So you solve that by keeping the children out of the classroom?
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Teaching Christianity in the Public Schools...
- Thread starter -Carlos-
- Start date
So you solve that by keeping the children out of the classroom?
Now, now. Let's keep it civil and respectful.
For what it's worth, I'd never send my kids to public school and that is for non-religious reasons.
For what it's worth, I'd never send my kids to public school and that is for non-religious reasons.
Libra
Active Member
I don't want anybody at school or anywhere else to tell me what religion I am going to teach my child. I hate also the people that run to church every Sunday and look down at me that I don't and go gossip about it. anyways, I would love for my kids to be open to learning about other human being's cultures and religions.
I would love to have a class, like Litany said to talk about different religions but even that I can see would be hard, and with problems. Arguments would arise.
Here in French schools we have two choices, protestant (I think) or moral class, I chose moral for my kids.
My son went to Greek school also that taught our religion and ofcourse other subjects too, my daughter did not want to go so I didn't push it.
Even though my son knows a bit more about what it is to be Greek Orthodox, I don't think my daughter will be less of a caring human being. Respecting others and their choice of religion and where they are taught (home/church or wherever) is most important.
Don't be so sure that if you send your child to private is always the best.
I would love to have a class, like Litany said to talk about different religions but even that I can see would be hard, and with problems. Arguments would arise.
Here in French schools we have two choices, protestant (I think) or moral class, I chose moral for my kids.
My son went to Greek school also that taught our religion and ofcourse other subjects too, my daughter did not want to go so I didn't push it.
Even though my son knows a bit more about what it is to be Greek Orthodox, I don't think my daughter will be less of a caring human being. Respecting others and their choice of religion and where they are taught (home/church or wherever) is most important.
Don't be so sure that if you send your child to private is always the best.
joderu95
New Member
Good for you. I think many people concern themselves with what would be tainted in government with religion mixing in too much. Fanatical Christians ought to worry about what their religion might look like with government intruding that direction. The point is if government and religion mix both are going to be altered.
sparkchaser said:
Don't give up on public education just yet. It needs overhauling but there are school districts out there that still have their stuff together.
Snippety
New Member
I am a Norse Tradition Pagan here in the UK. I agree with children being given an overview of all religions in a historical or literary context, but not with one particular religion being taught as truth. I also disagree with religious assemblies and worship as part of school life, as in my dim & distant schooldays. :lol:
I am a stay at home mum and we are planning to home ed our son (still only 13 months) until secondary school age when he can decide if he wants to attend school or continue to study at home. It isn't our faith that has led to this decision (although it is a big part of family life) it's the standards of education and the focus on testing in UK schools.
We live our life in a particular way - no alcohol, no drugs, no nicotine, no meat. I follow the Nine Noble Virtues as my moral code. I don't want my son exposed to sex, cigarettes, booze, knives and the rest, or intensive testing before he's old enough to have the confidence to stand alone and make his own decisions.
I am a stay at home mum and we are planning to home ed our son (still only 13 months) until secondary school age when he can decide if he wants to attend school or continue to study at home. It isn't our faith that has led to this decision (although it is a big part of family life) it's the standards of education and the focus on testing in UK schools.
We live our life in a particular way - no alcohol, no drugs, no nicotine, no meat. I follow the Nine Noble Virtues as my moral code. I don't want my son exposed to sex, cigarettes, booze, knives and the rest, or intensive testing before he's old enough to have the confidence to stand alone and make his own decisions.
Libra
Active Member
tZar
New Member
I'm teaching maths and English right now, but have been teaching religion and history as well for some years.
I do not believe in keeping my biases out of the classroom. I tell my students what party I vote for and that I believe that socialism is the best way to run a country, that I am a christian, that I smoke marijuana (which is illegal for some strange reason), I drink and smoke and a whole lot more... I tell them this when they ask or if we have a subject which involves politics or any related subjects where my opinion would be biased. Also, This makes me aware of my own prejudice and thereby allows for me to take them into account, and not let them dictate or overrule any other opinion.
It is not that big of a problem for me, and when they do improv games in maths or English they often make fun of me, which I find hilarious :lol:
As abecedarian, it is about letting the students know and giving them the chance to participate in dialogue (not discussion, as they imply a winner and a loser!) about our themes.
In Denmark the religious teaching in schools are actually called 'Christianity' but it is not allowed for the teacher to preach, we are to teach about , christianity (in relation to Danish history and culture) and we also teach about other religious views.
The local debate at the moment is about changing the name of the class from 'Christianity' to 'Religion' to more clearly indicate that it is in fact teaching about different religious views, with special attention to Danish religious history and culture (hence presently 'Christianity').
-tZar
Snippety
New Member
I'm willing to take the risk
It worries me that in school kids are forced into an unnatural social structure formed only of their peers for most of the day. By home education my son will have a much wider experience of different types and ages of people with different opinions, rather than this atmosphere of peer pressure where being different is a bad thing. There's a really good support network for home education where I live and I've already met some amazingly confident, articulate and inspiring children. I think that religious issues aside I would still be doing this. My son will learn about any faith he's interested in, although he will celebrate the festivals with us until he's old enough to have a choice.
I wouldn't mind if he wanted to take up a different faith to us. I feel I have more in common with other faiths than with those with no spiritual leanings at all. I just don't want any religion delivered to him as fact by the same people who are telling him "real" facts - like the laws of gravity and the times tables. I believe in questioning everything and frequently question my own faith and spiritual path. I think that's healthy.
Libra
Active Member
I'm willing to take the risk
There's a really good support network for home education where I live and I've already met some amazingly confident, articulate and inspiring children. I think that religious issues aside I would still be doing this. My son will learn about any faith he's interested in, although he will celebrate the festivals with us until he's old enough to have a choice.
I wouldn't mind if he wanted to take up a different faith to us. I feel I have more in common with other faiths than with those with no spiritual leanings at all. I just don't want any religion delivered to him as fact by the same people who are telling him "real" facts - like the laws of gravity and the times tables. I believe in questioning everything and frequently question my own faith and spiritual path. I think that's healthy.
I was secluded (went to school and came back, not allowed friends etc) when I was growing up, when I left my fathers home at 15 and went to live with my grandmother, a whole new world opened up for me and my curiousity
led me to wonder where the heck I was living. That is why I asked.
Sometimes when we overprotect and we don't allow some experiences ,kids tend to go overboard.
We (all parents) are hoping the choices we make are the best for our kids.
SFG75
Well-Known Member
Abecedarian mentioned that many people of faith feel that the public schools are antithetical to their own beliefs. I find it interesting that when it comes to faith, schools are to be fair and impartial; yet, personal bias and a liberal perspective are often times encouraged and pushed. The fact that you feel socialism is the best way to go and that you openly discuss your marijuana usage with students, is evidence of that IMHO. I don't agree with what you do, but I realize that you live in another country. I'm sure you are a fine teacher and that you know your subject area well. At the same time, many parents want not only a proper education for their children, but a moral education as well. Generally speaking in America, private is better. Large public school systems are losing students. Denver Public Schools doesn't enroll around 20,000 children as parents pay out of pocket for private education. A lot of parents do not feel that the public education system is rigorous enough and that while their values are to be parked at the door, it's social experimentation time regarding bias and liberal propaganda.
My children will be attending a private Lutheran pre-school that we will pay for out of pocket(our tax money should go to where they go to school, but that's a whole 'nuther topic in and of itself) We made that decision as the facilities, faculty, core education curriculum, and values were superior to that of the public school. The public school's pre-school program is a joint venture with a government supported "head start" program where kids are scored based on their parents having a low income(the less money you make, the greater chances of getting "in" and receiving support) We would've been crazy to enroll him in THAT program instead of the private one.
I'd be interested to read your definition of "a moral education" and, on the basis of what you have implied here, why a 'liberal' education cannot be "moral".
So, a 'land of opportunity' – if mummy and daddy can afford it.
SFG75
Well-Known Member
What it is not, is when a "liberally educated" person shares their drug and personal life experiences with students. Now cultures are different and perhaps that is the norm elsewhere. Here in the states, Christian parents do not feel that the public schools reflect the appropriate values. Examples listed from who I was posting reflect that to a "t."
$100.00 a semester per child isn't all that bad, people pay more for their sneakers and gameboxes on average.
Though you're right, it is more expensive when your tax dollars don't go to the educational option that you prefer for your children, in that regard, it is a burden.:whistling:I didn't suggest it was
But you're exceptionally naive if you think that one example, anecdotally posted on a message board, is 'liberal' education per se.Ah. So it's the religious thing again. Got it. This is the old 'you can't be good – 'moral' – without believing in some invisible, unprovable being in the sky' argument.
Are your prisons all full of atheists, by the way?
So, you state that someone here is wrong for (apparently) telling students their beliefs (and I don't necessarily disagree with you on this point – although telling them what someone believe is not the same as saying that they should believe the same) – but you just want your (unprovable, unscientific) beliefs taught to children as fact, eh? Not a lot of difference really, is there?
To my mind, a 'liberal' education teaches young people to think. It helps them to develop their critical faculties.
I can see, however, how that might upset some people who, like Martin Luther, think that should actively be discouraged, since "reason is the devil's whore".
... $100.00 a semester per child isn't all that bad, people pay more for their sneakers and gameboxes on average.
Would that be "isn't all that bad" for someone with children in, say, the wreckage of New Orleans or a ghetto in New York?
Here's another one: I've just been watching a documentary on UK TV about Charles Darwin. In it, a teacher at a "reputable" school in the north of England was interviewed. This individual taught chemistry (a science discipline). However, he also believed that the Earth was less than 10,000 years old (in spite of the evidence to the contrary), and actually taught these sort of things in a general studies class that he also took.
How on earth can someone be permitted to do such a thing?
This is exactly why I fear we in the UK heading (slowly but surely) in the same basic direction as the US – in our case, fear of 'upsetting' people means that others are terrified of confronting the sort of rank stupidity mentioned above.
How on earth can someone be permitted to do such a thing?
This is exactly why I fear we in the UK heading (slowly but surely) in the same basic direction as the US – in our case, fear of 'upsetting' people means that others are terrified of confronting the sort of rank stupidity mentioned above.
savvyambrose
New Member
That certainly is shocking - you mean he taught it as fact, or told them it was what he believed?
Having just graduated from high school, I wouldn't mind being taught Christianity (I'm not a religious person at all) - but only in the sense of it being part of history, and only if we learned about other major religions, not as a side-by-side subject to evolution. There is science and then there is religion - to me, if you are so set about your own children learning Christianity, then why not teach it yourself? A school should have no part in the matter.
Well said. As has been mentioned earlier, of course schools should teach about religion – in the sense of comparative religion. But, apart from anything else, to teach a specific creed as fact in a school should not be the state's business and is divisive.
In answer to your earlier question, the teacher concerned said that he was putting forward creationism views in general studies classes.
I'm still curious as to why SFG75 seems to think that one set of opinions shouldn't be allowed in schools – but another set should.
Robert
Active Member
I agree 100% with SFG75. In my opinion, a liberal education doesn't teach young people to think, it teaches them what to think. A liberal education cannot teach morality because morality has been replaced by political correctness much the same way it was done in Hitler's Germany.
joderu95
New Member
My thoughts exactly. This is something I've had to wrestle with ever since I became a parent and time after time I've seen examples where many of the maladjusted kids are overly protected.
Sybarite said:
I agree. The problem is in the U.S. that word has been perverted by right-wing radio and other media and is now used almost exclusively as a pejorative.
Ah. So all those teachers telling children that evolution is nonsense and God created the world in seven days, about 6,000 years ago, are 'liberals'.
I get it now.
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
You should try stand up, because that's hilarious.
See the post I've quoted just above.
I have to say, I love the idea of "political correctness" being the root cause of Nazism and, by implication, the Holocaust.
PS: Robert, thanks for so adroitly illustrating my – and indeed joderu's – point. It was most generous of you.
Are there really so many of these nutters that they warrant "all those"?
I must admit I have never met or seen any such teachers (but I am not American and frankly I can't put up with Dawkin's diatribes so I couldn't sit through the Darwin programs).