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Is there a God?

Libra

Active Member
Remember to print out a few copies of the questionnaire.

I agree , VERY interesting Litany. From what I understood it is just left there , but a good read. I looked around the site a bit and realized that this person was a Christian and now is an Athiest.

I have more reading to do there.
 

Isabell

Active Member
There is no physical evidence whether or not God exists. Don't we call that blind faith?

(I posted this without reading what everyone wrote, so forgive me if someone else posted the same thing)
 

hockeycop

New Member
I’m not even through Genesis, and already there are examples of incest, forced sexual slavery, regular slavery, rape, falsely accused rape, polygamy and murder. Not to mention the indignant treatment of women.

If this wasn’t the bible, the book would be banned.
 

BeerWench13

Active Member
People fashion their God after their own understanding. They make their God first and worship him afterwards. -Oscar Wilde

This is an age-old question that is based on personal belief. One cannot prove or disprove it.

I completely respect the beliefs and opinions of anyone else on this subject. I just wish whole-heartedly that everyone else would do the same. There would be a great deal less hate and war in this world if we could all just agree to disagree and not try to force our personal beliefs on the rest of the population.
 

Libra

Active Member
I tried years ago to read it and it didn't work.

Growing up Christian, I personally have not pushed my beliefs upon others.

To each his own, if someone is fullfilled in there lives either way, believing in God, a tree , a rock or whatever it's everyones choice.
I am not a constant church goer and I have other Christians insult me cause I don't take my kids to communion every holiday.

A friend of mine years ago at 19, had a miscarrage( did I spell that right?) and she went to church for a special prayer. The first thing out of the priests mouth was "what sin did you comit?" Nobody could console her for a long time.It took her a long time to get rid of her guilt and put some of these hipocritical Christians in their place.

I believe like I said before , that through the years people, churches etc, just add their opinions and make it into "Gods" saying.

We "want" to believe, we can't handle the thought that this is it.

My life has been trying to raise my children to become respectful human beings, and not be scared of the "wrath of God"
 

BeerWench13

Active Member
I've read the Bible cover-to-cover, both testaments in 3 different languages. I find it to be an inspiring work and, if translated as I believe it was meant to be translated, teaches great moral basics. Of course, my first read of the KJV wasn't optional, but forced. I have sworn, since I reached what I call my "age of awareness", never to try to force anyone to believe something. Not only is it degrading to whatever they currently believe, but usually has the adverse effect and causes them to hate/reject the forced subject.

Religion is a whole other issue and one that I will try to avoid discussing. No, the belief in {insert name of Supreme Being here} is not the same as religion. Most organized religions teach hate, intolerance and prejudice. All of which this world already has entirely too much.
 

hockeycop

New Member
People can believe what they want to believe. I have no problem with that as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone, but when these religious beliefs are believed by our politicians and leaders, I definitely have a problem with that.

Policies in the 21st century shouldn’t be influenced based on an interpretation of a book written over before electricity.
 

Champagne

New Member
I'm less tolerant of the "we should respect other people's religious beliefs" idea than I used to be. I think Douglas Adams had a good point when he said, "Now, the invention of the scientific method and science is, I'm sure we'll all agree, the most powerful intellectual idea, the most powerful framework for thinking and investigating and understanding and challenging the world around us that there is, and that it rests on the premise that any idea is there to be attacked and if it withstands the attack then it lives to fight another day and if it doesn't withstand the attack then down it goes. Religion doesn't seem to work like that; it has certain ideas at the heart of it which we call sacred or holy or whatever. That's an idea we're so familiar with, whether we subscribe to it or not, that it's kind of odd to think what it actually means, because really what it means is 'Here is an idea or a notion that you're not allowed to say anything bad about; you're just not. Why not? - because you're not!' If somebody votes for a party that you don't agree with, you're free to argue about it as much as you like; everybody will have an argument but nobody feels aggrieved by it. If somebody thinks taxes should go up or down you are free to have an argument about it, but on the other hand if somebody says 'I mustn't move a light switch on a Saturday', you say, 'Fine, I respect that'. The odd thing is, even as I am saying that I am thinking 'Is there an Orthodox Jew here who is going to be offended by the fact that I just said that?' but I wouldn't have thought 'Maybe there's somebody from the left wing or somebody from the right wing or somebody who subscribes to this view or the other in economics' when I was making the other points. I just think 'Fine, we have different opinions'. But, the moment I say something that has something to do with somebody's (I'm going to stick my neck out here and say irrational) beliefs, then we all become terribly protective and terribly defensive and say 'No, we don't attack that; that's an irrational belief but no, we respect it'."

I think he's right when he says that religious beliefs get a free pass where other sorts of opinions are open to challenge and disagreement. I see stuff on discussion boards all the time along the lines of "my nephew was ill and the doctors gave up hope, but the people in church prayed for him and he got better. How can anyone say that God doesn't exist?" or "There was a terrible plane crash and hundreds of people died, but a baby survived, praise Jesus!" or "we were in a car crash, and even though the car was totalled we walked away without a scratch, which proves that God exists" or something. As soon as anyone comes along with "what about the kids in the hospital who don't survive?" "What about all the people on the plane who died?" "What about the people who don't survive car crashes?", it's made very clear that these responses are out of line because you have to respect people's religious beliefs.

It's the same with some of the religious sportsmen and the "Jesus was watching over me" line when they win. I've noticed that so far nobody's asked Zach Johnson, "where was Jesus this week, Zach?" when he doesn't make the cut at a golf tournament, and the same is true of a lot of team sports. Apparently it would be rude or hurtful or intolerant or something for people to point out the essential illogic of these claims.

If someone wants to say that a baby or puppy survived and therefore God exists, but if a baby or puppy doesn't survive, it doesn't mean God doesn't exist, or if Jesus is looking out for them when they win a tournament but Jesus can't be mentioned when they don't, it seems that they're allowed a free pass to get away with that contorted logic and the rest of us had better just deal with it. I don't think that's fair or appropriate or even healthy. I know people find comfort in religious belief and I don't like seeing aggressive attempts at deconversion, but that shouldn't mean that these beliefs can't be challenged.
 

hockeycop

New Member
Some good points Champagne. If a scientific theory is put forward, no one has any issues about challenging it, it's even expected, but religions get a free ride.

The problem is, how do you go from our current society to a secular one without millions of people dying.
 

St. Stephen

kickbox
I believe there is a God.

And I also believe one reason why Christianity is so unappealing, if you will, is that the majority of Christians are hypocrites.. I mean look at the antebellum south. They valued slaves as trash and yet went to church every Sunday. Look at Huckleberry Finn... the people molded Christianity to fit their despicable customs. They hated people they had never encountered people before. And if they're going to heaven, I agree, I would have no hesitation in going to hell.

In my opinion, if you're trying to decide if there is a God or not, you need to keep away from organized religion unless you can find a decent church that is free of these technicalities. Don't look at the people who use the Jesus or God card to be racists or back their candidate. They aren't the authentic believers.
 

BeerWench13

Active Member
Well stated, Stephen. That's basically my viewpoint on organized religion in a nutshell.

P.S. Did you get your name from the Dead song by chance?
 

hockeycop

New Member
Finished Deuteronomy, now I need a break. If there is a god, he certainly isn't the one as described in the first 4 books of the Old Testiment.
 

Mo'

New Member
I myself don't believe in god as much as I don't believe in UFO's or ghosts. They do make for some great reading though. I have never tried to dissuade anyone from believing. I also have respect for their beliefs as it is their right as humans to be entitled to them.
 

xxGOLDENxx

Member
I personally believe in some sort of supreme being, call it as you will; however I can't bring myself to accept some sort of religion. Whether it be the Bible, the Torah, or the Koran; facts can be changed, and books rewritten. All religions use fear and meaningless protocall to keep believers down and ignorant. All through the course of history these "holy" books have been edited and edited, to please the powers of the day; and keep them held up.
 

Libra

Active Member
I personally believe in some sort of supreme being, call it as you will; however I can't bring myself to accept some sort of religion. Whether it be the Bible, the Torah, or the Koran; facts can be changed, and books rewritten. All religions use fear and meaningless protocall to keep believers down and ignorant. All through the course of history these "holy" books have been edited and edited, to please the powers of the day; and keep them held up.


I agree with you. Man made religion, thay add ,they take away they edit and so on.
 

SFG75

Well-Known Member
I personally believe in some sort of supreme being, call it as you will; however I can't bring myself to accept some sort of religion. Whether it be the Bible, the Torah, or the Koran; facts can be changed, and books rewritten. All religions use fear and meaningless protocall to keep believers down and ignorant. All through the course of history these "holy" books have been edited and edited, to please the powers of the day; and keep them held up.


Very well put-your comment shows precisely why people are still "spiritual" or who are agnostic, but not hard core atheists. The fault lies in the realm of theology and the failure of mainline organized churches being able to communicate intelligently or reasonably with people.
 
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