I'm a big meanie

[Irene Wilde]

Yes, of course taking work and using it as if it were yours is wrong. I think that's not the issue here.

The issue is that you went out of your way to hurt somebody. There can be no excuse for that.

I respectfully disagree. The issue was someone placed in a position of authority was stealing other people's work and claiming it was his own. That person no longer holds that position of authority and fraudulent reviews are being removed.

Clouding that issue with accusations about motive is, in my opinion, doing still more harm to the credibility and integrity of this forum's management. Especially when the accusations are coming from a moderator.

 

[RitalinKid]

You're not a big meanie, novella. These are not happy times here, and regardless of whether your thread was meant as an attack or not, in this climate, it was easily read that way. We know you meant well, but your rush to break the story without a full investigation (whatever that entails) left the thread smelling like an attack. But, hey, it's water off your back, water of our back. This is still a great place, and it's great to have you around. Anyway, we'll let Darren take care of the enforcement, and if we have problems, we'll take it up with him.

 

[Wabbit]

I respectfully disagree. The issue was someone placed in a position of authority was stealing other people's work and claiming it was his own. That person no longer holds that position of authority and fraudulent reviews are being removed.

Clouding that issue with accusations about motive is, in my opinion, doing still more harm to the credibility and integrity of this forum's management. Especially when the accusations are coming from a moderator.

Well, you would dissagree wouldnt you?

I respectuflly dissagree back with you. The title of this thread was "I am a big meanie" So this thread is about Novella, is it not? This thread is about her being a meanie or not. So it is the issue.

Martin may have been in the wrong but what Novella did is disgusting. What sort of person goes out of the way to hurt anothe person? She did not know that Martin had copied reviews. All she was interested in was to dig up dirt on Martin and hurt him that way.

 

[novella]

Well, you would dissagree wouldnt you?

I respectuflly dissagree back with you. The title of this thread was "I am a big meanie" So this thread is about Novella, is it not? This thread is about her being a meanie or not. So it is the issue.

Martin may have been in the wrong but what Novella did is disgusting. What sort of person goes out of the way to hurt anothe person? She did not know that Martin had copied reviews. All she was interested in was to dig up dirt on Martin and hurt him that way.

SillyWabbit,

Since you insist on arguing, if you read my original post in this thread I spell out my feelings on this pretty clearly. I stand by my postings. I believe what Martin did was not an "innocent mistake" as he characterized it, but an intentional act that knowingly violated another person's rights. As I make my living trading in copyright, I find this truly reprehensible, particularly as it was done by a senior mod on a site dedicated to books and authors.

You are forcing me to defend myself in this way. I'm surprised that you have not taken the mod guidelines to heart and considered the ongoing effect of posting critical comments about me that are openly hostile (for no obvious reason) to Irene. What is your aim here? What I did was well within what my conscience feels is right. That said, I do respect Darren's need to earn a living (and therefore understand his request that the site not become a battleground), as I hope others respect my need (and other writers' need) to also earn a living, which we can only do if the world honors copyright law.

This was NOT a personal attack. I was NOT digging dirt up on Martin. Martin has directed people to his reviews several times, saying that they are evidence of his contribution to TBF. Should I not have read them? Once I read them and sensed something was wrong, should I have ignored that?

You seem to think that I initiated this stuff. Look to Martin. He's the one who posted those reviews, repeatedly over several years. This was bound to happen. I can't take responsibility for it.

 

[Wabbit]

This is not about what Martin did. That's over. Martin has been punished. I accept what he did was wrong, ok??????

The FACTS: You went out to dig up dirt on Martin. At the time you did that, you were not aware that he had copied those reviews. You only wanted to find SOMTHING to get him. And you did. are you happy now? Did anybody force you to do that? No.

I'm not going to argue this any longer. If you think what you have done is not wrong then OK.

 

[Stewart]

The FACTS: You went out to dig up dirt on Martin. At the time you did that, you were not aware that he had copied those reviews. You only wanted to find SOMTHING to get him. And you did. are you happy now? Did anybody force you to do that? No.

You are missing the point. Completely. Martin boasted about the quantity of his reviews and, to novella, it sounded suspicious since 99% of Martin's posts rarely make it beyond ten words; maybe his reviews were only ten words...it piqued her curiosity. On reading one she felt it was not Martin's written style and she simply investigated and found them to be the work of others - one dating back to 1997.

It is not dirt.

Anyway, what would you rather? Martin being found out before one of the original writers found out or one of the original writers making the discovery?

 

[Irene Wilde]

Are moderators always moderators, or can they "put on the cap" when needed?
Moderators are always moderators and should act as such whilst they are moderators. There has been some confusion about this, and again, I will be addressing this.

How are warnings and bans discussed/issued? How can people appeal?
Minor issues will be dealt with via PM from a moderator. These are not warnings, but a bit of "friendly advice".
All official warnings (part of the three-strikes system) are discussed and issued if the majority of mods/senior mods are in agreement.
Bans are discussed in a similar manner, but I have overall veto regarding bans.

If people want to appeal against a warning they should contact me, and only me. If people want to appeal against a ban, either in person or on behalf of someone else, they should again contact me.

I would humbly suggest that if a moderator has a problem with a member the guidelines that Darren outlines above be followed. Otherwise, the guidelines become meaningless and, again, the integrity of the forum is being jeopardized.

 

[jenn]

i think it unfair to hope that people forgive martin and move on, and then the very thread where novella apologizes and states her case, start her public flogging. people are upset and harsh words have been spoken by both sides. everyone needs to step back and take a breath. forgive and forget isn't in everyone's genetic makeup, i understand, but should we all start cutting people out who have done things we think are wrong? who among us would have a friend left? in the immortal words of rita sullivan " if we all bought drinks for them that we'd gone off on, we'd be none of us sober."
yes i think this whole matter could have been handled differently. hindsight, right? i'm putting on my canadian hat here people. can we just agree to disagree, accept apologies where they have been offered in good faith, and retreat?
come on!!!!! there are haiku's to be written, and so far no entries are even at the risk of being editted!!!!!


i wanted to add why i keep advocating for forgive and forget. i do joke about playing the canadian and i don't want to come off as a bleeding heart. i work/volunteer in women's shelters and family resource centers. i come across women all the time who have made mistakes, taken a wrong turn on their paths, and have lost their children because of it. when they come to the center to take parenting courses they of course do not have to share the reasons for why they have lost their children, but they often do. some of them never get there kids back, and some work hard and they do. we may not like their explanations for the mistakes they've made but it is important that people be made to feel that they deserve another chance. i believe that when apologies are honestly made, we should do what we can to accept them. and i would have reacted the same in this situation regardless of the players.

 

[Ell]

jenn,

Bless your great, big Canadian heart!!

ell