abecedarian
Well-Known Member
Jemima Aslana said:
Denmark exists? I thought it was a product of Shakespeare's keen imagination
We won't share that info with the terrorists
-
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Are you afraid of terrorists striking where you live?
- Thread starter novella
- Start date
Denmark exists? I thought it was a product of Shakespeare's keen imagination
We won't share that info with the terrorists
StillILearn
New Member
Robert Scheer has an opinion on this very subject:
http://www.WantToKnow.info/050111latimes
Is Al Qaeda Just a Bush Boogeyman?
Robert Scheer
Los Angeles Times
January 11, 2005
Is it conceivable that Al Qaeda, as defined by President Bush as the center of a vast and well-organized international terrorist conspiracy, does not exist?
To even raise the question amid all the officially inspired hysteria is heretical, especially in the context of the U.S. media's supine acceptance of administration claims relating to national security. Yet a brilliant new BBC film produced by one of Britain's leading documentary filmmakers systematically challenges this and many other accepted articles of faith in the so-called war on terror.
"The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear," a three-hour historical film by Adam Curtis recently aired by the British Broadcasting Corp., argues coherently that much of what we have been told about the threat of international terrorism "is a fantasy that has been exaggerated and distorted by politicians. It is a dark illusion that has spread unquestioned through governments around the world, the security services and the international media."
Stern stuff, indeed. But consider just a few of the many questions the program poses along the way:
o If Osama bin Laden does, in fact, head a vast international terrorist organization with trained operatives in more than 40 countries, as claimed by Bush, why, despite torture of prisoners, has this administration failed to produce hard evidence of it?
o How can it be that in Britain since 9/11, 664 people have been detained on suspicion of terrorism but only 17 have been found guilty, most of them with no connection to Islamist groups and none who were proven members of Al Qaeda?
o Why have we heard so much frightening talk about "dirty bombs" when experts say it is panic rather than radioactivity that would kill people?
o Why did Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld claim on "Meet the Press" in 2001 that Al Qaeda controlled massive high-tech cave complexes in Afghanistan, when British and U.S. military forces later found no such thing?
Of course, the documentary does not doubt that an embittered, well-connected and wealthy Saudi man named Osama bin Laden helped finance various affinity groups of Islamist fanatics that have engaged in terror, including the 9/11 attacks. Nor does it challenge the notion that a terrifying version of fundamentalist Islam has led to gruesome spates of violence throughout the world. But the film, both more sober and more deeply provocative than Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11," directly challenges the conventional wisdom by making a powerful case that the Bush administration, led by a tight-knit cabal of Machiavellian neoconservatives, has seized upon the false image of a unified international terrorist threat to replace the expired Soviet empire in order to push a political agenda.
Terrorism is deeply threatening, but it appears to be a much more fragmented and complex phenomenon than the octopus-network image of Al Qaeda, with Bin Laden as its head, would suggest.
While the BBC documentary acknowledges that the threat of terrorism is both real and growing, it disagrees that the threat is centralized:
"There are dangerous and fanatical individuals and groups around the world who have been inspired by extreme Islamist ideas and who will use the techniques of mass terror -- the attacks on America and Madrid make this only too clear. But the nightmare vision of a uniquely powerful hidden organization waiting to strike our societies is an illusion. Wherever one looks for this Al Qaeda organization, from the mountains of Afghanistan to the 'sleeper cells' in America, the British and Americans are chasing a phantom enemy."
The fact is, despite the efforts of several government commissions and a vast army of investigators, we still do not have a credible narrative of a "war on terror" that is being fought in the shadows.
Consider, for example, that neither the 9/11 commission nor any court of law has been able to directly take evidence from the key post-9/11 terror detainees held by the United States. Everything we know comes from two sides that both have a great stake in exaggerating the threat posed by Al Qaeda: the terrorists themselves and the military and intelligence agencies that have a vested interest in maintaining the facade of an overwhelmingly dangerous enemy.
Such a state of national ignorance about an endless war is, as "The Power of Nightmares" makes clear, simply unacceptable in a functioning democracy.
---------
To view a video of "The Power of Nightmares" for free, or download the transcript, Go to:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/powerofnightmares
http://www.WantToKnow.info/050111latimes
Is Al Qaeda Just a Bush Boogeyman?
Robert Scheer
Los Angeles Times
January 11, 2005
Is it conceivable that Al Qaeda, as defined by President Bush as the center of a vast and well-organized international terrorist conspiracy, does not exist?
To even raise the question amid all the officially inspired hysteria is heretical, especially in the context of the U.S. media's supine acceptance of administration claims relating to national security. Yet a brilliant new BBC film produced by one of Britain's leading documentary filmmakers systematically challenges this and many other accepted articles of faith in the so-called war on terror.
"The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear," a three-hour historical film by Adam Curtis recently aired by the British Broadcasting Corp., argues coherently that much of what we have been told about the threat of international terrorism "is a fantasy that has been exaggerated and distorted by politicians. It is a dark illusion that has spread unquestioned through governments around the world, the security services and the international media."
Stern stuff, indeed. But consider just a few of the many questions the program poses along the way:
o If Osama bin Laden does, in fact, head a vast international terrorist organization with trained operatives in more than 40 countries, as claimed by Bush, why, despite torture of prisoners, has this administration failed to produce hard evidence of it?
o How can it be that in Britain since 9/11, 664 people have been detained on suspicion of terrorism but only 17 have been found guilty, most of them with no connection to Islamist groups and none who were proven members of Al Qaeda?
o Why have we heard so much frightening talk about "dirty bombs" when experts say it is panic rather than radioactivity that would kill people?
o Why did Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld claim on "Meet the Press" in 2001 that Al Qaeda controlled massive high-tech cave complexes in Afghanistan, when British and U.S. military forces later found no such thing?
Of course, the documentary does not doubt that an embittered, well-connected and wealthy Saudi man named Osama bin Laden helped finance various affinity groups of Islamist fanatics that have engaged in terror, including the 9/11 attacks. Nor does it challenge the notion that a terrifying version of fundamentalist Islam has led to gruesome spates of violence throughout the world. But the film, both more sober and more deeply provocative than Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11," directly challenges the conventional wisdom by making a powerful case that the Bush administration, led by a tight-knit cabal of Machiavellian neoconservatives, has seized upon the false image of a unified international terrorist threat to replace the expired Soviet empire in order to push a political agenda.
Terrorism is deeply threatening, but it appears to be a much more fragmented and complex phenomenon than the octopus-network image of Al Qaeda, with Bin Laden as its head, would suggest.
While the BBC documentary acknowledges that the threat of terrorism is both real and growing, it disagrees that the threat is centralized:
"There are dangerous and fanatical individuals and groups around the world who have been inspired by extreme Islamist ideas and who will use the techniques of mass terror -- the attacks on America and Madrid make this only too clear. But the nightmare vision of a uniquely powerful hidden organization waiting to strike our societies is an illusion. Wherever one looks for this Al Qaeda organization, from the mountains of Afghanistan to the 'sleeper cells' in America, the British and Americans are chasing a phantom enemy."
The fact is, despite the efforts of several government commissions and a vast army of investigators, we still do not have a credible narrative of a "war on terror" that is being fought in the shadows.
Consider, for example, that neither the 9/11 commission nor any court of law has been able to directly take evidence from the key post-9/11 terror detainees held by the United States. Everything we know comes from two sides that both have a great stake in exaggerating the threat posed by Al Qaeda: the terrorists themselves and the military and intelligence agencies that have a vested interest in maintaining the facade of an overwhelmingly dangerous enemy.
Such a state of national ignorance about an endless war is, as "The Power of Nightmares" makes clear, simply unacceptable in a functioning democracy.
---------
To view a video of "The Power of Nightmares" for free, or download the transcript, Go to:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/powerofnightmares
Ms.
New Member
Kenny Shovel said:
"We’re talking about a small group of people, including a number of elected representatives, who run the whole republican movement. We are talking about Martin McGuinness, Gerry Adams, Martin Ferris and others" - Michael McDowell, Irish justice minister
a) Sinn Fein is a political party they do not engage in terrorist actions
b) No conclusive proof of McGuinness being a member of the ira army council (he was a member of the ira years ago)
c) No conclusive proof of Adams being member of the ira army council or the ira
d) No conlusive proof of Ferris being a member of the ira army council (again same as McGuinness)
d) McDowell engaged in slander while he may believe what he says the timing had political moviations
e) I can understand bush wanting to air on the side of caution in who he invites because of these accusations but in the end its his own personal judgement.
novella said:
i wanna stress implicated
MonkeyCatcher
New Member
StillI - thanks for the great article! I definitely want to watch this movie, and would probably not have heard of it if it wasn't for this article 
I would add more about my thoughts on the topic, but we don't want to be breaking rules, do we
I would add more about my thoughts on the topic, but we don't want to be breaking rules, do we 
WoundedThorns
New Member
the poconos? lol. its becoming more crowded the past few years tho..
i didn't even fear terrorism when i lived 8 miles away from NYC. maybe i'm still that naive
i didn't even fear terrorism when i lived 8 miles away from NYC. maybe i'm still that naive
WoundedThorns said:
I don't think you're the only one, WT. It doesn't matter whether the country you live in has done anything 'bad' or not. This doesn't matter to these kinds of people, who just want to cause as much trouble as possible. Let's take Iceland as an example: loads of 'westerners' there - makes a perfect target.
abecedarian
Well-Known Member
CDA said:
That's right. Look at the Oklahoma City bombing. Who would have thought of such a thing in Oklahoma City of all places? And McVey drove through Wichita, down the turnpike just 8 miles east of me on his way down there. He was caught near the dinky little town of Perry Oklahoma..probably the biggest thing that ever happened there since the last land run. All it takes is an idiot with a mission and no regard for human life.
StillILearn
New Member
MonkeyCatcher said:StillI - thanks for the great article! I definitely want to watch this movie, and would probably not have heard of it if it wasn't for this article
Nope. No rule-breaking from us, MC.
Kenny Shovel
Active Member
If you look back at my posts in this thread you'll see that my main beef has been with the hypocrisy surrounding ‘The War on Terror’ and how we choose to define who we regard as terrorists depending on our own political worldview. Your post may or may not be an example of that.Ms. said:
Let’s look at this from a slightly different angle. Would an American President invite to the White House, for a day of celebration, senior members of what was seen as the political wing of Al-Qaeda? Especially when one of them has a conviction for attempting to import arms (ironically from America) and another for possession of 250 lb of explosives.
Negotiating settlements to complex political problems like Northern Ireland and the Middle East sometimes involve inviting people into your house you wouldn’t normally wish to be there; that’s all part of realpolitik.
However, if you are taking a very black and white, good v Evil, you can’t negotiate with terrorism approach; you have to expect that people will look at examples in the past when it has not been politically expedient for you to take such a hard-line.
Regards,
K-S