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Disturbing Trend in Education

Discussion in 'General Book Discussion' started by ColtSeavers, Jul 13, 2007.

  1. ColtSeavers

    ColtSeavers New Member

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    Oh thank you so much.You may be the greatest of all heroes The guy who corrects simple typos and makes a big deal out of them and gets a hard-on and sense of superiority. Where would the internet be without smug smartasses like yourself.
     
  2. ColtSeavers

    ColtSeavers New Member

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    Some Faggy Guy 75?
     
  3. SFG75

    SFG75 Well-Known Member

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    The irony isn't lost on anyone. You castigate the material that your niece has to read as the product of "uneducated"(your term, not mine) writers. Now if you are going to criticize the work of others as "uneducated," you shouldn't personify that very negative quality, that you so believe detracts from your niece's education.


    Keep taking it to the personal-the "facts" of the issue do not support your premise. On top of that, using homophobic remarks isn't something you should throw around so liberally. Name calling and neo-racist "political correctness" remarks don't prove your point. Other than Angelou, you have yet to produce the names of the other so-called inferior writers that you are so horrified by. Maya Angelou is an incredible writer and intellectual. Ditto Cornel West and bell hooks. If your niece has the privilege of reading them, then she is truly blessed with a great education. You claim to be black, tell me-what black writers do you believe your niece should read? Certainly there are writers out there that you believe are great examples for her to enjoy. So do tell-what black writers should your niece be reading? I'll be waiting for your answer.
     
  4. ColtSeavers

    ColtSeavers New Member

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    Hmmm...lets see Octavia Butler I would recommend great story teller of sci-fi.Langston Hughes was an exceptional poet. Of course there is Alex Haley. Now bell hooks(not her real name I dont believe) I have no respect for because frankly she comes across as a mammy and acts very uneducated for a supposedly intellectual woman.Off the top of my head thats about it. Oh yeah uncle Remus...hahaha.But as I have said before why separate authors or anyone by race.Does it make you feel better to say I like so and so black author. Its not just whites that are guilty of that sin either.Ask most blacks who their favorite of anything is and they will name a black person. Because they are conditioned to see color first. I blame this on Oprah and Angelou and Malcolm X and others who spouted black pride instead of just human pride. I grew up in Boston so any guess who my favorite basketball player was..thats right Larry Bird.
     
  5. SevenWritez

    SevenWritez New Member

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    Someone hand me my lightsaber (or is lightsabor? I'm not a SW fan)

    I've got work to do.
     
  6. SFG75

    SFG75 Well-Known Member

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    A multicultural curriculum is important as once again, it is about exposure to diverse ideas and talent. It guarantees that coverage of the accomplishments of black and other minority writers is adequately covered. The old Euro-centric curriculum didn't do much for the chances of Hughes or others to be read. Is it important?, does the old English works have a long history in America?, I can't argue with you on that. But to deny that other writers, non-Europeans ones especially, played a role is something we also can't deny.

    Is that due to conditioning or due to being exposed to what is around them? I guarantee you that every ethnic group does the same thing, for the most part. It's a natural tendency to go with the particular habits of your culture(i.e.-subculture)

    Langston Hughes wasn't about black pride?, his works were banned in schools because of their supposedly "controversial" nature. Howard Zinn was fired from a teaching job for utilizing it in a class once. Not exactly a great example for you to use, Hughes did write about injustice, which would subsequently get him labeled as being more for black "pride" than anything else in your book. The larger issue there is academic freedom, but the point still stands. And you're wrong about Malcolm X. Towards the end of his life, after the trip to Mecca, Malcolm X renounced the black "pride" belief in favor of an all more inclusive "human" one. While at Mecca, Malcolm X noticed a wide array of ethnic groups. He decided to leave and the NOI freaked out as he was very popular. Seriously, re-read the book, I promise it's in there. I'm quite surprised that you would butcher what he was truly about in the fashion that you did. Does Angelou not speak of the human condition in her books? The "caged bird" writing is very "human" in regards to emotion and feeling. Race is a lens of the human experience, and it is one that continues to be an experience, a very important one at that.

    From a different post:
    It is a myth that people who receive welfare are "lazy." As a matter of fact, the vast majority of them are employed. I don't believe the question is about race, as much as it is about economic justice and how profits are created off of the backs of those who work the longest and hardest in low-paying sectors of the economy. Call me naive, but I believe that everyone that works a 40 hour week can and should take home enough money to not be below the poverty line.
     
  7. jcsoblonde

    jcsoblonde kickbox

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    little late getting back to you seven, but I think it was in a harry potter thread lol but I understand if you've forgotten :p there is so much else to do
     
  8. ColtSeavers

    ColtSeavers New Member

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    Too bad about Malcolm X you are right he had reformed. Too bad he got shot in a drug deal gone bad. Did I say minorities were lazy? Or that they needed a job? I said do something real to help one if you want to really make a difference and not patronize.
     
  9. ColtSeavers

    ColtSeavers New Member

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    A job was only one example. How about spend time with an elderly person minority or otherwise does that offend anyone.Or am I gonna get a bunch of crap that studies say most elderly people dont want visitors...geeeshh
     
  10. Rien

    Rien New Member

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    Colt, darling, you offend my brain.

    Hmm. I realize that a lot of the thing that are running through my head have been mentioned time and time again, but...still. ^_^

    As a minority, while I understand that you obviously don't want to be singled out and stared at with all those little racisms dancing in people's heads, wouldn't you rather prefer for people to have some sort of an idea of what sorts of things have happened to your minority? Or do you not care? As a kid, I had no idea that there were people that weren't like me for a good while. I have always been an extremely introverted person and my neighbourhood was full of old white people. When I got to school and figured out there were lots of other races and beliefs than mine (around age six it dawned on me), I was a pretty racist. I felt that the people who didn't look like me weren't really as good. They didn't speak the same way (which I felt was "correctly"), they dressed differently, and their behaviour was rather different. They irked me. Reading is probably the only reason I ever really interacted with anyone else. I was a very big reader. I even won books and things in our little reading contests that the school held. And Cassie (y'know, from the Animorphs that Seven mentioned) led me to think that maybe they weren't all stupid and ignorant. Maybe--just maybe--I was. ^_^ (By the way, that's a lesson I keep learning. Yay for forcive humbling!)

    Besides: All views are valid. Any curriculum that is "-centric" is pretty much going to teach you only the one view. In high school, it has been my experience that we learn very little about Africa. Can you tell me much about the struggles of the Tutsis and Hutu, or how the Ibo's structure of living changed after the British invasion? Probably not; but you almost certainly can tell me quite a bit about America's Civil War. We rather neglect Asia, too. Most people don't really know all that much about China, or Tibet, and the most a lot of people know about Japan is what's sponged off of anime and how dare they have attacked Pearl Harbour?

    Basically, what I'm saying, and what I think most of us are trying to say, is shut the hell up and pay better attention. Your little world isn't all that there is, and you're being an egocentric little cretin to try to impress the same arrogant views on your niece.

    Oh, and by the way: What class is she taking?
     
  11. Fae

    Fae New Member

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    Holy cow. Now I remember why I try to stay away from this forum.:eek: This argument is stupid and useless; it's not going to go anywhere. Calling each other names, putting one another down...what's the freakin point?? Colt, you have to admit that when you started this thread, you expected a negative reaction. You're baiting people, just admit it. As for everyone else, you're all just as ignorant for rising to the bait...it's exactly what he wants. I joined this forum to talk about books, not to get into some stupid fight. This is not a friendly forum at all, and from now on I will try to limit my visits. Some of you have created an atmosphere that I'm really not enjoying. I'm all for freedom of speech and for stating your opinion (so don't attack me with that one), but I don't want to be around a bunch of children who just try to get a rise out of each other. :(
     
  12. SFG75

    SFG75 Well-Known Member

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    Malcolm X died in a drug deal?, he died giving a speech!. Now it is true that we don't know if the Nation of Islam was behind the killing, but it's comparable to when a mob associate "disappears." It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who was behind it!.:D No, he wasn't killed in a drug deal, nor was he involved in that at all. As a faithful Muslim, drugs and alcohol were a no-no. If he was a hypocrite about that kind of thing, it would be common knowledge. Your assertion is baseless and is pure net heresy. It amazes me what floats around the web these days as "truth." We'll have to agree to disagree I guess Colt.

    Rien- very well stated.:)

    Fae-Sorry that you feel that way. The exchange was limited to participants, no one else. Long term members here post in threads about books and do more than just participate in exchanges like this with trolls. If you hang around awhile, you'll see that. If it gets too out of hand or others are unnecessarily brought into it, then Stewart and Co. will take care of it. They've done that in the past, though I'd have to say that other than a few bumps, this exchange has been fairly above-board.
     
  13. abecedarian

    abecedarian Well-Known Member

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    A very good article Meg! I was not suprised to see the quote from Nancy Atwell, saying that unless there's an adult there to hand a kid another book, the kid tends to stop reading. I read her book In the Middle, a few years ago and liked her style of reading and writing alongside her students. While I understand Coltseaver's issues with the PC agenda in his niece's textbooks, I hesitate to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I would rather read the stories and be able to discuss them with my students. I don't know what his issues are with Ms Angelou, but since I will never be a black woman, I find myself curious to know about her life experiences..I had books I was made to read in school that I didn't like as well as others, but I find myself remembering them as I encounter various situations in my adult life, so I can't say it was a total loss to have read them. I do agree that children need to be encouraged to read widely. I would say, read the assignments AND King, or whoever strikes one's fancy. Coltseaver is doing the right thing to encourage his neice to read for the pure FUN of it. One thing I would add, we all read for various reasons. One of my reasons is to vicariously live someone else's life in a relatively safe manner. It's sort of like playing dress up or trying on clothes at Dillards(the ones I'd never actually wear in real life).
     
  14. steffee

    steffee Active Member

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    Yeah, now I remember why I stay away from this forum. Because unless it's a 'discussion' on why this book is "fantastic" and who "absolutely loves" whatever novel or author (which frankly, don't tell the rest of us much, do they?), when it's an actual 'real' discussion on what people do or don't enjoy and why, you'll always get one person who comes along and spoils it for everyone by complaining about it. I mean, how dare people here actually debate something for a change? :rolleyes:

    How so? It's a three-page discussion. Stewart, Mehastings and SFG (and others) have outlined their view, and Colt has outlined his. Albeit Colt appears ignorant and, frankly, stupid (I'm sure it's an act - how on earth can someone who uses words such as "indoctrinating", "preemptive", "socially oppressing" and "eloquently" yet not know how to add a space after a sentence, or how to use an apostrophe correctly, it baffles me), but at least it's an opinion.

    Well... exactly. Yet later, you refer to everyone in this thread as being "ignorant" and a "bunch of children".

    Of course he did, I doubt he'd deny it.

    This thread is, unless I'm mistaken, a discussion on books, and literature in general. I joined for that reason too, and find discussions such as this quite interesting. Mehastings, for one, has given us a link that highlights a lot of useful concerns, and which has prompted further discussion. SFG has provided - me, at least - with some things to think about, too.

    So why post in this thread? Why even read it?
     
  15. abecedarian

    abecedarian Well-Known Member

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    Steffee: I love you! At the first opportunity, mass quantities of chocolate will be consumed in your honor.
     
  16. steffee

    steffee Active Member

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    Oh well thanks, abc. I love you too.

    Can't I share the chocolate though. Go on, you know you want to share. ;)
     
  17. abecedarian

    abecedarian Well-Known Member

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    Of course I'll share, but then I think, "duh! She's in England..she's already GOT the good chocolate!"
     
  18. steffee

    steffee Active Member

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    Ah. Yeah, that's true. Okay then, I'll share my chocolate stash with you. :D
     
  19. abecedarian

    abecedarian Well-Known Member

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    Deal. Maybe if I hurry, I can stow away in my friend Kay's luggage..she's flying to England tomorrow..
     
  20. unKeMPt

    unKeMPt New Member

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    As a college student, I'm familiar with the kind of work to which your niece was "subjected." That's why I think it's important to note that these works were used as supplemental material to Dickens, Twain, Golding, Heller, Harper Lee, Homer, Hemingway, Vonnegut, Orwell, Tolkien, Arthur Miller, Sexton, and so on and so on.

    Okay, so there's some Anansi myths and Maya Angelou and -- God forbid -- one of them Eskimo tales. Surely you don't have a problem with multiculturalism as long as it's integrated into a larger, more traditional curriculum?
     

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