The Ice Man

[Peder]

Just to be on the divergent side of the discussion again, I can't help reporting that I stopped by my favorite book-store yesterday and happened to glance at one of their New Arrivals. The Ice Man. The excerpt on the back cover staggered even me, generally quite liberal in such matters as I am. IMO it conveys such an unredeeming and irredeemably ugly, horrible thought that I refuse to even present it here for information purposes. In its own way I think it is as unredeeming as pornography and quite possibly worse.
But if you happen to be near a bookstore and want to calibrate your dials as to what should be freely available for people of tender years to read, then you might take a look at the back cover of The Ice Man. It may not change your mind about anything, least of all freedom of the press or freedom of expression, but I think it may make you gulp a little at what is freely available in print these days. It might also lend a little greater sympathy to why parents express their concerns.
Peder
Not Easily Horrified

 

[abecedarian]

Just to be on the divergent side of the discussion again, I can't help reporting that I stopped by my favorite book-store yesterday and happened to glance at one of their New Arrivals. The Ice Man. The excerpt on the back cover staggered even me, generally quite liberal in such matters as I am. IMO it conveys such an unredeeming and irredeemably ugly, horrible thought that I refuse to even present it here for information purposes. In its own way I think it is as unredeeming as pornography and quite possibly worse.
But if you happen to be near a bookstore and want to calibrate your dials as to what should be freely available for people of tender years to read, then you might take a look at the back cover of The Ice Man. It may not change your mind about anything, least of all freedom of the press or freedom of expression, but I think it may make you gulp a little at what is freely available in print these days. It might also lend a little greater sympathy to why parents express their concerns.
Peder
Not Easily Horrified

You're right Peder, this is an example of the sort of material that I would not want my children exposed to until they were older. I'm not saying it has to be banned, but I think it should not be used in a school setting without alerting parents of the kids, and inviting them to sit in on discussions of this material. Of course, not all parents would be able to attend, but even if the teachers sent out a synopsis of the book and a copy of discussion questions, the parents could A. Have a clue to the class content and B. Be able to discuss the book in a rational, rather than hysterical manner.

 

[curiouswonder]

Of course, not all parents would be able to attend, but even if the teachers sent out a synopsis of the book and a copy of discussion questions, the parents could A. Have a clue to the class content and B. Be able to discuss the book in a rational, rather than hysterical manner.

If A and B came to pass (clues and rationality), most of the American media and a good deal of the government would be unemployed. Do you really want Greta "corpses in the streets" Van Sunasydgfdbfb;d to be forced to work at McD's?
Half-cocked and hysterical is what made this country what it is today.
Maybe if parents were required to actually read the book before they called for a ban rather than working from a list provided to them. Who knows? They might learn something.

 

[Zolipara]

I doubt very much that this book is used in school.

 

[Peder]

the parents could A. Have a clue to the class content and B. Be able to discuss the book in a rational, rather than hysterical manner.

ABC,
I am especially partial to your second point above, in addition to agreeing entirely with your viewpoint overall. Well said!
After coming home and checking the reviews of The Ice Man on amazon, I am somewhat surprised at the relatively relaxed manner in which the book is received. In particular, I am astonished that the subject of the book could be described by a reviwer as a "professional assassin and a devoted family man." Professional (and sadistic) assassin, certainly, but devoted family man? Not the kind of person I think of as a devoted family man, after reading that back cover. No way! It absolutely drove me up a tree, which is why I suggest that people look at the back cover specifically, whatever else they they may think they already know about true-crime writing in general. This book may break the mold. At least in my reaction to it.
Peder

 

[Peder]

I doubt very much that this book is used in school.

One assumes and hopes not. The larger point of my post was for us all to realize that we all do have thresholds at various levels for what we regard as tolerable, even if we think not. In fact, it is the existence in the school system of just such a threshold, supported by parents, that just might be the reason for the probable truth of your statement.
Peder

 

[abecedarian]

ABC,
I am especially partial to your second point above, in addition to agreeing entirely with your viewpoint overall. Well said!
After coming home and checking the reviews of The Ice Man on amazon, I am somewhat surprised at the relatively relaxed manner in which the book is received. In particular, I am astonished that the subject of the book could be described by a reviwer as a "professional assassin and a devoted family man." Professional (and sadistic) assassin, certainly, but devoted family man? Not the kind of person I think of as a devoted family man, after reading that back cover. No way! It absolutely drove me up a tree, which is why I suggest that people look at the back cover specifically, whatever else they they may think they already know about true-crime writing in general. This book may break the mold. At least in my reaction to it.
Peder

And yet, that quote from a reviewer is why A. the book needs to be discussed and B. Why this parent(me!) would want to be present when this book is discussed, rather than trust some stranger(the teacher) to help my kid discerne the fallacy of that reviewer's statement as well as others in the book..banning the book is not the answer, but involving parents might be.

 

[Zolipara]

One assumes and hopes not. The larger point of my post was for us all to realize that we all do have thresholds at various levels for what we regard as tolerable, even if we think not. In fact, it is the existence in the school system of just such a threshold, supported by parents, that just might be the reason for the probable truth of your statement.
Peder

You seem to have very little faith in teachers. I doubt this book is used in school, not because of the violence, but because i doubt its educational value. While they probably will pick up some light reads from time to time, the teacher is more likely to pick up harry potter than a true crime story about a sadistic assasin. A teacher usually have some clue as to what books might be suitable for the age group he teaches.

In particular, I am astonished that the subject of the book could be described by a reviwer as a "professional assassin and a devoted family man." Professional (and sadistic) assassin, certainly, but devoted family man? Not the kind of person I think of as a devoted family man, after reading that back cover.

People are different. If the book describes a man that is a cold-blooded sadistic killer on the job, but is a devoted family man off duty, then the reviewer can decribe him no other way. Just because he is a professional killer it does not mean he beats up his wife and kids every day. As long as you have not actually read the book, you cant say that this isnt true.

 

[Peder]

May I politely request that you read the back cover of the book before you make generalizing statements about what I can and cannot know?
Please?
I'm sorry you seem to be offended by my remarks
Peder

 

[Fantasy Moon]

The earlier posts mentioning The Ice Man made me curious so I had to see what it was about. It sounds like my kind of book to read so I'm adding it to my TBR list. Seems to be a somewhat in-demand title so getting it through inter-library loan might take some time.

 

[Peder]

Fantasy Moon,
Your reactions will be interesting to hear, since one reviewer suggests that it stretches the envelope.
Peder

 

[Shade]

May I politely request that you read the back cover of the book before you make generalizing statements about what I can and cannot know?
Please?

I don't know about Zolipara, Peder, but I and many others here can't read the back cover because (a) it's an American publication which we don't have access to, (b) Amazon doesn't provide a back cover image, and (c) you won't reproduce its content for us!

To anyone like me who came into this discussion over the last dozen posts and got rather confused and had to follow the trail all the way back, it's perhaps worth pointing out that this book The Ice Man is nothing to do with the Most Challenged Books list, nothing to do with schools, etc. It's a recently published 'true crime' hardback. It was introduced into the discussion by Peder just as an example of a book he found repellent.

 

[Peder]

Shade,
The facts you state about book availability are interesting.
Your statements of why I mentioned the book are in error.
My reasons have in fact been stated in the posts you say you have carefully reviewed.
If you can't find them please say so and I'll repeat them again verbatim from the posts that you say you have looked at.
And yes the author's dialogue on the back cover is repulsive to me.
Sincerely,
Peder

 

[Peder]

I have requested that all posts relating to the Ice Man be transferred out into a separate thread since they seem to be so distracting here, or else deleted altogether.
In either event I can remake the points here that I have made, without using a specific reference to The Ice Man as an example.
Peder

 

[Shade]

Shade,
The facts you state about book availability are interesting.
Your statements of why I mentioned the book are in error.
My reasons have in fact been stated in the posts you say you have carefully reviewed.
If you can't find them please say so and I'll repeat them again verbatim from the posts that you say you have looked at.
And yes the author's dialogue on the back cover is repulsive to me.
Sincerely,
Peder

I do hope you don't sincerely mean 'sincerely' Peder, as the tone of your response (and your earlier response to Zolipara) is rather chilly, particularly for a member of the forum widely regarded as one of the nicest. Or perhaps you are impersonating a cold-blooded gentleman of the Humbert or Ice Man mould, in which case I accept your comments in the satirical spirit in which they are intended!

 

[Peder]

I sincerely meant every single word of my response, exactly and accurately.
However, since there seems to be considerable interest in just just what those words on the back cover say, and since not everyone can get to see the book, it occurs to me that at least that part of the problem is easily solved.
I'll gladly PM the words from the back cover to anyone who wishes to read them. Please just say so and I'll go buy the book and you'll receive them by PM from me. My money is where my mouth is, but I will not be the person who brings those particular words to light here on the general Internet, (or in this forum either for that matter.)

Peder

 

[Shade]

Thanks Peder, I'd appreciate it if you would do that.

 

[Stewart]

PM them to me too, please.

 

[steffee]

Peder, you can't go out and buy a book you hate the idea of, just to copy down the contents of the back cover for some forum members.

 

[Stewart]

Maybe it secretly turned him on and it's tucked down the back of the couch (in a brown paper bag, of course) until a quiet moment, when everyone's out.