Literature as a Pleasure Read?

[Kookamoor]

Did you actually try to read them with an open mind or were you convinced it was boring before you started?

In my experience, even kids who went into English class and enjoyed reading found the 'classics' dull because they were dissected to bits! I also don't think the literature chosen was particularly relevant to 16 year olds. I think some of the literature that is most acclaimed can only be appreciated with more world experience. I never understood Jane Austen and Charles Dickens until I learnt a little more about that historical period. The language put me off and the themes seemed archaic. I had to age a little more and have more life experiences first.

I think some kids are so put off by the concept of literature as boring, that they never try and pick it up again after high school.

If someone has never been exposed to finer literature that puts them under the laziness category.

I know you're not out to criticise ions, but I still think you're wrong in this statement. They can have all the access in the world to this literature, and these days with the internet most people do. But if they are not aware of its beauty, if no one has said, "here's the library, try this book, I love this author", they will be unlikely to appreciate it.

I think this awareness comes largely from their influences: parents and peers... and the media.

Parents: As abecedarian and muggle said, it is SO important for parents to read to their kids and instill this love of reading if the kids are going to learn more about reading. But if the parents have no love for reading... it's a vicious sycle.

Peers: This depends on the social structures of the child - so often there is a feeling that reading is dorky (see thread) and it may be off putting for teenagers to read at that point. In english classes there may be derision for the classics they are 'forced' to study.

Media: I think this speaks for itself. Literature is not in the media that many people read. While newspapers may cover excellent new novels, many people do not read these sections of the newspaper. The Da Vinci Code was EVERYWHERE and as such people picked it up. Literature just isn't publisised in the same ways.

Now, if someone is not aware that something is there, or has not learnt to value it, does that make them 'lazy' for not finding it or appreciating it?

 

[abecedarian]

Not to brag or anything, but since this thread IS about reading literature for pleasure, I thought you all might like to know what my 16 year old dd is reading for fun this month.
She walked into my room this morning as my oldest dd and I were discussing another book (Celtic Christianity) and told me she had just finished A Christmas Carol and loved it. She then said that she'd decided to spend November reading Dickens.
We are at the library at this moment, and her stack is just a few inches away, so I can tell you she's already picked:
Oliver Twist
Great Expectations
David Copperfield
The Old Curiosity Shop

And Silly me was worried about her lack of "literature" in her reading "diet"! I would have hesitated to "assign" such a load, but since she's chosen the books, they will seem more like dessert than medicine.

we need an emoticon that does a happy dance...

 

[Kookamoor]

Not to brag or anything...

Brag away! I think that is *wonderful* that your daughter is choosing, let alone reading such great literary works.

 

[abecedarian]

Brag away! I think that is *wonderful* that your daughter is choosing, let alone reading such great literary works.

What's funny about THIS dd and her reading, at first glance one might think she's a ditz..sweet, but definately a ditz!

 

[ions]

She then said that she'd decided to spend November reading Dickens.
We are at the library at this moment, and her stack is just a few inches away, so I can tell you she's already picked:
Oliver Twist
Great Expectations
David Copperfield
The Old Curiosity Shop

She's gonna do all that in November is she? Does she provide speed reading lessons as well? Awesome that she's interested but you may want to rein her in a bit. Be concious of the fact that Dickens may not be appropriate to a 16 year old. Does she really have the capacity to see what Dickens is all about? Does she know the impact of the industrial revolution? The labour issues? Poverty? Etcetera. Will David Copperfield be just a long story about an orphan who lives with his aunt? At the end of reading a book the last thing, I think, a teen should say is "what the hell was that about?!" Reading is a building process, you don't start with the most advanced material. Like Kook said, sometimes we need to age and experience more before we can properly appreciate some books. If my reading experience has taught me just one thing that would be it.

The impact that poor parenting and worse schooling has on people is immense. And unfortunately the myriad of bad habits taught are very hard to undo. One facet of the problem is some books are overly dissected, again like Kookamoor said. Another facet is many teens do not have the capacity to properly appreciate such things. Again, the life experience and having read enough to understand that next novel. Reading is a building process. This is not directed at anyone here obviously because I am going to assume that the parents that are here are going to be more competent about teaching their kids the joys of reading good books. Like abecedarian.

I agree with you kookamoor that exposure is important and it's a grey area of ignorance. If you're completely unaware then you couldn't be directly labelled lazy. Myself I hate being ignorant, and I am ignorant of many things, so when there is something I find I do not know about I try and rectify it by at least investigating a little. Regardless, I'm inclined to believe that regular readers of genre fiction are more likely to be aware of literature. Not always, but it's more likely. My intention of this thread was to direct it to regular readers that do not read literature.

Philistine media, peers, schools, parents are not going to produce fans of Literature. It sucks. My first suggestion is to kill all the pop stars. I also try and recommend good books to those around me as much as I can. Some read what I recommend, some do not.

 

[Kookamoor]

Like Kook said, sometimes we need to age and experience more before we can properly appreciate some books. If my reading experience has taught me just one thing that would be it.

Okay, so here is a question for those of you who enjoy literature and think that others should also:

What path did you take to learn to appreciate literature? Was there a pivotal book? At what point did you 'realise' that there was a difference between literature and other fiction? When did you begin to really enjoy it?

Are most 16 year olds capable of appreciating literature, or does the school system expect too much of them? Would there be better ways to teach kids to appreciate reading and put them on the path to great literature (assuming that the parents have no role in teaching kids to appreciate literature)?

 

[abecedarian]

She's gonna do all that in November is she? Does she provide speed reading lessons as well? Awesome that she's interested but you may want to rein her in a bit. Be concious of the fact that Dickens may not be appropriate to a 16 year old. Does she really have the capacity to see what Dickens is all about? Does she know the impact of the industrial revolution? The labour issues? Poverty? Etcetera. Will David Copperfield be just a long story about an orphan who lives with his aunt? At the end of reading a book the last thing, I think, a teen should say is "what the hell was that about?!" Reading is a building process, you don't start with the most advanced material. Like Kook said, sometimes we need to age and experience more before we can properly appreciate some books. If my reading experience has taught me just one thing that would be it.

The impact that poor parenting and worse schooling has on people is immense. And unfortunately the myriad of bad habits taught are very hard to undo. One facet of the problem is some books are overly dissected, again like Kookamoor said. Another facet is many teens do not have the capacity to properly appreciate such things. Again, the life experience and having read enough to understand that next novel. Reading is a building process. This is not directed at anyone here obviously because I am going to assume that the parents that are here are going to be more competent about teaching their kids the joys of reading good books. Like abecedarian.

I agree with you kookamoor that exposure is important and it's a grey area of ignorance. If you're completely unaware then you couldn't be directly labelled lazy. Myself I hate being ignorant, and I am ignorant of many things, so when there is something I find I do not know about I try and rectify it by at least investigating a little. Regardless, I'm inclined to believe that regular readers of genre fiction are more likely to be aware of literature. Not always, but it's more likely. My intention of this thread was to direct it to regular readers that do not read literature.

Philistine media, peers, schools, parents are not going to produce fans of Literature. It sucks. My first suggestion is to kill all the pop stars. I also try and recommend good books to those around me as much as I can. Some read what I recommend, some do not.

I don't know if she'll get them all read, but you have brought up a concern I had when she told me of the project. I think it would be good for me to have her do a little background search on the Industrial Revolution. Even World Book would get her started. I also plan to have my oldest dd talk to her about the historical significance(she's a history major and has read more Dickens than me). We're pretty good at talking about what we're reading in a family setting, so it won't be like she's strictly on her own. I may decide to read a few of her library books myself, just so I can keep up! Good thing I LIKE to read..

 

[ions]

Okay, so here is a question for those of you who enjoy literature and think that others should also:

What path did you take to learn to appreciate literature? Was there a pivotal book? At what point did you 'realise' that there was a difference between literature and other fiction? When did you begin to really enjoy it?

My father had something to do with it. He certainly planted the seed. He read Jack London to me as a child. Beyond that I was on my own. While my HS did cover some literature, mostly Canadian beyond Shakespeare, and I did enjoy most of it I was not yet an avid literature reader. For some reason and I can't recall why or where but I had the idea the Tolstoy had written the greatest novel ever and at some point in my life I had to read it. I think a good goal in life is to try and experience the greatest things man has ever achieved. I also felt that Dickens and Dostoevsky were great. Dickens was in my head because of A Christmas Carol which has been my favourite movie for a long time. No idea where I initially heard about Dostoevsky. Having read none from the Russians and very little from Dickens I was just a philistine who could list a couple authors. Last year, around this time in fact, there was a biography on Tolstoy on the Biography channel. Dude was damn fascinating. That nugget that had been dormant in my head about him writing the greatest novel ever written came to life. I asked for several classics for Christmas by Dostoevsky and Tolstoy. I received the gifts and read them. In the last year I've read a lot. I've grown more in the last year as a reader than I have in every other year combined.

It was during this year, and really quite recently that I saw the difference between genre fiction and literature. The epiphany hit, the light went on, the sun rose and more cliches occured. I began to appreciate great novels at deeper levels and see how vacuous some novelists are. I still consider myself poorly read and I have miles to go before I sleep but I recognize it and have been enjoying changing that.

Are most 16 year olds capable of appreciating literature, or does the school system expect too much of them? Would there be better ways to teach kids to appreciate reading and put them on the path to great literature (assuming that the parents have no role in teaching kids to appreciate literature)?

I'm not particularly interested in children and schooling to be honest, I consider children to be idiots partly due to their poor education, so my answer here will be short. I think children's educations are half-assed and castrated. They're churning em out just smart enough to enter the workforce but too dumb to do any actual thinking. So my answer to whether a 16 year old is capable of appreciating literature is yes and no. They may have been capable until they were crippled by a poor education. Would there be better ways? Yes. There must be. Many. If somehow I am convinced to have children I will make great efforts to make sure their education is thorough. I do believe there are threads dedicated to this specifically aren't there?

 

[ions]

I don't know if she'll get them all read, but you have brought up a concern I had when she told me of the project. I think it would be good for me to have her do a little background search on the Industrial Revolution. Even World Book would get her started. I also plan to have my oldest dd talk to her about the historical significance(she's a history major and has read more Dickens than me). We're pretty good at talking about what we're reading in a family setting, so it won't be like she's strictly on her own. I may decide to read a few of her library books myself, just so I can keep up! Good thing I LIKE to read..

Instead of editing my own post to mention something I forgot this is a good segue into what I missed. I still have not read the novel that for some reason I believe is the best ever written: War and Peace. I want to be prepared for it. Why read it if I'm not ready? I feel I'm getting closer and I will probably consider it an achievement when I feel ready to appreciate it at a acceptable level. I want to be able to appreciate it's greatness. I want to read Death of Ican Ilych and Resurrection before I do and probably a few others that are considered greatest ever.

 

[Kookamoor]

It was during this year, and really quite recently that I saw the difference between genre fiction and literature. The epiphany hit, the light went on, the sun rose and more cliches occured. I began to appreciate great novels at deeper levels and see how vacuous some novelists are. I still consider myself poorly read and I have miles to go before I sleep but I recognize it and have been enjoying changing that.

That's really interesting. I'd really like to hear other people's channels of thought on this one too. Perhaps if we can narrow down how people came to enjoy literature then we can work out why they read it for pleasure.

I am still not a mature enough reader to tackle some serious literature. Part of this is to do with the amount of time I can spend on my reading at the moment while I'm still a full time graduate student. I don't feel ready to make the committment to sit down with a 'heavy' (heavy in terms of it's complexity and themes) novel and really try to understand it. But I'm working towards it, as there is something about literature that... well, it's hard to put my finger on it because at this stage I don't really know how to define it. I can tell which books I think are literature, but I can't tell you expressly *why*. Like you, ions, I don't want to read a book that I am not ready for, and I don't want to sell my foray into literature short because I do not have the time I feel I need to devote to it. I read my first Dickens last year - David Copperfield - and I just adored it. It made sense to me on a deeper level, and I had a wonderful conversation with my mother about the role of women in the book, and in Dickens' other works. It reminded me of when I first read 'The Cider House Rules' by John Irving, and understood the deeper themes without someone pointing them out for me. I wanted to talk about that book with everyone, but no one else seemed interested (Where was TBF?!?).

I tried Jane Austen earlier this year, and while I struggled to get through Pride and Prejudice it made me want to read more about the times in which Austen wrote, in order to understand the characters more. I didn't want to dumb it down and just rent the movie in order to understand the story, I wanted to understand the *writing*. I think that's a crucial step.

So my interest in literature is growing, and I want to be able to appreciate and understand it more. I still read genre fiction and I can't imagine not enjoying a rollicking good fantasy, but I also think there is room for both. I'm looking forward to tackling The Three Muskateers when I return to Australia in the new year. I can see it's mottled yellow cover on my bookshelf already. It's near Tess of the Durbervilles, which I also really want to read. In more modern literature, I'm also going to find some more Tim Winton, which thrills me to bits just thinking about it!

I'm not particularly interested in children and schooling to be honest, ... I do believe there are threads dedicated to this specifically aren't there?

Fair call - I think this is something important to consider in regard to the original question about it possibly being laziness, but I think we can move on from that now.

 

[Stewart]

Comparing "beers from around the world" with budweiser, miller, becks, and especially "etc" is a generalization. Perhaps your preference of Zywiec is due to limited tasting of some excellent beers made in the U.S.

Well, where else but "around the world" do Budweiser, Miller, and Becks come from? Ah, with the exception of Becks, I mentioned US beers; sorry, did I forget Bud Lite?

 

[abecedarian]

Well, where else but "around the world" do Budweiser, Miller, and Becks come from? Ah, with the exception of Becks, I mentioned US beers; sorry, did I forget Bud Lite?

Um, Stewart? Maybe it would be best to forget Bud Lite And Pabts Blue Ribbion and...

 

[ions]

Forgive me Kook, I'm going to split your quote up a bit and leave some parts out as I reply. Hopefully I don't change your meaning with my editing. I'm just doing it for easing my own reply.

That's really interesting. I'd really like to hear other people's channels of thought on this one too. Perhaps if we can narrow down how people came to enjoy literature then we can work out why they read it for pleasure.

I am still not a mature enough reader to tackle some serious literature. Part of this is to do with the amount of time I can spend on my reading at the moment while I'm still a full time graduate student. I don't feel ready to make the committment to sit down with a 'heavy' (heavy in terms of it's complexity and themes) novel and really try to understand it. But I'm working towards it, as there is something about literature that... well, it's hard to put my finger on it because at this stage I don't really know how to define it. I can tell which books I think are literature, but I can't tell you expressly *why*.

I can't say precisely why I enjoy literature more right now. Put simply I get it now and it's better. People like Stewart and Shade are better at identifying the components that make literature better. I neither have the education or reading experience to make these comments. I took two Literature courses in University and they were to satisfy a curriculum breadth requirement. I degree in English sure sounds like a lot of fun at this point in life. This is the reason I try and be cautious about my reviews in the "Just Finished Reading" thread. I don't have the capacity yet to write a review that does justice to the work. Stewart's Blog is a good example of intelligent reviews. I've grown enough as a reader to make better decisions but I'm not bright enough to justify them well yet I suppose.

I read my first Dickens last year - David Copperfield - and I just adored it. It made sense to me on a deeper level, and I had a wonderful conversation with my mother about the role of women in the book, and in Dickens' other works.

Didn't Copperfield just rock?! I read that this past summer. Great book. Why? I dunno, see above. I am working on building my ability to review and describe what makes a book good to me. I have a text called Literature by Jacobus that was part of the syllabus from one of the previously mentioned literature courses. Umberto Eco has published a book called On Literature which is a collection of essays on...literature that I would love to get my hands on. Hoping it'll arrive as a gift later this year. There's also a book by Atwood about understanding literature that I can't be bothered to search for at the moment. Tough to take the time out of reading literature to read a book about reading literature but hopefully it will be worthwhile.

I tried Jane Austen earlier this year, and while I struggled to get through Pride and Prejudice it made me want to read more about the times in which Austen wrote, in order to understand the characters more. I didn't want to dumb it down and just rent the movie in order to understand the story, I wanted to understand the *writing*. I think that's a crucial step.

I completely agree. There are only two books I've failed to finish. The first being Moby Dick. I tried when I was fifteen. I found it very boring. But it's quite possible that the book actually is boring. At fifteen I was at least bright enough to understand that either explanation was possible and it was more likely that I didn't have the capacity than Melville's novel being a bore. Unfortunately many kids read books, don't have the capacity to undertand them, label the books as bores and continue to make sweeping generalizations about other books. The other book I failed to finish was a Fantasy book by Kay. I felt comfortable enough in my reading ability at that point to decide the book wasn't for me. Hard to answer the question honestly of when you're ready or not for a novel but you don't do yourself any favours by lying to yourself.

So my interest in literature is growing, and I want to be able to appreciate and understand it more. I still read genre fiction and I can't imagine not enjoying a rollicking good fantasy, but I also think there is room for both.

I thought there was room for both too. Unfortunately it doesn't look that way for me any longer. See post #34 specifically. And this makes me sad. I do feel as though my growth has cost me reading something I may have enjoyed without the growth. I've made my peace with that knowing that for every book that I outgrow there are several to replace them.

Link to information about Jacobus' Literature

 

[Kookamoor]

Forgive me Kook, I'm going to split your quote up a bit and leave some parts out as I reply. Hopefully I don't change your meaning with my editing. I'm just doing it for easing my own reply.

No worries - came out fine to me!

I thought there was room for both too. Unfortunately it doesn't look that way for me any longer.

I hope this doesn't happen to me. I want to mature as a reader, but still appreciate some fun, plot-driven stories.

I look at some of novella's reading choices and see great diversity there in what she reads - she recommended 'A Girls Guide to Hunting and Fishing', which I would certainly not classify as literary. A fun read, though! I value her opinions highly because of this diversity. Members here who read exclusively literary works, and comment disparagingly of other fiction, I have less time for. Although they may be more learned, their inability to understanding the choices and selections of less mature readers (I like this term!) puts my teeth on edge at times, and I have trouble respecting some of their opinions. Although, when they say that a book is excellent, I usually do sit up and take notice.

 

[ions]

No worries - came out fine to me!


I hope this doesn't happen to me. I want to mature as a reader, but still appreciate some fun, plot-driven stories.

Maybe it won't. Could just be my experience.

I look at some of novella's reading choices and see great diversity there in what she reads - she recommended 'A Girls Guide to Hunting and Fishing', which I would certainly not classify as literary. A fun read, though! I value her opinions highly because of this diversity. Members here who read exclusively literary works, and comment disparagingly of other fiction, I have less time for. Although they may be more learned, their inability to understanding the choices and selections of less mature readers (I like this term!) puts my teeth on edge at times, and I have trouble respecting some of their opinions. Although, when they say that a book is excellent, I usually do sit up and take notice.

So these members you speak of know when a book is good yet don't when it is bad? It's understandable that their disparaging comments would put your teeth on edge. I've experienced that here but I see the other side of this a little better now. Often someone will come in and say how great The DaVinci Code is. Truth is it's not. Just about everything that can be bad about a book is bad in this book. One can get drunk and happy feeling on cheap wine but once you have a fine Merlot the cheap stuff tastes like Welch's with gasoline. Frustrating when people parade crap as good and then attempt to defend it.

 

[Kookamoor]

So these members you speak of know when a book is good yet don't when it is bad?

It's more a lack of understanding that some people do not want to get anything more out of a book than a story. Some people are not interested in the greater complexity or underlying themes of a book. They just want a good story. Some members seem to forget that and assume that the person who enjoyed the 'bad' book is ignorent (or lazy ). I just find that a very intolerant stance, and ignorent in itself.

Personally, I haven't read anything from Dan Brown. I read the first few pages of Angels and Demons at a friend's place, but it really didn't grab me. I've heard it's poorly structured and factually lacking. But all that aside I guess it's a great story to many people who've really enjoyed it. If they want to talk about how great it is, then I think it's at least a first step towards maturing as readers that they even want to discuss books.

 

[ions]

Thus the creation of this thread. And who started that thread?

 

[Kookamoor]

And who started that thread?

Ah, yes. I guess I've made that point before, then .

So, let's hear some other stories of how people discovered pleasure in literature, or why they haven't, or how mature they feel as readers!

 

[Jemima Aslana]

Ehhhh mature? Heehee...

I read both classic lit and trivia lit (both are in fact literature) I enjoy teh classic s a lot because they actually keep my brain in shape (as if I didn't get enough of that at uni) and I enjoy employing some thinking in order to understand a book. However sometimes I am also just in the mood for reading somethign were I can shut down my brain and take a break with a book - this is my equivalent to watching tv which I never do. Turn off brain and spend some hours staring lazily at the screen works better for me when it's a book I'm turning my brain off to

How I discovered the heavy stuff... I don't actually know. I read Watership Down a long time ago... I was rather young when my mum gave me that book, so I think that one was my first brush with a book that had more meaning to it than just a good story. I don't think I discovered anything realy, I just read stuff and have concluded that sometimes I'm in the mood for one thing and soemtimes for the other. I come from a home where Dumas, Balzac, Dickens and Austen are on the shelves with several representations, so it was mostly a gradual introduction for me, when I was old enough I started reading the stuff...no big revelation to it.

 

[Billy]

That's really interesting. I'd really like to hear other people's channels of thought on this one too. Perhaps if we can narrow down how people came to enjoy literature then we can work out why they read it for pleasure.

I had to read Jane Austen for high school. I loved Pride and Prejudice, but found it hard to get through Emma. I also had to read Sons and Lovers by D. H. Lawrence and wasn't too impressed at all. At the time I was about 16 and objected to having to think about how many times an author used a specific colour and what that colour might mean. I didn't have enough life experience or reading experience to understand what was and wasn't well written.

At uni I had to read Dickens. I liked most of the ones I read, but just couldn't finish Bleak House. The descriptions in the first few pages of the fog was just too much for me. I also had to read Conrad's Heart of Darkness. It was short, so didn't take long, but once again, I got bogged down a bit in the descriptiveness of the writing. I felt it was a waste of words. I didn't need that much information on what the harbour was like or how the sun was setting.

I decided to read War and Peace about 9 years ago. It took me about six months to finish it because I found I had to 'think' so much while I was reading, but that thinking didn't turn me away, in fact it made me want to read more of the classics. I wanted to read the novels that were considered classic literature so that I could judge for myself whether or not they were better than the other books I read.

About 8 years ago I finally decided to give Jane Austen another go. All my friends raved about her and couldn't understand why I didn't appreciate her. I started with Northanger Abbey and loved it, so continued on to read the rest of them.

I think that in order for me to actually appreciate good literature, I had to want to appreciate it. I had to want to see more than the story and as a 16 year old kid, I guess I wasn't ready to look any deeper into a book then the plot.

I am still not a mature enough reader to tackle some serious literature. Part of this is to do with the amount of time I can spend on my reading at the moment while I'm still a full time graduate student. I don't feel ready to make the committment to sit down with a 'heavy' (heavy in terms of it's complexity and themes) novel and really try to understand it. But I'm working towards it, as there is something about literature that... well, it's hard to put my finger on it because at this stage I don't really know how to define it. I can tell which books I think are literature, but I can't tell you expressly *why*. Like you, ions, I don't want to read a book that I am not ready for, and I don't want to sell my foray into literature short because I do not have the time I feel I need to devote to it. I read my first Dickens last year - David Copperfield - and I just adored it. It made sense to me on a deeper level, and I had a wonderful conversation with my mother about the role of women in the book, and in Dickens' other works. It reminded me of when I first read 'The Cider House Rules' by John Irving, and understood the deeper themes without someone pointing them out for me. I wanted to talk about that book with everyone, but no one else seemed interested (Where was TBF?!?).

You see, when I read literature, I read it like I read any other book, ie. I read it for enjoyment, so I don't actually study it unless I have to teach it. I don't really enjoy studying books (unless it is something like Waiting for Godot, which isn't a novel anyway). I like to just read them and take what I get from them. I know this will never give me the deeper kind of meaning I would have gained if I actually studied the book, but I associate study with work and I don't want to feel like I'm working when I'm reading a book for pleasure.

I tried Jane Austen earlier this year, and while I struggled to get through Pride and Prejudice it made me want to read more about the times in which Austen wrote, in order to understand the characters more. I didn't want to dumb it down and just rent the movie in order to understand the story, I wanted to understand the *writing*. I think that's a crucial step.

I alreadymentioned Jane Austen, but it took me a long time to really be able to appreciate her. Now that I have learned how (and this involved me understanding things such as irony), I love her.

So my interest in literature is growing, and I want to be able to appreciate and understand it more. I still read genre fiction and I can't imagine not enjoying a rollicking good fantasy, but I also think there is room for both. I'm looking forward to tackling The Three Muskateers when I return to Australia in the new year. I can see it's mottled yellow cover on my bookshelf already. It's near Tess of the Durbervilles, which I also really want to read. In more modern literature, I'm also going to find some more Tim Winton, which thrills me to bits just thinking about it!

I haven't read Tess of the Durbervilles. I started to while at uni, but just couldn't get into it. It's one I do want to go back to and see if, now that I am older and have learned a lot, my initial opinion of it has changed.

As for Tim Winton, have you read Cloud Street? I went to see it at the Wharf and had no idea what was really going on, so this led me to the book. It was great!

Like you, I can't imagine not liking genre fiction. Fantasy and romance are the two fiction genres I use to escape, to just read without having to really think about what I'm reading, just follow the story of a few characters rather than have to think about deeper themes and style and the particular use of language, etc.

So to conclude, I think that to really appreciate literature, one needs to want to appreciate it. I have found that once you start reading good literature and get used to it, it is not really such a hard slog. It's more of a pleasant stroll.