Disturbing Trend in Education

[nomadic myth]

Surely you don't have a problem with multiculturalism as long as it's integrated into a larger, more traditional curriculum?

I like this view.

..........


I think literature class should not become sociology class or PC Indoctrination 101, but there is nothing preventing multicultural work from being worth studying. Why would there be? If a book is intentionally designed to be multicultural, though, I'd rather pass on it for a genuine text. I can imagine there is good multicultural writing in addition to low quality stuff that is just strong-armed into classes in the name of liberalism.

I haven't been in high school or middle school for about 15 years, though, so I'm not sure what kind of stuff is showing up in classes. As far as university goes I think Chinua Achebe is just as rewarding to encounter as Daniel Defoe is. However, I think that too much time was spent in my university literature classes discussing women's rights and colonialism as opposed to looking at metaphor, structure and characterization. Kind of like reading Lolita to discuss the merits of perversion rather than the beautiful painting of a sick mind.

 

[Peronel]

Wow, you crawl under a rock for a few days and look what you miss. I've nothing to add that won't be a repetition of what others have said, however I would like to say that this thread is an example of why I joined TBF (or whatever we're calling it now) in the first place - debate (the intelligence of which may be debated itself) on important issues, which I find has been lacking around here lately. Not that I'm doing much to rectify the situation. If this forum ever turns into one where any kind of actual discussion is discouraged for being possibly offensive, I'll be the first to jump ship.

 

[silverseason]

I totally disagree with your assertion that children hate reading because of what they are forced to read in school. I love to read, and I hated most of the things I read in middle and high school.

I'm not a minority - except that I'm female and we are called a minority although in numbers we are a majority - but I am a reader. In junior high I was required to read Silas Marner and hated it. It put me off George Eliot for 20 years. Then I picked up The Mill on the Floss one day was completely hooked.

We are ready to read and understand and even enjoy different books at different ages. All of which makes the life of the middle-school and high-school English teacher very difficult. She/he may know what the kids need, but cannot know what each is ready for.

Reading almost anything is good if only to gain the skill. After you have the skill, where to go with it is often a personal decision. Still... that English teacher knows that many things you will read in your future life will not be easy or fun. And still... that English teacher also probably loves literature and wants to share.

 

[PhilW]

In junior high I was required to read Silas Marner and hated it.

May I ask why? And do you still hate it? I've read 'The Mill on the Floss' too, and although I enjoyed it, I enjoyed 'Silas Marner' more; it's one of my favourite books and I'm always curious to know why people who don't like it feel that way.

 

[silverseason]

May I ask why? And do you still hate it? I've read 'The Mill on the Floss' too, and although I enjoyed it, I enjoyed 'Silas Marner' more; it's one of my favourite books and I'm always curious to know why people who don't like it feel that way.

I'm fine with Silas Marner now, but at 13 or so I was not. It was partly the 19th century language which I was not accustomed to. I had read Dickens and he is the same period, but Dickens is less stately and more amusing. It was partly that the book was pushed as a "beautiful story" and I was looking for romance - what I thought at the time was the only beautiful story - but didn't find it. Finally, I detected a respect for parents and the wisdom of elders when I was rejecting all that. Now I am a parent and a grandparent, I really dig the wisdom of the elders.

All of which is to my point: any book may be rejected by any child at any time. It may not reflect badly on the book or the child - it's just a bad match. Which is why you need to have lots of books and lots of opportunities and keep trying.

 

[PhilW]

I'm fine with Silas Marner now, but at 13 or so I was not. It was partly the 19th century language which I was not accustomed to. I had read Dickens and he is the same period, but Dickens is less stately and more amusing. It was partly that the book was pushed as a "beautiful story" and I was looking for romance - what I thought at the time was the only beautiful story - but didn't find it. Finally, I detected a respect for parents and the wisdom of elders when I was rejecting all that. Now I am a parent and a grandparent, I really dig the wisdom of the elders.

All of which is to my point: any book may be rejected by any child at any time. It may not reflect badly on the book or the child - it's just a bad match. Which is why you need to have lots of books and lots of opportunities and keep trying.

I know what you mean - even as a native British English speaker, I struggled with some of the dialect writing in 'The Mill on the Floss' when I first tried to read it, many years ago. I found it much less of a problem with 'Silas Marner', but I'm not sure whether that's because there is less of it in that work, or because I was older/wiser/more used to it

I agree entirely with your comments about having lots of books/opportunities though. Read first - read pretty much anything; develop the appreciation of literature after.

 

[Mrs Pacino]

I read this thread with interest, as I'm an English teacher. I work with 11 - 16 year olds in a small rural school, predominately farming families and land workers.

We are forced, by the government and national curriculum to teach set texts each year and obviously it is difficult to find something from the given list that all the kids will enjoy - and to help them to do the best in their exams, only teach one text from the given list. Resourcing, planning, teaching, and getting coursework out of them for more than one text is just not possible within the school system as it is.

However, we also offer reading lessons as part of our department planning, and we research new novels and encourage our children to read, indeed, we start each english lesson with a 10 minute reading session and encourage the kids to choose their own books - we guide them if necessary - and generally find it to be successful. Our own enthusiasm for reading helps them to find something to read which they enjoy, and by the time they get to the set texts for the exams, they're usually pretty switched on, and often reading independently for pleasure. Obviously this is based on my own personal teaching experience, but I believe if the teachers can demonstrate a joy of reading, they will be able to pass it on to the students they are teaching. One girl told me reading was "boring" and I challenged her to try a book of my choice. She was hooked on it within about 5 minutes and asked if she could take it home to read. She's an avid reader now.

Finally, if an english teacher can't demonstrate enthusiasm for reading which encourages their students to read, then they are in the wrong job.

 

[PhilW]

Hallelujah! Some common sense. Now all we need to do is clone you and apply the same process in every other school

My son's English teacher was a bit taken aback (in a nice way) when I challenged one of the books that she was considering as a class reader. I and my wife had read/skimmed it and thought it rather unsuitable; it seemed very unsavoury, even for 13 year olds. His teacher said that hardly any parents take much interest in what their offspring are given to read, much less bother to read it themselves! She dropped that particular book, and even asked me to read another that she was planning on using and give her my thoughts about it - I may have opened a can of worms there! I certainly don't see myself as a literary critic or even a more general arbiter of taste, but it is nice to be 'in the loop'.

 

[PhilW]

oops - double posted there!

 

[abecedarian]

Hallelujah! Some common sense. Now all we need to do is clone you and apply the same process in every other school

My son's English teacher was a bit taken aback (in a nice way) when I challenged one of the books that she was considering as a class reader. I and my wife had read/skimmed it and thought it rather unsuitable; it seemed very unsavoury, even for 13 year olds. His teacher said that hardly any parents take much interest in what their offspring are given to read, much less bother to read it themselves! She dropped that particular book, and even asked me to read another that she was planning on using and give her my thoughts about it - I may have opened a can of worms there! I certainly don't see myself as a literary critic or even a more general arbiter of taste, but it is nice to be 'in the loop'.

If we had our kids in the public school, this is what I would do as well. It makes more sense to me to know about the books on the reading list, so if I DO have a problem with one, I can speak about it intelligently and rationally. If the teacher did not want to pull the book, at least I could monitor the situation and discuss it with my student, so they would know my thoughts on the book.

 

[Mrs Pacino]

Hallelujah! Some common sense. Now all we need to do is clone you and apply the same process in every other school

My son's English teacher was a bit taken aback (in a nice way) when I challenged one of the books that she was considering as a class reader. I and my wife had read/skimmed it and thought it rather unsuitable; it seemed very unsavoury, even for 13 year olds. His teacher said that hardly any parents take much interest in what their offspring are given to read, much less bother to read it themselves! She dropped that particular book, and even asked me to read another that she was planning on using and give her my thoughts about it - I may have opened a can of worms there! I certainly don't see myself as a literary critic or even a more general arbiter of taste, but it is nice to be 'in the loop'.

What was the book in question? It's great when parents take an interest. We've actually had parents complain that their children have brought books home saying things like "we don't have books in our house". No joke.

On the other end of the scale a 12 year old boy brought in the Viz Profanisaurus as his reading book. I immediately confiscated it and asked a member of the senior team to contact his parents. I was appalled that he had access to it. The parents then got all stroppy about it, and made a big fuss about it being removed from him! That's even more scary than the ones who are just too ignorant to appreciate what reading can do for their children.

 

[PhilW]

What was the book in question?

I knew you were going to ask that...it's an awful admission, but I can't remember! Suffice to say that the story involved a disfunctional teenager killing homeless people for 'kicks'. It may have had some deep philosophical message, but (a) we didn't think so and (b) a bunch of 13 year old boys was very unlikely to appreciate that finer point either. We have no objection to a bit of violence or gore - in a relevant context; they are studying 'Macbeth' for GCSE, but there's a point to the blood and gore there, and a point that is easily demonstrable to a group of adolescents. The alternative class reader that the teacher in question has chosen, 'Fleshmarket' is quite bloody and gory too, but again, it has a point to it. It's a great blend of history and fiction set in the Edinburgh of Burke & Hare.

We've actually had parents complain that their children have brought books home saying things like "we don't have books in our house". No joke.

I can quite believe it. I am sure there are thousands of households that do not even possess a good dictionary or encyclopedia.

 

[SFG75]

I knew you were going to ask that...it's an awful admission, but I can't remember! Suffice to say that the story involved a disfunctional teenager killing homeless people for 'kicks'. It may have had some deep philosophical message, but (a) we didn't think so and (b) a bunch of 13 year old boys was very unlikely to appreciate that finer point either. We have no objection to a bit of violence or gore - in a relevant context; they are studying 'Macbeth' for GCSE, but there's a point to the blood and gore there, and a point that is easily demonstrable to a group of adolescents. The alternative class reader that the teacher in question has chosen, 'Fleshmarket' is quite bloody and gory too, but again, it has a point to it. It's a great blend of history and fiction set in the Edinburgh of Burke & Hare.

I'm only a social studies, but having seen the books that middle school students read, I don't blame them for growing up hating to read. The book you describe seems inappropriate for them to read, not to mention that what regularly passes for a good curriculum is chic lit light schlump material that is boring to the male middle school student. Kudos to you for speaking up.

 

[abecedarian]

I can quite believe it. I am sure there are thousands of households that do not even possess a good dictionary or encyclopedia.

Let me tell you about my friend Mary. When her three kids were young, the tv went on (full volume) first thing in the morning, and didn't go off til late at night. As for their home library, there were several Bibles, a cookbook, and entire collection of Grace Livingston Hill romances, Janette Oke's Love Comes Softly series, and an incredibly ancient and dusty set of Funk and Wagnall's encyclopedias. That's it..Oh wait, I forgot their magazine subscriptions: The lastest TV Guide was always around somewhere. They did not use the public library, as Mary got tired of paying late fees. The oldest child was a reasonably smart student and made fairly good grades, but the the boys were quickly labeled ADD, and barely squeeked through school. I know the oldest son took the Non-reader's version of the KS Driver's License test, and can't remember about the younger boy. When the older boy was in 1st or 2nd grade, they needed ideas for a birthday present for another male classmate..when I suggested a book, this youngster got indignant and told me, "This is for a BOY! What would he want a book for?" As I glance over at my hubby's shelf of housebuilding books, I wondered where to start!

 

[beer good]

Non-reader's version of the KS Driver's License test

...

Wait. You're not saying people who by their own admission cannot read are allowed to get driver's licenses? I mean, street signs, and... forget street signs, traffic laws pretty much demand at least basic literacy, don't they?

- Oh, hello, officer.
- Evenin', son. You have any idea how fast you were goin'?
- Nope.
- Uh... OK, you have any idea what the speed limit is in this county?
- Nope. Can't read.
- Oh. OK. Well, that's alright then. Carry on.

 

[SFG75]

...

Wait. You're not saying people who by their own admission cannot read are allowed to get driver's licenses? I mean, street signs, and... forget street signs, traffic laws pretty much demand at least basic literacy, don't they?

- Oh, hello, officer.
- Evenin', son. You have any idea how fast you were goin'?
- Nope.
- Uh... OK, you have any idea what the speed limit is in this county?
- Nope. Can't read.
- Oh. OK. Well, that's alright then. Carry on.

LOL

*Drives on a road, approaching a sign.*

"hmmmm, what's that?....S.....uh....T........O....er..........aw heck, I'll just blow throw it."

 

[abecedarian]

LOL

*Drives on a road, approaching a sign.*

"hmmmm, what's that?....S.....uh....T........O....er..........aw heck, I'll just blow throw it."

I wish I were making this up! Thirty years ago, my cousin in Missouri teased me about where Kansans got their driver's permits..he theorized we stood in line at K-mart blue light specials

Sadly, his jokes were more prophetic than anyone could imagine. What's worse, we aren't the only state with non-reader's tests.

 

[PhilW]

As I glance over at my hubby's shelf of housebuilding books, I wondered where to start!

'Tim (the tool man) Taylor' eh? Watch out if he tries to modify your Insinkerator...

 

[abecedarian]

'Tim (the tool man) Taylor' eh? Watch out if he tries to modify your Insinkerator...

Erm, uh..well, he IS handy

My dh had never even held a power saw before he started building our first house. He read the best books he could find, asked tons of questions at various homesites, and dared to dream of building his own house, with his own hands. I'm writing this from house #2, and he's starting to feel the itch again..

 

[SFG75]

'Tim (the tool man) Taylor' eh? Watch out if he tries to modify your Insinkerator...

The urge for "more power' must be a male instinct. I have a 3.75 hp mower and believe you me, I'm always thinking of ways to tweak it for more output. I absolutely hate going over a patch that brings it to a halt. I'm not a gear head, but I'm still thinking.