A critique of Oprah's book club

[Isabell]

I suppose the real question is: if it gets them reading, does it matter why they are reading it?

Exactly- you think her regular readers would actually pick up these two books had she not added this to her list?
Highly doubt it

 

[Libra]

I think there are alot of people who would not pick certain books if they weren't recommended by someone else,therefore opening a door to another level or genre and so on.

I am sure there are those who will toss it and there will be those who will embrace it and try and understand everything about it.
It goes with any book that's recommended.

These are the ones I have read from her reading list:


The Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett
Love in the Time of Cholera by Gabriel García Márquez
Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides
One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel García Márquez
Night -Elie Weisel

 

[Peder]

I would like to know how many books (as a total) were sold before and after Oprah's Book Club. That would probably be the best way to measure it's impact.

Hi Landslide, again, :flowers:

An afterthought on "books sold," adding to my previous post. It is the "sold" part that seems to be hard to come by. Books printed seems to be an easier number for a publisher to brag about, and for journalists to find out about, like "100,000 books shipped in the first week," or whatever number. Harder to find, and much less talked about, is books actually sold to customers -- because the difference is the number of books that were returned unsold to the publisher, and that figure is what nobody likes to talk about.

So "books read?" Who knows?

 

[Peder]

There is a further thought I would add to this discussion, at the risk of being tangential, and while my mind is wandering over matters related to books, bookselling and Oprah.

There is considerable sentiment in this thread for the thought that Oprah is doing good for reading. It would seem to me that, in the course of doing good, she is also doing well -- for herself.

I once asked my local independent bookstore owner about the Oprah sticker on the books she had on prominent display -- probably about whether it increased sales or not. She was not enthusiastic about any possible difference, but did did take the opportunity grumble that such books cut her profit. Her complaint being that Oprah received a cut of the markup for every book sold with her sticker, and that Oprah's cut came out of her, the sellers markup. So she was less enthusiastic than she might be about sales of Oprah books, as compared to other books in her shop.

So the bottom line seems to be that Oprah is doing well for herself at the expense of independent booksellers, for whatever good she may or may not be doing for general reading.

And that all the buzz and hullabaloo about Oprah's Book Club being so wonderful, here and elsewhere, counts as free advertising to expand her own profits.

 

[Landslide]

Well, I've seen the list of books chosen and although I haven't read any of them yet, I do own many, and plan to read them eventually. So I maintain my opinion that whether or not one agrees with her choices it's a matter of taste.

And I browsed around the resources offered and they seemed appropriate for a book club.

Hi Landslide, again, :flowers:

An afterthought on "books sold," adding to my previous post. It is the "sold" part that seems to be hard to come by. Books printed seems to be an easier number for a publisher to brag about, and for journalists to find out about, like "100,000 books shipped in the first week," or whatever number. Harder to find, and much less talked about, is books actually sold to customers -- because the difference is the number of books that were returned unsold to the publisher, and that figure is what nobody likes to talk about.

So "books read?" Who knows?

I can see why publishers avoid releasing these numbers. It would be admitting failure if the number of books returned unsold was larger that the sold ones. Actually a portuguese publisher had a very funny promotion this year, called "Special Badsellers - Sales you can count with your fingers", where they admited those books had been badsellers and were offering them at a 50% discount.



As for the number of books read, although it would be the perfect statistic, it's also an impossible one... :sad:

About the profits she's making on the book club, I'm not so naive as to think she was only doing it for the kindness of her heart. I think she got where she is right now also because she's a clever business woman. It does suck that her cut is coming from the bookseller's part and not the publisher's but I don't know anything about how those deals are made, so I can't really point my finger at who's to blame there, Oprah or the publishers.

But I'd love to try her reading resources on a BOTM (and of course people could read any edition of the chosen book and not necessarily the one with the Oprah sticker).

 

[Peder]

No argument at all with anything you say, Landslide, especially that she is a very astute and talented business person. And powerful. No doubt about any of that.

And :lol: re the portugese promotion. I hope it did well. :whistling:

Re the BOTM, there is nothing wrong with any of her titles, and they are better than most. Even the Frey book was an interesting read, whatever complaints one might have had about its factuality. (I bought it, read it, and never got worked up enough to complain or ask for my money back).

 

[Zolipara]

She was not enthusiastic about any possible difference, but did did take the opportunity grumble that such books cut her profit. Her complaint being that Oprah received a cut of the markup for every book sold with her sticker, and that Oprah's cut came out of her, the sellers markup. So she was less enthusiastic than she might be about sales of Oprah books, as compared to other books in her shop.

Considering the amount of "free" promotion these books get you would think they sell a lot more of them than they normally would. So even with a reduced markup she probably makes the same or more profit from selling these books.

And yes ofcourse someone will have to pay for this promotion.

 

[Peder]

Considering the amount of "free" promotion these books get you would think they sell a lot more of them than they normally would. So even with a reduced markup she probably makes the same or more profit from selling these books.

A guess, or is that a hope?

It just wasn't the first thing that came to my bookstore owner's mind when I mentioned Oprah. Or even to her mind at all. I gave the conversation as it took place. Reach one's own conclusions. :flowers:

Or maybe she is just naturally a grumpy person.

 

[Landslide]

And :lol: re the portugese promotion. I hope it did well. :whistling:

I don't know how it went but if they do the same next year and the titles are the same it probably didn't go very well...

Re the BOTM, there is nothing wrong with any of her titles, and they are better than most. Even the Frey book was an interesting read, whatever complaints one might have had about its factuality. (I bought it, read it, and never got worked up enough to complain or ask for my money back).

Is that the fiction book the author was promoting as non-fiction? I remember reading something about that.

 

[Peder]

Considering the amount of "free" promotion these books get you would think they sell a lot more of them than they normally would. So even with a reduced markup she probably makes the same or more profit from selling these books.

On second thought, yes, of course you are right, in that advertising should increase sales. That is why they do it.

And selling even one additional book, even at reduced markup, would still be additional income to the store owner.

So, maybe my bookstore owner didn't know which side her bread was buttered on? Dunno.

 

[Peder]

Is that the fiction book the author was promoting as non-fiction? I remember reading something about that.

Yes, it was A Million Little Pieces by James Frey. It was claimed to be the true story of the author's successful experience in an up-scale private rehabilitation program to recover from his drug and alcohol addiction. In itself, that would have made an interesting and worthwhile book, I thought.

Actually some scenes raised one's eyebrows, even in advance of the revelation that they were fictitious -- like the author undergoing root canal work without any anesthetics at all, or a highly placed judge there fixing an outstanding case against the author while undergoing rehabilitation himself.

In retrospect, after discounting the story as (largely?) fictional, it reads more like soap opera. But I bought it and enjoyed it, so no matter.

 

[Zolipara]

A guess, or is that a hope?

It just wasn't the first thing that came to my bookstore owner's mind when I mentioned Oprah. Or even to her mind at all. I gave the conversation as it took place. Reach one's own conclusions. :flowers:

Or maybe she is just naturally a grumpy person.

Its not a guess, its "business for beginners". If it wasn't true Oprah would not get anything for promoting books.

I guess your friend just doesn't really understand simple economics. Its remarkably common with "independent" store owners.

 

[Peder]

Its not a guess, its "business for beginners". If it wasn't true Oprah would not get anything for promoting books.

I guess your friend just doesn't really understand simple economics. Its remarkably common with "independent" store owners.

I agree on business for beginners and simple economics. I've had the courses.

For myself there is a limit to the number of books I can actually buy and read in a year, so following Oprah's recommendations would only shift my book buying in a direction favorable to her, without necessarily increasing my purchases at the bookseller. But that's me -- even though one might talk about inelasticity of demand IIRC, and competing alternative products (I forget the technical term, for such transfers of demand). I would think she is competing for share of market as well as anything. Whether or not overall volume goes up (a benefit to the boookseller), her volume goes up (a benefit to her).

BTW It is clear that Oprah benefits from advertising her books, no disagreement there at all. My original comment related to the bookseller, not to Oprah. Of course Oprah benefits.

 

[Zolipara]

Whether or not overall volume goes up (a benefit to the boookseller), her volume goes up (a benefit to her).

It it didnt do that then Oprah would not have a product to sell to the bookstores/publishers. Either that or they love Oprah so much they chose to support her financially.

 

[Peder]

It it didnt do that then Oprah would not have a product to sell to the bookstores/publishers. Either that or they love Oprah so much they chose to support her financially.

If that is just a different way of saying that she is wedging herself into an existing market to take a share of total sales in that market, and in addition taking a cut of the profit of the existing booksellers and reducing their profitabiltiy, then I think we are in agreement. Or at least, I think my bookseller and you are in agreement.

It seems to me this is becoming a discussion of what "product" is being sold to whom with what rationale.

 

[Zolipara]

I dont think so.

 

[Peder]

I think that is as far as we are going to get, so let's call it quits.

I'm out.

 

[SFG75]

I won't get into the mental twister of whether or not Oprah helps readers to read more, or if non-readers become readers and books fly off the shelves. Instead, I'll focus more on books moving off of shelves, which is a good indicator, no matter who buys them. Oprah's recommendation is largely credited with helping one book stay on the bestseller list for 71 weeks. The same article has a source crediting her with saving publishing itself. I don't know if that is the case, but that is perhaps for another discussion another time.

As for some more quantifiable evidence:

Butler and his team examined the 45 non-children's titles Winfrey picked from the club's inception in 1996 until she announced in 2002 that she would change the program and pick only "classics."

"Only 11 of them had previously been on the best-seller list, and the top rank that any of them ever achieved, of those eleven, was 25th," Butler said. "Of the first eleven books that she picked, all of them went to the top four within the week that she recommended them."

Butler also noted that Oprah's more popular picks that were later released in paperback spent, on average, 6.5 weeks in the top 25, even though they had been on the best-seller list a year earlier as hardbacks.

Additional evidence of Oprah's impact came when the researchers compared the duration of each of her picks on the list with the duration other titles spent in the top 150.

"It's not just an overall average," Butler said. "We're comparing the short-term, median-term and long-term books, with Oprah's short-term, median-term and long-term books, and those are really distinct. Her average and below-average picks stayed on the list much longer than the average and below-average bestseller books."

The researchers conducted statistical tests to verify that their results were strictly correlated with the "Oprah effect" and not the product of chance or some other variables.

Source.

Obviously she gets people to read more than they already do, if they are bibliophiles or not.

The discussion up to this point has been a good one, I was a bit surprised at the path it has undergone. I believe the author had more of a point in his analysis of how she applies a single lens towards all of the works that she selects. Namely, the lens of "what do I believe the book is about," and "what does it mean for me?" At first, I was intrigued by this criticism. I can't remember who posted the link to her website on books, but in it, there are other links to sites about the life of Dickens, as well as sites regarding character analysis in the books that she chose. I don't believe it would be an in-depth coverage that would be worthy of what a professor would give you, but it appears that she is attempting to make a good faith effort to provide credible and necessary background information on the books and their authors. The more that I think about it, the more the author's criticism on this point is valid, but not fatally so in his piece.

 

[Peder]

Thanks for some quantifiable evidence.

Many thanks, in fact. :flowers:

 

[pontalba]

I ran across an article that may be of interest to posters in this thread.

Oprah's book club picks falling short

The choices have also (as many Oprah picks do) come under some fire. The New Republic complained that Winfrey, who has not previously read the books, was wrongly selling them as a light holiday read and would bring little to the discussion. Oprah fans “must now scramble about to decipher Dickens’s obscure dialectical styling and his long-lost euphemisms—and the sad truth is that, with no real guidance, readers cannot grow into lovers of the canon,” the article said. The Atlantic reviewed that critique and piled on more, saying, “To treat serious literature as fun is an admirable way to get people reading Dickens, but if Oprah's teaching leaves thousands of readers misinformed or confused, is that really responsible?”