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What did Thumper's Daddy say?

Kookamoor

Kookamoor

New Member
This kind of builds on what was said by Moto about criticism in the writers forum, but I figured it deserved a separate thread. There's been a few snide remarks going about here the last little while and many are directed at newer members who may not understand the personalities of the members who are making the comments.

For example one would not say, "yawn......" to a complete stranger if you were standing about in a group conversation and they offered a comment. Equally so, those in the writers forum should expect CONSTRUCTIVE critisism, not "Off to sleep, again..." That is neither constructive, nor critical, it is simply rude.

As Thumper's Daddy said, "If you can't say nuffink nice, don't say nuffink at all". I don't think it is fair to hide behind your avatar and screen name and bring down people you don't know even in an online context.
 
bobbyburns said:
yeah, I totally agree. the lashing out is completely immature, especially on a written forum.
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ka sshhhhh ka shhhhhhhh ka shhhhhhhhh *snoring noises*
 
I understand what you're saying to a point kook, but there's also the flip side.

There are over 3500 members here. You jump into a brand new, rather large fishbowl and start asking for comments you're going to get them. The person posting also has an obligation to understand that they may hear things that might not be all that sweet and nice. It's "real world" here. That's kinda refreshing.

The newbie has the right to hold back and watch, or not. The newbie has the ability to fly under the radar and learn about the members before jumping into the fray. There's plenty of posts and threads for anybody to get to know anybody else. That's the beauty of the General Chat area.

Doesn't the new member owe the rest of us the curtesy of allowing us to be ourselves? If they want nice-nice they get that in the members introduction area (something I've yet to do). If they jump right in and ask for critque and comments why should motokid have to tempor his real thoughts and feelings by looking at that persons post count to see if they are "ready" for what they ask for?

I'm not being combative here. I think you make a point worth discussing. I just hate the idea of having to "check-up" my honesty based on post numbers, or join date.

At what point is a new TBF member "fair game" for the reality of each individual personality that comprises this 3500+ member forum?
 
i totally agree with kookamor

while some on us are familiar with some of the members "style" and know what kind of reply expect from them, this kind of responses might discourage new members to participate

motokid, no one is asking you to be hipocrital and fake your responses, just to be a little more moderated, just the way you wouldnt considered hipocrital for not swearing in front of a 5 year old kid.

i know that your opinion is that of if you cant cope with it, get out of the forum, and that newbies should get familiar with the regulars posts, before daring to start a thread of joining a discussion.

but really, if you are a newbie, that did some writing, and is feeling the need to hear some "educated" opinion about his/her, would you actually resist the urge to ask and read first discussions with dozens of replies about farting, grudges agaisnt mods, space penguins, spiders and so?

lets supouse they do, but probably they will ask anyway, hoping those assholes from the general chat area wont come spaming crap at his serious question thread.

maybe once they are over with what brough them here in the first place, they will dare to wander around the rest of the forum, but probably they wont if they are treated like ---- on their first thread.

pd. i didnt check for sp and grammar, and dont care.
 
Actually my opinion is that a new person should be aware that with over 3500 members, there are over 3500 different personalities. Depending on the day, and the thread, and the alignment of all the planets some of those personalities may not shine at their brightest. I would hope that a new member gives everyone the benefit of the doubt, and not judge the entire forum on the written responces of just a few people.

It's unfortunate when a new person immediately feels alienated for whatever reason, but I don't think it happens very often. I would say it happens just as often by all the little inside comments and jokes, as it does from getting hurt feelings.

The written word is very hard to interpret even when it comes from someone who's not a total stranger. If it's baptism by fire on a very rare occasion, I'm not sure that can be avoided. We are all human, and mistakes are made sometimes.

For every Simon Cowell there are plenty of Paula Abduls. Isn't the show missing something without the Simons?
 
i agree. initially i felt alienated by inside jokes,(still unsure of the whole penguin, badger thing) but now i have inside jokes going and realize they are unavoidable. the trick is not to make newbies feel like morons for asking what is going on, and i have seen that happen.
 
Well, Moto - someone starting a thread completely unrelated to books on their first post is a little different!

I just think that there needs to be a little more sensitivity towards newer members. I think the in-jokes and general frivolity are quite acceptable and something that newbies need to adapt to, because this is the environment of the forum. But you shouldn't make snippy remarks at someone you've never or rarely seen before!

I don't think this sort of behaviour is rampant or even common, but over the last few weeks I've noticed some posts that I thought should have been thought through a little more. If you make fun of a newbie they may not know how to take it, and it may appear rather elitist and exclusionary. I just feel that we should think a little more carefully about what we say when we post to newer members of the forum.
 
"Well, Moto - someone starting a thread completely unrelated to books on their first post is a little different!"

Sorry, but I have to disagree here. What difference does it make where a new person starts a thread? If you're asking for sensativity to new members shouldn't that be across the boards? New is new, and chasing them out of the forum completely, before they can even make a second post is pretty horrible isn't it?

The "yawn...." comment I know of was over 100 posts into an established thread.

I'm lost in trying to understand where the acceptable line is in treating new people if the Nick and Jessica thread is ok.
 
I don't think there's anything to understand. a comment isn't offensive until someone gets offended, and since that islandchica girl never showed her face again, the dummy response could be that it was all in the name of a little light-hearted ribbing.
 
"I think the in-jokes and general frivolity are quite acceptable and something that newbies need to adapt to, because this is the environment of the forum."

Why doesn't the same thing apply to all facets of forum life?

"over the last few weeks I've noticed some posts that I thought should have been thought through a little more. If you make fun of a newbie they may not know how to take it, and it may appear rather elitist and exclusionary. I just feel that we should think a little more carefully about what we say when we post to newer members of the forum."

Maybe the established members of the forum need to come to the aid of the newbie when they see something like this happening? All it takes to make a new member feel like coming back is knowing that at least one person is willing to stick up for them. Part of that "protection" responcibility might fall on the moderators, but there's nothing stopping any forum member from stepping in and posting a "Hold up a minute XYZ, you're getting a bit rough on the newb aren't ya?"

Part of the "policing ourselves" philosophy.

If you saw something you thought was overboard what's stopping you from stepping in and posting some help for the newb? (Not directed specifically at you Kook, but really at all of us)

I really wish a few of the newer members that have signed on in the last month or so would chime in on this thread. I'd love to know why they stuck around, or what almost chased them off.
 
moto were you oprah in a former life?
you know you could just email them. their accounts are still active and their addresses are listed. i emailed a few people who've left. no response though. perhaps i'm the one who offended. :eek: :p
 
Motokid said:
There are over 3500 members here. You jump into a brand new, rather large fishbowl and start asking for comments you're going to get them. The person posting also has an obligation to understand that they may hear things that might not be all that sweet and nice. It's "real world" here. That's kinda refreshing.
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There may be 3500 registered users, but there isnt even close to 3500 regular posters. I'll take a guess and say about 50-100 users that post.

Equally so, those in the writers forum should expect CONSTRUCTIVE critisism, not "Off to sleep, again..." That is neither constructive, nor critical, it is simply rude.
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I'll add that i think its fine to give pretty harsh constructive critisism, becuase quite frankly there is some bad writing in that forum. But direct your critisism at the text not the author.
 
Great points Zolipara. I was dorking around in the members list and I'm amazed at the numbers of members that have never posted a single word, or have only posted once or twice. My guess would be that there are far fewer than 100 members who regularly post.

I really don't think anybody intends to insult the writer on a personal basis, but it won't change the fact that the writer might end up with hurt feelings and start taking things personally. Most people are going to really try their best to create something wonderful, and when it starts getting cut down comments about the writing can be interpreted as personal comments quite easily.

"I don't like your story." certainly does not equate to "I don't like you."
 
If you go to Members List and click on Posts, you can sort the list according to number of posts. Moto and Zolipara are right; once you get past 100 or so members, the number of posts drops dramatically. About half of the 3,142 (to be precise!) members have never posted at all, save maybe for intros.

This is par for the course. Most boards I'm a member of, the number of active posters is 10% or less. People join and then get bored, or forget to come back, or whatever.
 
Motokid said:
Maybe the established members of the forum need to come to the aid of the newbie when they see something like this happening? All it takes to make a new member feel like coming back is knowing that at least one person is willing to stick up for them. Part of that "protection" responcibility might fall on the moderators, but there's nothing stopping any forum member from stepping in and posting a "Hold up a minute XYZ, you're getting a bit rough on the newb aren't ya?"

Part of the "policing ourselves" philosophy.

If you saw something you thought was overboard what's stopping you from stepping in and posting some help for the newb? (Not directed specifically at you Kook, but really at all of us)
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I think it is something we all need to do. It shouldn't just be up to the mods to do this. I think we need to take responsibility for making the environment we enjoy something that all new members can take part in too. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen - indeed if you look at the link you posted, Moto, you'll see that Phil offered a courteous remark for islandchica.

I'm more than happy for forum members who aren't really interested to vamoose off the forum and never return. It's just a fact that not everyone is interested in what goes on here. But posting on a forum for the first time can be somewhat intimidating. Heck, the very first forum I posted on I was flamed to hell and my opinion was run into the ground. I then proceeded to tell the person off for his bad attitude, and received a surprisingly nice appology, actually. But people react in different ways.

It's not a problem that is rife or out of control, but it is something we need to be aware of. :)
 
Taking Critisism is hard

I think once a writer or should I say aspiring writer opens up to strangers for input on their work, they don't always expect bad comments. Everyone thinks there work is good. Especially when you've worked so hard at putting your thoughts on paper. However I do think that trutful critisim is crutial. Writers need to know the flaws of their work. As a writer just starting out you don't catch the flaws. The writers on this forum have provided me many times with harsh comments concerning my work, but it only makes me try a little harder the next time.

I welcome all comments weather its good or bad. If you think comments on TBF or harsh wait until your work is scrutinized by publishers, agents, and if you get published the general public.

Thats my thoughts on the subject. Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions and a writer should welcome them rather good or bad.
 
Thanks for your 2 cents laboi_22. I invited a few of the newer members that have been frequenting the writers showcase area. I'm glad at least one stopped by for a moment.

Hopefully the others will drop in to the dark side...... :eek:
 
laboi, that's a very astute post. Plus, you can always take or leave others' opinions; you are the final judge of how you want your work to be.
 
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