study being conducted at the moment concerning the effect that reading alouds have on children at all grade levels. It is my personal opinion that if someone is going to make the claim that a book promotes witchcraft and satanism, then that someone should have a bit more knowledge of what lies between the covers of that particular book.

 

[Halo]

Beatrycze, you say children should only be allowed to read books in school that have educational value? This seems a sure way of putting millions of children off reading. Anyway, what do you define as "educational value"? Do you mean non-fiction, where children are learning why boats float etc? In a way all books have an educational value anyway, in that the child is becoming a better reader by reading them and practising their reading skills and their critical skills. I still believe there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Harry Potter books, and I agree that people should have read a particular book before they can have an opinion about it or a problem with it, otherwise they are just "jumping on the bandwagon" and copying what others think.
Addie Cay - do you teach in the USA? I find it almost unbelievable that you had to have permission slips before the children could listen to HP!! I have read it in schools with no problems! (UK)

 

[Addie Cay]

Halo, I do teach in the US. Before they hype of whether HP was satanic reading material began, I had no problem reading HP in the classroom. In fact, it was a 5th grade student that suggested I read the first of the series. I read the book in class and some students loved it while some didn't. It wasn't until later that we were asked to have our students have permission slips. The principal at my school asked us to send home a letter stating that HP was going to be read in class. Parents were given the option of allowing their child to stay in the classroom and listen to the story or to sit out in the hall with a book of their own choosing. After trying it this way, I felt it placed too much of a stigma on the students choosing to sit out in the hall. Half of them wanted to be inside the classroom listening to the story and the other half believed we were reading a book dealing with satan. On the positive though, I did have a parent that decided to pick up the book and read it. Before reading the book this parent was set in the firm belief that HP taught witchcraft and satanism.

 

[Ice]

I'm glad thats things aren't that way over here (UK) - I remember a series of books entitled Mr Majeika - that was about a wizard and I don't remember there being any fuss made over that.

 

[member 737]

So a question arises: why there is so much fuss around HP and not around other books about wizards? I can't understand it myself.

Another point: a lot of people who states that accusations against HP are groundless claims that parents should first read the book, and then make their own opinion. It implies that every person who has read HP must see it is a nice book for children. What if after reading HP a parent decides that this book actually promotes satanism and witchcraft?

Funny coincidence: in Polish edition, in HP part4, a ritual which is indicated as satanistic by those who regard HP as a dangerous book is described on the page 666. Is it also in British or American edition?

 

[Jenem]

So a question arises: why there is so much fuss around HP and not around other books about wizards? I can't understand it myself.

Probably because HP books are so popular, and so an easy target

What if after reading HP a parent decides that this book actually promotes satanism and witchcraft?

I think it should be their right to choose that their own kids don't read the books, but not choose for everyone else. The main thing is that they DO read them before they make the decision (informed decisions are the best kind, I think)

I don't suppose it would help if I pointed out that witchcraft and satanism are two different things.