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Someone tell me this.

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Kookamoor

New Member
Phew! I just got through the 14 pages of this thread and I must say that there's a lot of things to consider. If I may summarise:

1. The tone of the forum has changed.

I have only been here 7 months, yet I agree with you. It's not so much the spamming, but the hostility towards particular members, and generated by other members. Not only is it uncomfortable at times, but I'm concerned that new members or members who are sensitive to such conflict will be put off.

The answer: self regulation. It's been said time and again, but unfortunately at the moment many of the members, particularly those most welcoming and accommodating of new members, are themselves not frequenting some of the more serious threads and thus are not there to step in and say, 'You are being rude. You've stepped over the line.' Which leads me to point number 2.

2. People are intimidated/put off posting in the book-related threads and more serious chats by hostility/ perceived elitism/grammar nazis etc.

This has *got* to change! There should be no reason for anyone to feel uncomfortable posting on any thread in the forum, with the possible exception of the Writers Showcase, where you are putting your work out for the world to see.

There is a difference between criticising a book and critisising a reader of that book - this line seems to have been blurred recently. While you may feel passionately about why you enjoy/despise a particular book or author, there is no need to harp on about it. And just because one particular member professes to enjoy every book that Dan Brown ever wrote, there is no need to pidgeon-hole that member and critisise their taste in every subsequent post.

There is so much said on this form about the evils of censorship, but what many of you do with your thoughtless critisism of people's taste in reading is effectively silence those members whom you can bully into thinking that the books they read are tripe. Not everyone enjoys an argument, and not everyone wants to intersperece their thoughts on a particular story with justification for why the book should ever have been published in the first place. By all means say, "I really didn't like the way it was written, because.... I think xxx by xxx was a far better representation of this genre. You should give it a try". This is constructive. On the other hand, "I would rather beat my head with a blunt object than read another word of this hack author's offering" is not.

In the interests of getting people posting about books again, I have started up this thread. Perhaps this will be a 'safe' way for people to get back in posting about books, and more importantly, feeling comfortable about doing so.

3. Things change over time, just as this forum has.

This forum is constantly evolving, and member's priorities change. That cannot be helped. However if the forum is not going in the direction you want it to then for goodness sake say something! I applaude Martin for starting this thread and telling us that something has been irking him. I think this is an excellent therapy session for us all, and a chance to vent our spleens about what we perceive to be different/better or less than appealing.

So if things aren't going the way you wish, then do something about it. I particularly like what Ell had to say, and I think it's something we all need to consider:
Ell said:
Take back the boards and make them into what you want.
 

mr_michel

kickbox
ruach said:
I don't see anyone giving anyone any shit when English isn't their first language.
well actually i had been attacked because of my bad english and grammar
(yes english is not my native language)

chewlianchillz said:
anybody could tell me how long is this forum? I don't know much as I just joined just now...
november 2001, but i believe i have read there was another forum before that date, and it move to this domain.
probably ell could answer better
 

Martin

Active Member
This thread could be closed now, because Kook, my dear friend, you said it all. Excellent, excellent post.
 

Kaz

New Member
I second that, Mr Michel. English is my second language as BSL (Britsih Sign Language) is my first language. I don't mind someone encourage me to point incorrect english, not critized which aren't help.
 

sirmyk

New Member
Great summary, Kook. Too bad I read through about ten pages of posts to catch up before stumbling over your post.
 

Wabbit

New Member
Unfortunately voting is pointless since it is up to Darren who is chosen to be moderator. He is still busy at the moment. It is recognised we need new moderators and I am sure some will be appointed soon.
 

mehastings

Active Member
Wow. I guess I missed a huge discussion here. For once I agree with Martin. I have been here for less than six months and I even notice a change. I joined this forum because I wanted to talk about books. I didn't join so I would have a place to discuss other, more random topics. However, that has changed. I enjoy posting in GC because there are a lot of good discussions there. There's also the opportunity to be silly somethimes, which is fine too. One of the things I enjoy is people's differing opinions. For example, look at Robert's post. He thought people might consider his posting hostile. I disagree with most everything Robert says in GC. We would never be buddies in the real world. However, I haven't found a single time that he was disrespectful of another member.

I don't particularly care for the bullying behavior though. There is a BIG difference between being abrupt or a "grump" (as Stewart has proclaimed himself) and just being a plain jerk. It isn't something we just have to "accept" as some have indicated. We had that poll about trolls. Ten people responded that they thought there was a problem with trolls, yet just about nobody felt comfortable enough to post about it. There's a lot of name calling in GC. I've seen members called idiots, illiterate, fucktards, tools, trolls and any number of other names. Then there are the names people outside the forum are called just because we don't agree with decisions they have made. We constantly talk about how we need to "self police" ourselves, yet it never happens. I entirely agree with Ice that there is a lot of work for the moderators. There are only five of them (other than Darren), and one of them hasn't been here for months. Plus, Darren isn't around much either. Hopefully, this will be re-evaluated and there will be new mods soon.

I'm entirely with Ronny on the book discussions. I don't post there because I don't want to deal with the hostility certain members seem to enjoy injecting into book discussions. It's OK to dislike something and to express that opinion. However, there is NO NEED to tell people that they are ignorant, illiterate or mindless for reading something you don't like. I don't like King, but I don't feel the need to jump into every King thread and tell the people who read them that they are idiots. I've read Dan Brown and JK Rowling. They're nothing special, but some people like them. That doesn't make those people illiterate.

I also agree with some of the other points brought up. Repeat threads are annoying. We really don't need a half dozen Dan Brown threads. It would be nice if they could be merged if they are caught. Spelling and grammar are an issue. We have a lot of multi-lingual folks here and their english might not be as good as mine. I really don't think that should stop them from posting here. However, for the rest of us, there's nothing wrong with looking over your post before you post it. Not only will you catch silly grammar/spelling/typing errors, but you might also catch yourself posting something you shouldn't. I always do this, and it has stopped me from posting many knee-jerk reaction type posts with negative remarks in them.


**Sorry if this is all repetative. I started this post a couple hours ago and came back to it, so I missed everything after noonish. Kook, I also agree with you!
 

ruach

New Member
sirmyk said:
But then other threads get started showing avatar cutouts of members crucified on a cross, and it stays up for days an(sic) days.
I’m sorry I missed this post earlier. Maybe you don’t have all the facts…this is the second time you’ve jumped to a conclusion. We had Ya Krunk’d’s permission to use his avatar.

Kookamoor said:
There should be no reason for anyone to feel uncomfortable posting on any thread in the forum, with the possible exception of the Writers Showcase, where you are putting your work out for the world to see.
So you’ve never been timid, ever? You either get over it or you don’t, but the we should not have to pander to the meek.

Kookamoor said:
There is so much said on this form about the evils of censorship, but what many of you do with your thoughtless critisism of people's taste in reading is effectively silence those members whom you can bully into thinking that the books they read are tripe.
Are there not issues with someone who is so easily moved? These people that you refer to as bullies, then in turn get bullied by those with power—are you with me so far?—but then it justified because it is the view of the majority…do you fail to see that by silencing anyone, for any reason, is censorship?

Kookamoor said:
Not everyone enjoys an argument, and not everyone wants to intersperece their thoughts on a particular story with justification for why the book should ever have been published in the first place. By all means say, "I really didn't like the way it was written, because.... I think xxx by xxx was a far better representation of this genre. You should give it a try". This is constructive. On the other hand, "I would rather beat my head with a blunt object than read another word of this hack author's offering" is not.

This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. On the hand it is all right to say something is good or bad. It is all right to say it’s good or bad, and justify it. But it is not all right to add emphasis in a negative fashion. Is that right?

mr_michel said:
well actually i had been attacked because of my bad english and grammar
(yes english is not my native language)
I’m sorry you were attacked. First are you sure you were being attacked and not corrected? If are, okay. If I saw the post and felt that you were being attacked I would have come to your defense, but alas I was not there.

mehastings said:
I don't particularly care for the bullying behavior though. There is a BIG difference between being abrupt or a "grump" (as Stewart has proclaimed himself) and just being a plain jerk. It isn't something we just have to "accept" as some have indicated.
I’m a jerk and proud of it. What is the difference between a member expressing their view with words and a mod expressing their view with a warning and banning? Isn’t it still bullying?

mehastings said:
We had that poll about trolls. Ten people responded that they thought there was a problem with trolls, yet just about nobody felt comfortable enough to post about it. There's a lot of name calling in GC. I've seen members called idiots, illiterate, fucktards, tools, trolls and any number of other names.
So it is all right to call members trolls, grammar nazis and elitists (by a mod, too boot) but it isn’t okay for me to call someone a wanker? Why? How is one more abusive than another?

mehastings said:
I entirely agree with Ice that there is a lot of work for the moderators. There are only five of them (other than Darren), and one of them hasn't been here for months. Plus, Darren isn't around much either. Hopefully, this will be re-evaluated and there will be new mods soon.
I know being a mod isn’t a fun job, but they did sign up for it so aren’t worthy of pity. I’m sure more mods will make things even clearer, that’s tounge-in-cheek in case you missed it. The mods we have now, need to be consistent in their actions and set an example.

mehastings said:
… I don't post there because I don't want to deal with the hostility certain members
I once took time out of my day to post something for you, but you couldn’t return the favor by looking at it and I found that to be quite hostile. My point, look at yourself before you judge others.
 

Wabbit

New Member
Ruach, this is a private forum and it has it's rules and you will abide by those rules. This is a friendly forum and we can all get along without resorting to name calling.

Moderators are not bullies any more than the cops are bullies. We are here to "pander" to the weak and those that do not have a voice. We are here to protect the forum.
 

Ya Krunk'd Floo

New Member
Wabbit said:
Ruach, this is a private forum and it has it's rules and you will abide by those rules. This is a friendly forum and we can all get along without resorting to name calling.

Moderators are not bullies any more than the cops are bullies. We are here to "pander" to the weak and those that do not have a voice. We are here to protect the forum.

Woa! Now my eyes are peeled like a ready-to-eat orange! You guys are like Superman and ruach is like Lex Luthor! Who will win? Good? Evil? A grey inbetween?

On a less jocular note, I do believe ruach is merely highlighting the discrepancy that exists between those who feel mollycoddling is a way of life and those who would rather remain true to the lexicon of their real feelings. This is not to say that people should be allowed to indulge in simple name-calling, but rather that if someone disagrees with a particular post, they should be perfectly free to express this malcontent.

'Semantics' is a word and 'opinions' are diamonds, but let's not forget about the quality of the carats, eh wabbit?
 

Irene Wilde

New Member
Martin said:
What the hell happened to this place over the last six months? Where did it go wrong? Where did the downward spiral begin, and where, if anywhere, will it end?

Anyone?

For 15 pages, I have resisted, but it's hot and I'm tired and I need something to cheer me up so here goes:

Are you rabble-rousing there, Martin!?! :D

Don't worry, my padded cell will be mended soon and I'll be returning to it gladly. :D
 
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