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Gun Control

abecedarian

abecedarian

Well-Known Member
Since Darren asked us to bring our gun control issues here, and I had a question, I thought I'd bite the bullet(sorry!) and get us started. Since we(my family and I) don't have an interest in gunmanship, I haven't had to think about what is involved in obtaining a gun permit, but I wonder what exactly goes into those required background checks. It seems to me, that since the checks are already required, why not go a step further and require some sort of mental health evaluation as well? I'm sure there are plenty of arguements against that idea, but if I were the mother of a young person who'd been killed, or had obtained a gun and used it to harm others, I'd be wondering about why my child was sold the gun..In the case of the most recent rampage, someone at the school was aware of this young man's instability..would a mental evaluation have possibly made a difference in this situation? It's pure guessing, but I do wonder.
 
I have some mixed feelings on this issue. I haven't fired a gun since using a BB gun to earn a marksmanship badge in boy scouts.:D We don't own guns and quite frankly, we don't have any desire to. abecedarian and and I live in a region where gun ownership is high. The high school football field is used for gun/hunter safety courses this time of year. I've passed former students with shotguns and high powered, scoped rifles. Yet, no one in my town has been shot, or in surrounding counties. These kids have been raised with values and as such, just haven't had gun issues like other places do. If you want gun violence, you have to check out Douglas county(i.e.-Omaha) Gun violence is a problem in poor, slow growth economic areas and in areas with some suburban mental issues(i.e.-Columbine in Boulder) In this regard, I feel that gun ownership isn't necessarily the problem, it's one of regulation.

The NRA has been the most irresponsible organization when it comes to the 2nd amendment. For one, this group opposed the ban on assault-styled weapons. I don't mind hunters, people who own shotguns, or people who are pistol enthusiasts. However, I don't believe people need to own AK-47s. Nor do I believe they have a constitutional right to own a .50 caliber gun that can punch holes through manhole lids and bring down choppers. Second, any meaningful background check or other federal program to monitor gun purchases has been opposed vehemently by the NRA. They'd rather see guns handed out like pancakes rather than regulated in a sensible way. If you have a domestic violence charge, if you've been diagnosed with a serious mental disorder, if you have a felony, you shouldn't own weapons-it's that simple. Lastly, the NRA downplays the second half of the second amendment. The "militia" comment is clearly speaking of the national guard. However, they think it applies to EVERYONE.

Does America have a gun problem? I'd say that it does, as regulations have been weakened or unenforced. My own state now has a carry-conceal bill passed into law. Anyone could be packing heat and you wouldn't know it. Standing in line at McDonald's?, the guy next to you might have a 9mm. Shopping at Wal-Mart?, the lady in front of you has a glock. I believe we need more regulations-anything the NRA opposes can't be all that bad. At the same time, you have never lived until you've had a friend show you how fun an M-16 can be had when you blow ground squirrels away in three round bursts. Talk about the fur flying!.:D
 
Interesting issue. SF, I completely agree that it is totally unneccesary for someone to own a high powered automatic weapon for hunting or 'defense' purposes. But then, I'm one of those lefty kooks who doesn't see the need for anyone to own a gun.

As for the mental health issue, I believe that there are many and varied resons that someone may pick up a gun and use it on a fellow human being. According to this document, the UK requires anyone applying for a gun licence to declare any mental health issues that have been diagnosed (it is from 1996, though). Of course, not everyone with mental health issues will have had them reliably diagnosed, particularly in Australia, where the mental health system is ridiculously underfunded and understaffed.

If you were to test for mental health issues before issuing a gun licence, you would have to cover not only the key DSM IV categories of risk (schizophrenia, antisocial personality disorder, conduct disorder, severe depression etc etc) but test for whether or not the individual is quick to anger, how impulsive they are, the levcel of social responsibility they feel and so on ad nauseum. This equates to a complete mental examination of evryone applying for a gun licence. Which is the ideal, but ludicrously unlikely. Anything less (i.e. the administration of a brief mental state exam), and you may as well not be doing any tests at all.

How long does a gun licence last, may I ask anyone who knows? Do you apply once, and hold it forever like a driver's licence? Is it seasonal/annual/whatever? This seems like the safer option to me.
 
Looks like he jumped through hoops to get his weapons-passed the background check clean.

On Feb. 9, Cho Seung Hui walked into a pawnshop on Main Street in Blacksburg, directly across the street from the Virginia Tech campus, and picked up one of the guns he would use in his deadly rampage Monday: a Walther .22-caliber pistol, a relatively inexpensive firearm most commonly used for target shooting or plinking cans.

One month later, on March 16, Cho stepped into Roanoke Firearms, a 3,000-square-foot, full-service gun dealer where more than 350 guns are on display. Cho offered his driver's license, a checkbook that showed a matching address and an immigration card.

Once an instant background check confirmed his clean criminal record, Cho had little else to do, other than pay $571, to become the legal owner of a Glock 19 and a box of 50 cartridges.
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Washington Post article

There were a few situations that set off some alarm bells, though it's hard to institutionalize someone because they're weird. He weirded out an English professor and wrote some sick, sick plays.source Perhaps there should be away whereby a person is referred to the counseling department and if they refuse analysis, they're kicked out and escorted off campus.
 
I also have mixed feelings on the issue. I think that banning guns completely is a very bad idea and will cause a rise in crime. Sort of like how banning alcohol increased the mafia's power in the twenties. But I don't think a private citizen needs to own a bazooka or something crazy like that. I think certain guns are banned for good reasons and it should stay that way.

There are stupid people who use guns in ways they weren't supposed to be used. There are people who make mistakes and go to shoot what they think is a burglar and wind up shooting their kids. There are people who didn't mean for the gun to go off. Quite honestly, we have a lot of the same problems with cars, but no one talks about banning all cars. We just place restrictions on who can use them.

I can totally understand why someone would think we need gun control, especially after an event like this. I'm really on the fence. But I also know that I like owning weapons. I use my knives and swords recreationally and I didn't plan to use them to kill anyone. But it sure is nice knowing that they're there if someone tries to break into my house. And I also know that there are people I would be terrified to let hold one of them. So I don't know. I'm just not sure where the lines need to be drawn on this issue.
 
Peronel said:
How long does a gun licence last, may I ask anyone who knows? Do you apply once, and hold it forever like a driver's licence? Is it seasonal/annual/whatever? This seems like the safer option to me.
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The short answer is it depends.

The long answer:

-Each state has the right to decide its own gun laws, provided they do not conflict with any federal regulations.
-The only kind of "gun licences" issued by the US gov't are to sell, or to possess "Class 3" weapons (suppressed, fully automatic, etc.)
-Very few states require the a person hold any type of licence before the purchase of a firearm.
-A criminal background check is required for all legal gun sales in the US.
-Several ststes have concealed hangun licences that will allow a person to not wait for the backgroud check, as the backgroud check is part of the licencing process.
-In Texas, for instance, licence holders must pass a written test regarding gun law, use of force laws, weapons safety, and peacful conflict resolution, a shooting test, have no felony convictions ever, and no Class A or B misdemeanors in the last 10 years. The licence lasts 4 years the first time, an six years for renewals. A renewal must pass the same written and shooting tests, and the criminal history is rechecked.
-For an in-depth look at any individual state's gun laws, see www.packing.org.
 
WAYNESBURG, Ky. -- Miss America 1944 has a talent that likely has never appeared on a beauty pageant stage: She fired a handgun to shoot out a vehicle's tires and stop an intruder.

Venus Ramey, 82, confronted a man on her farm in south-central Kentucky last week after she saw her dog run into a storage building where thieves had previously made off with old farm equipment.

Ramey said the man told her he would leave. "I said, 'Oh, no you won't,' and I shot their tires so they couldn't leave," Ramey said.

She had to balance on her walker as she pulled out a snub-nosed .38-caliber handgun.

"I didn't even think twice. I just went and did it," she said. "If they'd even dared come close to me, they'd be 6 feet under by now."

Ramey then flagged down a passing motorist, who called 911.

Curtis Parrish of Ohio was charged with misdemeanor trespassing, Deputy Dan Gilliam said. The man's hometown wasn't immediately available. Three other people were questioned but were not arrested.

After winning the pageant with her singing, dancing and comedic talents, Ramey sold war bonds and her picture was adorned on a B-17 that made missions over Germany in World War II, according to the Miss America Web site.

Ramey lived in Cincinnati for several years and was instrumental in helping rejuvenate Over-the-Rhine historic buildings. She returned to Kentucky in 1990 to live on her farm.

"I'm trying to live a quiet, peaceful life and stay out of trouble, and all it is, is one thing after another," she said.
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Bravo. Anchor.
 
Taking away guns from private citizens will do nothing but put more of them in danger. I have the right to protect myself and no one will take that away. The only thing they would do is make good citizens into criminals cuz I don't know one person who would give up their right to protect themselves just because the government doesn't want private citizens to have the right to carry firearms. This event is very unfortunate, but had the school not been a gun-free zone, many lives could have been saved if only one person in one of those classroom had a CHL and had been allowed to carry their weapon.

They make schools gun-free zones, so that the students, faculty, etc, cannot protect themselves, yet a student can keep guns in his dorm and carry them into classrooms and not get caught. I live in Texas and personally I wouldn't feel less safe because someone sitting next to me has a CHL and the right too carry a firearm. I actually think it would be good if they would arm the ROTC. They have the ability to properly train them and if they weren't in school they would be carrying weapons everyday anyway. The military is supposed to be there to protect us, so why not let them? Most colleges have ROTC. I think this is the best way to protect college students, because colleges have 25,000 students on and off campus all day. That is more difficult to regulate than a high school open from 8 - 3:30.

And Cho did have a mental evaluation. He passed. Maybe instead of worrying about gun laws, we should question the psych tests that evaluated him. Criminals will always have guns no matter what. And if it hadn't been a gun it would have been a bomb or something. And expelling him probably only would have made it happen sooner, and possibly made it worse.
 
AquaBlue said:
Do guns kill people or do people kill people?
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People kill people, but guns make it a hellava lot easier. Pulling a trigger is easy and clean compared to stabbing or strangling someone. Keeps your hands clean so to speak thereby reducing the horror of taking another life.
 
eclair said:
Pulling a trigger is easy and clean compared to stabbing or strangling someone.
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Or using a sword. My wife studied Korean sword fighting for six years and could lop off a head in about half-a-sec. I'd hate to clean up that home invasion, but I think swords are safer than guns.

She bopped me on the shoulder with a wooden practice sword once when we were dating. We were in a department store in the sports section and I asked her if she had used one before, and she told me about her lessons. I told her to hit me, and she said, 'Maybe gently'. I only felt it because I sure didn't see it.
 
There are such good and bad arguments on both sides, I'd feel comfortable taking either position.
Con:
Less gun violence; fewer gun accidents; fewer armed people around mean fewer people shot.
Pro:
People have a right to defend themselves; if criminals know the average citizen might be armed, they might think twice; guns are cool.
 
AquaBlue said:
Do guns kill people or do people kill people?
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The correct answer is guns make it so easy to kill. If you want to kill someone I'm sure you can run them over with your car, stab'em with a knife, strangle, poison, but the most convenient method is the gun. I held a 38 before. And guess what I felt: This thing is made for one purpose - and that is to kill another human being.
I know it is hard to get the guns off the streets now, since it is saturated. But, I'm sure the ghettos and all places would be safer (30-50 years down the line), if there was some method to slowly and little by little forbid gun ownership.
 
Most of you in the United States have probably already heard of what happened yesterday. A depressed 20 year old went to a shopping mall in Omaha and opened fire with an SKS assault rifle. He killed eight people and then turned the gun on himself. You can read about it here.:( A lot of folks are really shocked about this and are just shaking their heads.
 
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