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William Golding: Lord Of The Flies

Lord of the Flies

oddball said:
'Lord of the Flies' is really gruesome, obscene and absolutely *horrid*
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I don't know about obscene, but I can go along with gruesome. However, does it seem unlikely? Can't you imagine boys (not to pick on boys, just referencing the text ;) ) getting out of control like that? Not all boys, naturally. And of course, the naval officer at the end as a reminder that even civilized adult "boys" can act like uncivilized savages with each other.
 
M&O said:
I don't know about obscene, but I can go along with gruesome. However, does it seem unlikely? Can't you imagine boys (not to pick on boys, just referencing the text ;) ) getting out of control like that? Not all boys, naturally. And of course, the naval officer at the end as a reminder that even civilized adult "boys" can act like uncivilized savages with each other.
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I can see how the premise is plausible. However, the book was far too gruesome for me to even remotely enjoy the book. I think it is well-written and a unique idea, but I did not enjoy it one bit. In fact, I was horrified. I should mention, however, that I tend to stay away from anything gruesome...be it books, tv shows, or movies. Therefore, I am a bit sensitive to it when I do come across gruesome material.
 
VTChEwbecca said:
In fact, I was horrified.
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You should have been horrified. To my mind, the author wanted to spark such a feeling in the readers, to make them aware that they should beware of what is hidden (not so deeply, unfortunately) inside them.
 
Idun said:
You should have been horrified. To my mind, the author wanted to spark such a feeling in the readers, to make them aware that they should beware of what is hidden (not so deeply, unfortunately) inside them.
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I don't think I needed to read that to know that humans have such hidden inside them. I've seen too much of what happens in real life to need to read a book about such things.
 
VTChEwbecca said:
I don't think I needed to read that to know that humans have such hidden inside them. I've seen too much of what happens in real life to need to read a book about such things.
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There are some people who are not as wise as you are, and those should be informed. There are also such people who know, but appreciate expressing an old truth in a new form. What would be literature for, if not dealing with most painful human problems?
 
You make a good point, I think, Indun.

I think that is why books like that are important. Books like 1984 and Lord of Flies.

Regards
SillyWabbit
 
Idun said:
There are some people who are not as wise as you are, and those should be informed. There are also such people who know, but appreciate expressing an old truth in a new form. What would be literature for, if not dealing with most painful human problems?
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Those that haven't realized that yet, probably aren't going to pick it up via reading.
 
But there is always hope :)

If we don't think they might... phew! I would be even MORE crazy :D

Regards
SillyWabbit
 
VTChEwbecca said:
Those that haven't realized that yet, probably aren't going to pick it up via reading.
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Let's give them a chance.
Of course, I mean a chance of meeting one of us, brilliant bookworms, who will them what the book is about. ;)
 
For anyone who has not read this book, watch out, don't read this. It might be considered a spoiler.

For anyone who has read this book I am interested in hearing what you picked out as the "theme"...

Is it that society will not change, based on the differing characteristics of youth and adult?

Is it that an anarchy will emerge without rule?

I read about half of this book last night, and I found myself a bit confused at what William Goldwing implies in this allegorical novel.

Oh, and what is Piggy's role in this story?
 
To me the essential theme in Golding's book is the question of how good people do bad things. None of these kids were really bad when they came to the island, yet it didn't take very long before murder was in the air. We see them start distancing themselves from each other, and dressing up in uniforms of sorts (I'm thinking of the face-paint here)
Time has proven that people quickly become sadistic when they get split up into groups with no one and nothing outside to control them from becoming increasingly sadistic.
The prison experiments they performed at Stanford in the 70s come to mind, where they had college students put in the roles as prison guards and prisoners, and these apparently very nice kids quickly become real menaces towards one-another.

Basically, I feel the book shows that we need the societies we have built for ourselves, as it reins us in, letting us feel fairly safe with each other.

Edit: As for piggy in specific, I guess he essentially becomes both a symbol of innocence and of social order. He's in many ways the only one who keeps a clear mind and tries to organize them; I guess you could say he's the one that acts the way most people would like to say and wish they'd act in such a situation. Alas, most don't. Most become, instead, the silent majority who stand by, taking no action when evil is done.
 
I see a fair bit about religion in it. The kids experince things they can't explain and makes a sacrifise, thereby making Lord of the flies (Satan).. Piggy represents science and by making their sacrifice they turn their back on his explanation of things(science).
Its a long time since I read it but as far as I remember they try to recreate the world they know. They try building a democracy based on science but they quickly turn to dictatorship and religion to govern their little island. Seem to remember something about different persons representing differnet countries in the world but I'm not really sure.
 
Piggy represents the ability to see things the way they truly are. This is why it is so important to the progress of the story when one of his lenses breaks and when he loses his glasses then essentially when he dies. All hell breaks loose.

I really love this book, I belive the theme had to do with the hypocracy of society. The boys talk about being 'civilized' and things of that nature, 'like grown ups' and in fact they end up doing just that in a way. They start their own war to match the war that is going on in the real world.
 
William Golding: The Lord Of The Flies

Another well known classic here from 1954, known to many from school, I did this at school too and remembered the basic premise of the story and the key points but had really forgotten or not really noticed the power and quality of both the writing and the storyline. Re visiting this as an adult perhaps I'm more able to see it as a fine novel, influential too as the ideas there have been used in more modern books and films (Alex Garlands superb book - "The Beach" springs to mind) with a gripping and thought provoking narrative. The copy I read the 1986 Faber & Faber educational edition had the advantage of a detailed introduction as well as copious notes at the back to explain each point in detail for use in the classroom. These notes really helped and to be honest some of the questions had me stumped but that may be down to my own lack of insight rather than the abilities of school children it's aimed at! Even though I knew ultimately what would happen in the descent to savagery, the path it takes still shocks and disturbs slightly even now. This is one of those books that because of its school associations we think we know and ultimately may dismiss but the power to shock all these years later were actually quite surprising.

Strange too is the reaction now as a parent reading this novel. Reading as a schoolchild I viewed it from the bear pit of the playground yet as an adult I was able to disassociate myself from the characters and see them as the children they ultimately are. To be honest I felt like giving the evil protagonists a clip round the ear hole and telling them not to be so beastly and play nicely to use the 50's parlance the book is written in. But it’s a book and the dreadful climax comes upon the reader with an awful inevitability. Paradise tempts everyone at some point but quite often it holds hidden dangers both within and without as the children found on the island. I'm not at all sure whether this novel is used in schools now or if it has been replaced by the modern Louis Sachar novel "Holes". It may viewed by some as not really suitable in today's modern classroom given that it could be viewed as dated both in its outlook and the terms of speech used or the characterisation of public schoolboys, I don't know myself but given the already mentioned far reaching ideas that spread into modern literature perhaps it should be read just for its place in classic post war literature. I liked this quick read, I found the re visiting of an book read many years ago at school a delightful experience I hope other may view it in the same way or even new younger readers discover a old classic.

Did you know the "The Lord of the Flies" is from the Arabic Baal- Zebub , Beelzebub one of the manifestations of the Devil? . I found that in the notes!!
 
At first,when I started reading "The Lord of the Flies" I hated it. But as the story progressed I started to enjoy it more. Half way through I forgot these people were little boys and I think you realize that they are little boys at the end. Now I'm wondering what would happen if there was an island of schoolgirls.
I always thought Beelzebub was Aramaic. He is mentioned in the Bible as well.
 
I read this book about 15 years ago, and while I don't remember all of it, there are a few things I remember very vividly - mainly things revolving around Piggy. I think this was one of the first "young adult" books I read, and I remember being quite shocked at the story, and how violent it was. Oh, it corrupted my young mind. :p

I'd like to re-read it as an adult, and see how/if my perception of it has changed. Probably not as impactful as it was then, now that I am a bit wiser to the ways of the world. :rolleyes: It's books like Lord of the Flies and The Outsiders, that got me away from reading The Famous Five, Nancy Drew, and Hardy Boys series ( :eek: ), and into reading more "real-life" novels. :)
 
What age range is this book suitable for? I'd like to suggest it to my son but I think that he might be too young at 11.
 
lilbiteb said:
What age range is this book suitable for? I'd like to suggest it to my son but I think that he might be too young at 11.
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I think I was about 13 or 14 when I read it, which is probably about right IMO, otherwise a lot of it could go over your son's head (unless he is exceptionally mature!)
 
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