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Another shooting in american uni

Litany said:
Who died and elected you pope?
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I don't mean to be rude (honest), but why do you seem to "stick up" for eyez? You can't tell me he doesn't say the occasional, well - to put it bluntly; douche bag remark.
 
Personally I think he's a twat but I think the witch hunts on this place whenever someone dares to go against public consensus are far more harmful. The world doesn't shut up just because someone made a tasteless joke. And who gets to decide what's tasteless anyway? I neither need nor want SFG75 speaking on my behalf. He doesn't own the forum so why does he get to decide what the forum wants? Eyez is a member of the forum too, and clearly he also wants something different to SFG75.

There are an equivalent number of children and teenagers dying every week in America from gun shootings. What makes this particular bunch sacrosanct?
 
Litany said:
Personally I think he's a twat but I think the witch hunts on this place whenever someone dares to go against public consensus are far more harmful. The world doesn't shut up just because someone made a tasteless joke. And who gets to decide what's tasteless anyway? I neither need nor want SFG75 speaking on my behalf. He doesn't own the forum so why does he get to decide what the forum wants? Eyez is a member of the forum too, and clearly he also wants something different to SFG75.

There are an equivalent number of children and teenagers dying every week in America from gun shootings. What makes this particular bunch sacrosanct?
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I hope you're not asking me these questions as I've said nothing about the incident except for that it was unfortunate and that I found eyez's original remark rude as hell (which it was), and that I couldn't give a shit how satirical he wanted to be at said time. I personally don't care whose lives are taken away; point blank, today, 33 innocent people were killed, and 33 innocent families shattered.

I'm not justifying the sovereign over-attention many crimes get. Personally, I think everyone needs to shut the hell up about 9/11 as every single day, in some Third World Country, a higher body count arises. I don't need Bush littering good channels every single September 11th with half hour speeches about how many innocent lives were lost that unfaithful day. The Earthquake last year in Pakistan, which killed thousands, was in my news for a week, you? It does not matter who is killed, my heart goes out to them and their families. So, to answer your question: nothing. Nothing makes this particular bunch of people sacrosanct.
 
mcilroga said:
...today, 33 innocent people were killed, and 33 innocent families shattered.
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*sends telepathic permission slip for post*

Probably not the best time to say it.. but I thought I would point out that as it stands, out of the 33 confirmed dead, 32 were innocent, 1 was the gun man himself.
 
tartan_skirt said:
I thought I would point out that as it stands, out of the 33 confirmed dead, 32 were innocent, 1 was the gun man himself.
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But, at the same time, unless the gunman's family were responsible in the planning of this event, then they are also innocent. So it remains at 33.

Regarding the US gun laws, there's no point talking about it. Things aren't going to change. The whole thing hangs on the outdated Second Amendment which grants Americans the right to keep and bear arms. What they seem to forget, however, is that it was an "amendment" which means that it can be amended again and the reason for it being created was to repel British invaders of which, 200-odd years down the line, there are no longer any of. The Republicans won't want to lose out on guns because they are assholes and the Democrats won't want to lose out on guns because that would court controversy and they need to poach all the votes they can from hick states in order to have a chance at the White house next year.
 
Catalyst said:
I saw the post count on here and thought, good an actual converstation and debate on gun laws in america. I look and see mainly drivel. Sigh.
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I really don't have much to say on the gun laws, but I was expecting a bit more discussion on the sheer idiocy of the security surrounding the shootings. The school was already supposed to be on alert because of bomb threats and a previous shooting incident on the first day of term, yet there was little warning in the 2 hours it took for the attack to begin for a second time and 30 more people were killed because of it. (Guns had been banned on the campus at the time.) Students even jumped out of windows because they had no idea what was going on (and I think 2 people died this way).

Stewart said:
But, at the same time, unless the gunman's family were responsible in the planning of this event, then they are also innocent. So it remains at 33.
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I was more refering to the "33 innocent people", but still..

Here in the UK the tabloids are grabbing at what information they can surrounding it maybe possibly being a "domestic" incident. Online I've seen so much speculation on the matter that it is just stupid. Some of the possibilities I've read so far include:

1. It started off as a fight between the shooter and his girlfriend.
2. It was some maniac a bit early on a Columbine anniversary.
3. It was something to do with The Day of Silence (which is pure speculation indeed because the person who brought this up thought that it was Virginia Tech that had first organised the event, when it was actually the University of Virginia).
4. The shooter was an Asian Nationalist.

Then of course there have been people pushing the usual bad home, influences of games/books/films, bullying, etc., reasonings.

As a final note, is it just me that is wondering why the feck the Queen is going for a little visit? :confused:
 
Litany said:
Personally I think he's a twat but I think the witch hunts on this place whenever someone dares to go against public consensus are far more harmful. The world doesn't shut up just because someone made a tasteless joke. And who gets to decide what's tasteless anyway? I neither need nor want SFG75 speaking on my behalf. He doesn't own the forum so why does he get to decide what the forum wants? Eyez is a member of the forum too, and clearly he also wants something different to SFG75.

There are an equivalent number of children and teenagers dying every week in America from gun shootings. What makes this particular bunch sacrosanct?
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So you agree that his comments weren't the wisest, on that account we agree. The rest is emotional baggage from another forum that you are on concerning me. You should admit that first thing. I wasn't the first person to call him out, I was the second-so evidently, there is some precedent there. "Consensus" is irrelevant here as compared to what was posted. It's one thing to blame guns, it's quite another to say that you could live with more shootings. If you agree, then agree and leave it at that. If you disagree, then state the reasons why that commment wasn't so uncalled for. If you have a gripe about me that is not related to this board(as you obviously do) then take it there.

As for the topic at hand-I think people are more likely to give different reasons for this. If he had psychological issues, that will gain most of the attention and subsequent blame. Gun proliferation is more than regulated in the U.S. The pro-gun lobby will point that out and state that you can't disarm the population due to the actions of what one nut does.
 
But isn't the point that it's not just "one single nut"? I thought the statistics posted by Litany were interesting - and that's just "children and teenagers". In total, 10,100 people were intentionally killed by firearms in the US in 2005 - on average, 27 people every day. That's an awful lot of one nuts.
 
Its a load of bollocks really. The answer to the gun problem is to get more guns to people so they can protect themselves against the people who had guns in the first place. No offence to americans on here but one day you'l all end up shooting each other.
One person who died was a lecturer who was a holocaust surviver. What a way to go after surviving that. He tried to protect his students by holding hte door shut but got shot through hte door.
The shooter was a korean student. 25 i think.
 
Freya and Litany: I've removed your irrelevent chit-chat from this thread. Please keep this very serious issue on topic.

If people want to discuss gun-laws, please do so within the Mature Discussions forum where politics can be discussed. If you need access to the Mature Discussions forum, please see here.

Thank you.
 
One of my friends had a cousin at Virginia Tech. She was really scared. Her cousin is fine, but she was so scared yesterday. I can't imagine what that must be like.

The school got freaked, which I guess is a good time since they finally had one of those lock-down drills they've been saying we need to have since Columbine. We all hid against a wall while the teacher locked the door. Still, it's nice to know what we're supposed to be doing. We have at least two tornado drills and fire drills and one earthquake drill a year. But this is the first time I can ever remember them doing this.
 
My relative was a cop. While answering a domestic disturbance, he knocked on the front door, and a man shoved a shotgun in his face and fired. It killed him in the line of duty. Another relative was cleaning an "unloaded" gun, and shot his own stomach. He was fat so he survived. Right about now, you are probably thinking that I am anti-gun. Far from it. Study your history. Not to many years ago, it was common for a
BOY to go hunting in the woods. Audie Murphy, WWII's greatest hero(that we know of) grew up hunting for food. It is not about the guns or the easy access of guns. See, men like to blame everyone and anything else but themselves for their own sin. Some of you are tuning out now, right? Before guns it was swords, and after guns it will be atomic bombs or something.

Did you hear about the guy who drove his car into a daycare? Man, I guess we should severely limit cars. Car violence. Car deaths. Car shows. Do you get my point. It is never the object. The object is only as dangerous as the wielder of it. Google city statistics. Look up Washington, D.C., Chicago, and other places that break the law, true law, to make certain guns "illegal." You will find a sharp incline in violence and of all things, crimes involving guns. Australia recently banned nearly all guns. What happened? Crime went up 400%! Literally. Some guy in this board was mentioning the changes in London, and how they got rid of certain guns. Yeah, and now knife violence has risen.

The shooters at Colombine broke about 18 laws to do what they did. Oh yeah, and they killed kids. Do you really think they would obey one more law? Oh, but right about now some of you are saying, "But if they didn't have access to those guns, because of stricter gun legislation..." What? And criminals won't continue to sells guns on the streets? If we pass further gun laws, then regular citizens will not be able to defend themselves or you, some citizens will become "criminals" by ignoring those laws, and the criminals will still have access, and the price will go up. To pay for them, they will have to steal more. I have an idea. How about we outlaw criminals. You know, just make crime less accessible. Stricter laws and such.

When evolution is taught in schools, this doesn't help. People are taught, that there is no God, no truth, and no real reason to value life. They are taught that we are a cosmic accident, and not made in God's image. We are just advanced animals, etc. Do what you want. If it feels good, do it. Junk like that. Check out the information on the Colombine shooters. When he shot up the school he had a shirt about evolution, and they wrote about it. He asked that girl if she believed in God. And then shot her when she said, "Yes." The fault is not with a car, a weapon, a knife or a tool. It is with man and man alone.
 
asking someone to debate the merits of gun control after a situation like this is pointless. one side will use emotional appeals and the other will just look heartless. just express your sorrow and leave the politics for another time.
 
Eyez, some of your points are very interesting, but if we are to take them seriously, they need to be backed up by links. Personally, I'd be very interested to see the source of this 'fact':

Australia recently banned nearly all guns. What happened? Crime went up 400%! Literally
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So if you could let us know.....
 
When evolution is taught in schools, this doesn't help. People are taught, that there is no God, no truth, and no real reason to value life. They are taught that we are a cosmic accident, and not made in God's image. We are just advanced animals, etc. Do what you want. If it feels good, do it. Junk like that. Check out the information on the Colombine shooters. When he shot up the school he had a shirt about evolution, and they wrote about it. He asked that girl if she believed in God. And then shot her when she said, "Yes." The fault is not with a car, a weapon, a knife or a tool. It is with man and man alone.
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This is not a question about religion. I take these comments as - if everyone believes in god then no one will get shot. Why shouldnt evolution be taught in schools along with religion. Personally i dont believe in god, does this make me have no values in life.....certainly not. Just because i dont believe we were created by one man does not mean i believe we should be 'animals' and run riot.
The fact that these guys in Columbine used that fact that these people believed in God is their own issue. They were obviously disturbed in the first place.
I do however believe that it is up to the one man to make his own decisions. Whether created by god or an 'advanced animal' we have our own freewill.
 
Oh, here we go! Dr. Phil has blamed video games. :rolleyes:

I am sick and tired of this shit! If something happens, it's quick! Blame something to make us, as a society, feel better, and I am frankly uninterested as of late. It's a scapegoat, and those who use them are complete morons. See, it all boils down to this: the shooter had severe mental disabilities, and it wasn't because of a violent video game. I've played video games and I'm still in tact. Personal body count = 0. Deal with it. But next time it'll be because of Death Metal, or horror films, or something else, and I couldn't really care less anymore.

Let's not forget that two thousand years ago, before any of this existed, the world was a much more violent place.
 
Catalyst said:
The fact that these guys in Columbine used that fact that these people believed in God is their own issue. They were obviously disturbed in the first place. I do however believe that it is up to the one man to make his own decisions. Whether created by god or an 'advanced animal' we have our own freewill.
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Exactly. I also think we need to remember the flip side of this coin - the number of murders/deaths that result from actions taken in the name of some God or another.

mcilroga said:
Oh, here we go! Dr. Phil has blamed video games. :rolleyes:

I am sick and tired of this shit! If something happens, it's quick! Blame something to make us, as a society, feel better, and I am frankly uninterested as of late. It's a scapegoat, and those who use them are complete morons.
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I agree with you mcilroga, and having read many psychological studies on the issue, feel like telling Dr. Phil to stick it where the ratings don't shine. People argue that it's the chicken and the egg, but it's NOT. People who suffer from severe psychological disturbance may be more likely to play violent and aggressive videogames than other kinds of games, but so to does a large portion of psychologically adjusted members of society who do not subsequently perform homicides or other criminal activities. Some have even argued that these games may have a cathartic effect. I can find some articles if anyone is interested, but a lot are through my universty database so I'm unsure if I can link to them.

I also play video games regularly, usually quite violent ones. I don't know why I play them, I don't care to know. The point is that they do not encourage me to hurt anyone.
 
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