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Someone tell me this.

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bobbyburns

New Member
I don't say this enough, but, I love you...
Ya Krunk'd Floo said:
I am inclined to recall Chaucer from Book 2 of Troilus and Criseyd:

"Ye knowe eek, that in forme of speche is chaunge
With-inne a thousand yeer, and wordes tho
That hadden prys, now wonder nyce and straunge
Us thinketh hem; and yet they spake hem so,
And spedde as wel in love as men now do;
Eek for to winne love in sondry ages,
In sondry londes, sondry been usages."

So, let's see...Language changes; accept it. Forums change; accept it.
 

Robert

Active Member
Stewart said:
Certainly, but people also need to learn how to use a forum and the proper (n)etiquette expected when engaging within an online community. I may appear a grump (at times) and this is the reason: I spend more of my online time on technical forums where we don't mind being abrupt with people as ignorance is not tolerated. If you post a question without searching then you will be told to use the search - rather than repeat ourselves - and if you ask a simple question you will, no doubt, be told to RTFM or STFW.

You’re not one that should talk about etiquette, Stewart. Grump is an understatement.

Then comes those who can't string a sentence together. These people need to be taught that they are on a book discussion forum. You don't read books written in a bizarre mix of numbers and characters so we shouldn't have to expect them here. If you truly want to gain a little respect then drop the numbers and learn to use proper English. Also, one exclamation mark - to suffix an exclamation - is also aall that is necessary.

Not everybody is going to be a skilled writer, Stewart. Some are young and haven’t developed their writing skills. Instead of lambasting them for their lack of skill, encourage them. One has to stand before they can walk, Stewart. All you’re doing when you do that is creating a hostile environment, inhibiting people from getting involved in the discussion.

And by the way, who put you in charge of deciding if a person’s ignorance, if it is indeed ignorance, should be tolerated? You’re just another user, get over yourself.

Also, this is a book forum, not a writing class. If you don’t like the way people express themselves, then too bad. It’s not you’re place to get on their case about it.

Stewart said:
If you post a question without searching then you will be told to use the search - rather than repeat ourselves - and if you ask a simple question you will, no doubt, be told to RTFM or STFW.

It’s not unusual to get a large number of threads to a given search. As some of us have a life outside the board, then being directed to a thread with the answer is always welcome. The problem is how new members are treated when they ask questions. My advise to you, Stewart, is that if you don’t like the fact that a questions has already been asked & answered, the ignore it. I would remind you that it isn’t your job to put someone in their place because they ask a question that was addressed once before.


Stewart said:
Next up, discussion. If you want to talk about books then please discuss them. If you think Stephen King is great then please, by all means, show us what you mean. Give examples of why he gained your respect and don't argue back by calling someone elitist. Engage in the conversation and be civil. If you don't like someone then don't call them names: grow up! It's a book discussion forum and if the sum of your critical ability is to say a book "is great" or "it sucks" then anyone that bases their choices of reading material on that is an idiot. However, if you can say "it's great because" or "it sucks because" then someone can go away and make a more informed decision on their next read and from there on in it's caveat emptor.

Let me clue you in on something, Stewart. Discussions start from the general and move to the specific. When I started posting in a book thread, I proceeded with caution because I didn’t know where the line was between what should and should not be discussed. How does one discuss a book without spoiling the plot for the next reader? The dirty shame is that I never got that far because of the members who insisted on post derogatory remarks about the book, the author, or anybody that reads them. Not constructive comments mind you, but things to the affect that they suck.
 

Stewart

Active Member
I actually disagree. I've been enjoying the conversations of late, a lot more interesting with Shade and jay around. Admittedly, jay can be a bit of a pain at times but it's how you deal with it that matters.

I wouldn't mind seeing some old faces back. One I recall was third man girl in early 2004. I'd like to see Litany and Freya back too but they won't come. I haven't seen RaVeN since he threatened me via PM.
 

Kenny Shovel

Active Member
Robert said:
I applaud you effort, Martin, it’s not easy to get your arms around a problem with multiple roots. If the old TBF culture fostered more book discussions and respect between members, then I’m all for it. I believe courtesy and respect are cultural norms that can be maintained, even with the growth being experienced on this board.
Oh my God, I'm finding myself in agreement with Robert again. Which one of us should be most distrurbed by this?
 

Stewart

Active Member
Robert said:
Not everybody is going to be a skilled writer, Stewart.
Nobody is asking them to be. All they need to do is string a sentence together in order to be understood.

Some are young and haven’t developed their writing skills. Instead of lambasting them for their lack of skill, encourage them.

Ah, but if I encourage them then someone here is going to take offence and call me a "grammar Nazi" which is downright incorrect. Am I supposed to encourage by saying come on! come one! you can spell potato! or, as is my preference, say it's potato, not potatoe which, being abrupt, is more likely to stick in the mind.

And by the way, who put you in charge of deciding if a person’s ignorance, if it is indeed ignorance, should be tolerated? You’re just another user, get over yourself.

There's no committe. I decide for myself who I believe to be ignorant. It's a siubjective list but one I'm happy to work with.

this is a book forum, not a writing class.

That's why I don't make threads about understanding the clerihew, or 101 uses for a comma.

If you don’t like the way people express themselves, then too bad. It’s not you’re place to get on their case about it.

They are hardly expressing themselves. Be bold and have an opinion. I don't understand people who may say "sorry if this offends but" - if it offends it offends. And then the worst defence of all: i'm new here.

It’s not unusual to get a large number of threads to a given search. As some of us have a life outside the board, then being directed to a thread with the answer is always welcome.

Which is my point about accurately titled threads. It will reduce results and ensure a smaller pot of more detailed and relevant results.

The problem is how new members are treated when they ask questions.

My advise to you, Stewart,

Okay, time to "encourage" you. It's advice, not advise. One is a noun and the other is a verb.

My advise (sic) to you, Stewart is that if you don’t like the fact that a questions has already been asked & answered, the ignore it.

No. Let them learn how to use a forum.

I would remind you that it isn’t your job to put someone in their place because they ask a question that was addressed once before.
I don't put them in their place. If you've read my replies you'll see I either post a link to a previous discussion, otherwise I'll either or say it's been discussed before or allude to previous conversations, mentioning the search function. If you don't mention the search function then they'll keep repeating themselves. Once they know it's there, you've encouraged them to becoming a better "housekeeper".

When I started posting in a book thread, I proceeded with caution because I didn’t know where the line was between what should and should not be discussed.

Well, thats more your fault for not sampling the posts and the mood of the forum before signing up and taking part.

How does one discuss a book without spoiling the plot for the next reader?

Again, the forum has an FAQ which would make an ideal read when thinking about signing up for the forum. The spoiler feature is detailed there.

The dirty shame is that I never got that far because of the members who insisted on post derogatory remarks about the book, the author, or anybody that reads them.

If it was The Da Vinci Code then I don't blame them. If it was Harry Potter and you're an adult I don't blame them. As I've said, I think jay is overreactive to certain things, but it's how you deal with these responses.

Not constructive comments mind you, but things to the affect that they suck.

Sometimes things just do and it's not up for discussion. :D
 

Robert

Active Member
I believe you mean well, Stwart. But I have to tell you that you're the proverbial bull in the china shop.
 

Robert

Active Member
Kenny Shovel said:
Oh my God, I'm finding myself in agreement with Robert again. Which one of us should be most distrurbed by this?


Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love you too, Kenny.
 

Stewart

Active Member
Robert said:
I believe you mean well, Stwart. But I have to tell you that you're the proverbial bull in the china shop.

I do mean well and the amazing thing is this is the only forum - out of the many I visit - where I get this sort of reaction. It truly is incredible.
 

Kenny Shovel

Active Member
Robert said:
Not everybody is going to be a skilled writer, Stewart. Some are young and haven’t developed their writing skills. Instead of lambasting them for their lack of skill, encourage them. One has to stand before they can walk, Stewart. All you’re doing when you do that is creating a hostile environment, inhibiting people from getting involved in the discussion.
Completly agree.
Robert said:
And by the way, who put you in charge of deciding if a person’s ignorance, if it is indeed ignorance, should be tolerated? You’re just another user, get over yourself.

Also, this is a book forum, not a writing class. If you don’t like the way people express themselves, then too bad. It’s not you’re place to get on their case about it.
Yup, it sounds at times like Stewart is the one who wants to be a mod.
Robert said:
The problem is how new members are treated when they ask questions. My advise to you, Stewart, is that if you don’t like the fact that a questions has already been asked & answered, the ignore it. I would remind you that it isn’t your job to put someone in their place because they ask a question that was addressed once before.
Yup, agree again.

All this agreeing with Robert is scaring the living crap outta me. I am going to end up with a poster of Donald Rumsfeld on my wall and a worrying attraction to Dick Cheneys 'dreamy eyes'?

It's no good, I'm going back to watch the cricket....
 

lies

New Member
Robert said:
It’s not unusual to get a large number of threads to a given search.
That's not true if you put some thought into your query. The advanced search is pretty specific.
 

ruby

New Member
Erica said:
Hi Ruby,
There are some really lovely members on here, and in the last few months (I think) one or two bullies who jump in every thread attack you, and spoil thread turning it into a war zone. :(
But I don't feel its just because your new...
I don't post much, as one I'm working etc, and another I feel so wound up after reading some posts now...
I used to really love this Forum, hope it gets back to how it used to be.
Stick with it Girl, I'm sure it will be sorted.
Now I'm off to enjoy my day off in the Sun, with my new book
:)
Thankyou erica i will be sticking with it only because of the lovely members who make you feel welcome! And i hope things get sorted out soon! :)
 

hay82

Active Member
Kenny Shovel said:
Yup, it sounds at times like Stewart is the one who wants to be a mod.
Probably wouldn't be a bad idea for him to be a mod. If he wanted to be, they could bring him in as an extra.
 

novella

Active Member
In my view the level of discussion about books has generally improved over the past couple of months. There's definitely more in-depth conversation, more comparative discussion, and more postings on books. The spam as was in the 'good old days' was about biscuits and pirates; now it's about asses and other icky stuff. I don't look at that, so it only bothers me when it appears in a decent on-topic thread.

However, I strongly feel that newcomers should be welcomed heartily and gentled in the right direction--NOT directed to loads of old threads or pounded on for not searching. They want to talk to live people, not do research. Often newcomers are not all that familiar with forums or online practices, but they have valuable contributions to make here anyway. I saw at least two newbs this week immediately get told to go look things up. That's shameful. Don't answer those threads if you don't know how to be warm and sensitive.

When I first came to this board, the level of discussion about books was very cursory and resistant to deeper criticism. And there just weren't that many people talking about books. I think it's much more informative and lively now, with many more engaged readers participating.

So, yeah, maybe the culture and character of the board has changed, and maybe some people miss the biscuit banter and games threads, but there's a lot of good stuff now too. My biggest dissatisfaction is in the treatment of new posters, something easily remedied by a few nice established members doing a few more nice things.
 

Zolipara

New Member
Robert said:
Not everybody is going to be a skilled writer, Stewart. Some are young and haven?t developed their writing skills.

He is just asking for people to follow the etiquette common to most forums on the web. Simple things like using the search function before posting does not require much from the user. Sometimes its enough just to look at the first page of the specific forum you wish to post in. When there is already 3 threads on Dan Brown its not really needed to open a 4th.
 

Martin

Active Member
I never said there's less discussion about books. In fact, I tend to agree that the bookrelated section of the site is doing quite well. Again, it's the overall atmosphere, and that includes the shallowness, the tension, and the rudeness to newbies. And much much more I just can't put my finger on.
 

Robert

Active Member
lies said:
That's not true if you put some thought into your query. The advanced search is pretty specific.

Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. Trust me on this, I use the search function a lot.
 

lies

New Member
novella said:
However, I strongly feel that newcomers should be welcomed heartily and gentled in the right direction--NOT directed to loads of old threads or pounded on for not searching. They want to talk to live people, not do research. Often newcomers are not all that familiar with forums or online practices, but they have valuable contributions to make here anyway. I saw at least two newbs this week immediately get told to go look things up. That's shameful. Don't answer those threads if you don't know how to be warm and sensitive.
Is it rude though to provide a user with links to threads that might have some useful information for them? I'd love to be welcomed like that, instead of having my thread be empty and my question unanswered. And I personally haven't seen anyone being rude to a newbie yet... Only if they start talking shit themselves first. (And even than, it's all still pretty civil.)
 
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