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Why does crap float to the top?

Martin

Active Member
I really didn't intend this to become a discussion, but I'll react anyway.

Every person does have the capability of being intelligent the majority however choose not to embrace this for one reason or another.
So, essentially, you choose whether or not you're intelligent? That's new.



I just don't think you can take it farther than this. I mean walk down your street...your city....you really think you will find a smart person more than 1 out of every 2 people. I think in some places you'd be lucky to find one in a hundred.
Depends on how you define 'smart'. If you're looking for a rocket scientist, you'll be disappointed - not one in a hundred will be able to build a rocket and send it to the moon. But, I'm absolutely sure that one hundred out of a hundred know something you do not - heck, most likely they're even better in their field of expertise (be it rocket science or flipping burgers) than you (not you specifically, you generally).

How do you define 'smart'?

Cheers
 

True@1stLight

New Member
1) Yes, you to good extent decide how intelligent you are. Obviously learning curves are different....but not everything was destined at birth.

2) I'm not talking triva questions here.....And I really don't care to get into a whole subjectivism argument with Wittgenstein.....and I'm pretty sure I could teach my dog to flip hamburgers if I had long enough.
 

Wabbit

New Member
True@1stLight said:
Here, how about this. Every person does have the capability of being intelligent the majority however choose not to embrace this for one reason or another.

Yes, I agree with this compleatly. I think that you are right on this. Everybody can learn, for some, it will just take longer. If you really want to learn then you can do anything.

OK, so there are 2 main points here, as I see it.

1) People can choose to be intelligent, but don't choose to.

2) As stated upthread, people just wanna be entertained. People don't want to be moved, or challanged or provoked.

Now we get to it... :D

Why?
 

VTChEwbecca

kickbox
SillyWabbit said:
2) As stated upthread, people just wanna be entertained. People don't want to be moved, or challanged or provoked.

Now we get to it... :D

Why?

I think it has a lot to do with the current culture. Everyone is rushing to get things done, without much time to breathe. They don't have the time to sit down and truly appreciate a good piece of literature. They don't even take the time to go out and find a good piece of literature. Instead, they look at the best seller list, figure it must be entertaining, and go on with their lives, completely missing the truly good novels. In our current society, life is so rushed, there is very little time left over to sit around and enjoy the good stuff.

Often when people do get a chance to sit back and relax, they want their minds to be completely unburdened by weighty topics, so they sit back and read (or watch) crap. A majority of people do not find learning to be fun or relaxing, so they avoid it when possible.
 
For me, there are times I want to be mindlessly entertained. Other times, I want to have to think about what I'm reading.

As for intelligence, I'm not sure what your definition of intelligence is. My definition of true intelligence is what most people would probably term basic common sense. For example, we don't drive 85 on the freeway. We could actually kill someone else. Another example, parents actually spend more time than money on their children. And every child doesn't need Ritalin just because he's a little active.

At any rate, if you can define your version of intelligence, and why that makes one elite, I'd appreciate it. I know many who don't have the intelligence it seems you are discussing (book intelligence?, IQ, etc..) and haven't read Shakespears or Homer, but who are blessings to those they come in contact with because they have simple common sense.
 

Irene Wilde

New Member
avidreader55 said:
At any rate, if you can define your version of intelligence, and why that makes one elite, I'd appreciate it. I know many who don't have the intelligence it seems you are discussing (book intelligence?, IQ, etc..) and haven't read Shakespears or Homer, but who are blessings to those they come in contact with because they have simple common sense.

Now the discussion become interesting! I don't necessarily understand this concept of "elite" that's been bandied about, however, there are many intelligences. When I was young, my father used to say there was "book smart" and "street smart," but there are others, including a sort of "creative smart." What's been my experience, is everyone has these different types of intelligence, some more strongly than others.

However, there are some people, and I know many of them, who are not content to stay within their area of strength. There are some people who, for some reason, have to keep going, keep exploring. They have a thirst, a passion, for new ideas, new ways of thinking, new experiences. No, they don't have to have degrees hanging on their wall, or come from a certain background. In fact, most don't, and every one of the people that I know like this would laugh at the idea that they comprise some type of "intellectual elite." Perhaps what they have is an absence of fear.

Humans can be quite fearful creatures. We like to feel safe and comfortable. Maybe that's why so many of us are content to sit on the sofa, watch TV, and stay with the herd. They don't want their reality questioned; they don't want to see things differently because different is scary. Different takes them outside the safety of the herd.

Irene Wilde
 
Irene,

I completely agree with what you are saying. What is life without reaching beyond yourself to bry to be something more - better, if you will? I only used the word "elite" because it had been mentioned a couple of times before and I had the distinct impression that because one reads certain books, he/she is supposed to be better than others who don't or who, in some cases, can't.

Then again, what's life without having a little fun, kicking back, and reading an easy read book which requires absolutely no "book intelligence" or very little thought to finish? I know I like to be mindlessly entertained occassionally. :D
 

True@1stLight

New Member
avidreader55 said:
Then again, what's life without having a little fun, kicking back, and reading an easy read book which requires absolutely no "book intelligence" or very little thought to finish? I know I like to be mindlessly entertained occassionally. :D

First, how did we get from the discussion of intelligence to elite. Although there may be comparisons we're talking about two completely different things with those terms.

Also, nobody is saying that some books should never be read Dan Brown, Dean Koontz whoever the best seller is at the time.....Wabbit is asking why they are read so much more often than ones that DO make you think. Anyway, continue on, I just the discussion is becoming disjointed from the foremost topic.
 

Irene Wilde

New Member
avidreader55 said:
What is life without reaching beyond yourself to bry to be something more - better, if you will?

No, not "better." Better is a judgement. I wouldn't call anyone "better" because they've read "Ulysses" or listened to Beethoven, or because they haven't. It isn't even about the self, really. In a way, it's an anti-self; a search for something beyond the self, beyond individual knowledge or experience. I think I've stopped making sense now, so I will stop writing. Sometimes it's difficult for me to break down something I understand intuitively and put it into words.

Irene Wilde
 

True@1stLight

New Member
We of course are assuming in that there is something beyond the self. Not that I'm saying there's not, but that's a large assumption for a individual based question of why so called crap floats to the top.
 

True@1stLight

New Member
I'm not sure that came out the clearest. I think the question you answered is perhaps WHY people choose to read those type of books. (For Percy's so called "search".) The question being posed I believe however is WHY NOT? Why don't the majority of people partake in this search for something beyond. It obviously holds some greater value to us if we choose to immerse ourselves in this search. I'm not sure I would use the word elite, but we are certainly seeking to gain something rather than lose it, are we not? So why aren't a majority of others?
 

Irene Wilde

New Member
True@1stLight said:
the discussion is becoming disjointed from the foremost topic.

Sorry, True. I tend to do that. In my head, I see the connections, but I am not so good at making those connections clear to other people.

I'll be quiet now. :(

Irene Wilde
 

True@1stLight

New Member
Irene Wilde said:
Sorry, True. I tend to do that. In my head, I see the connections, but I am not so good at making those connections clear to other people.

I'll be quiet now. :(

Irene Wilde

No please don't.....I was speaking more to avid bringing in the term elite and speaking of what life is with or without fun ....just was off base. I am quite interested in the direction you might be taking this. Read above responses and reply if it strikes you :)
 

True@1stLight

New Member
I almost always play devils advocate if possible in discussions to dig to the bottom of things. I always welcome intriguing ideas :)
 

Irene Wilde

New Member
The "why not" is the ultimate question for me. If I could understand that, I'd be more popular and people would invite me to parties and stuff. :)

Going back to my college days (way too many years ago), I took a course in psychology where they talked about a hierarchy of needs, and as each need was met in an individual, that person could devote more time to the next level of needs. Most of these needs were food, clothing, shelter, and love. More abstract needs followed these basic needs. Perhaps more people are struggling to meet those basic need and don't have the energy to expend on other things? Or, again, I'll go back to what I said about fear. Humans are a herding animal, like zebras. They don't want to stray. They don't want to separate themselves or be identified as "different." They are also communal animals, like prairie dogs. They want common denominators. They want something to talk about over the water cooler at work. Things that have the lowest common denominator, therefore, tend to be the most popular, but they also tend to follow formulas, lack dimension, and challenge the status quo as little as possible.

Tell me if I've stopped making sense again. :)

Irene Wilde
 

Wabbit

New Member
Irene Wilde said:
The "why not" is the ultimate question for me. If I could understand that, I'd be more popular and people would invite me to parties and stuff. :)

Going back to my college days (way too many years ago), I took a course in psychology where they talked about a hierarchy of needs, and as each need was met in an individual, that person could devote more time to the next level of needs. Most of these needs were food, clothing, shelter, and love. More abstract needs followed these basic needs. Perhaps more people are struggling to meet those basic need and don't have the energy to expend on other things? Or, again, I'll go back to what I said about fear. Humans are a herding animal, like zebras. They don't want to stray. They don't want to separate themselves or be identified as "different." They are also communal animals, like prairie dogs. They want common denominators. They want something to talk about over the water cooler at work. Things that have the lowest common denominator, therefore, tend to be the most popular, but they also tend to follow formulas, lack dimension, and challenge the status quo as little as possible.

Tell me if I've stopped making sense again. :)

Irene Wilde

Yes, this makes sense to me. Also, I like and agree with what you have said regarding intelligence. :)

I don't know. For me, personally, life would be horrible if I was not moved in some way. If I did not know something more. If I was not challanged and if I was not exposed to something beautiful. I just could not live that way. It's too horrible. So, apart from what you have said, why would people choose that? What you say makes sense, but it is so alien to me. It is hard to understand why somebody would choose such a grey life :)
 

True@1stLight

New Member
I just want to mark this occasion! A thread has actually moved in a foward direction still based on the origional question....HOOAH!!! :eek:
 
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