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Greatest Americans

leckert

leckert

New Member
The Discovery Channel (I think) is doing (or has recently done) a series on "The Greatest American".

I think they started with a list of 100, and, by viewer votes, narrowed it by half each week, until they milked it down to like three or four, or something.

I was appalled to see that Oprah friggin' Winfrey was in the top 50.

TOP 50!!!

Now, call me insensitive and callous, but what the f*** has she done so friggin' amazing that she should be considered in the top 50 Greatest Americans of all time?

Okay, that's my opinion. Needed to vent for a moment.

Who do you think is the "Greatest American of All Time"? Or do you, like me, feel that the category is too broad? What about "Top 5"?


I think my top 5 would be:

George Washington
Lewis/Clark (I count them as one. And throw Saqagaweeah (sp?)in there, too)
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Henry Ford
Abner Doubleday (probably not the real inventor of baseball, but close enough!)
 
we had a similar series in canada in the fall. here's the link it was really well done, with the final 10 being represented by current canadian celebs. each person was given a one hour show to make their case. then there were 2 nights of debates with canada voting and eliminating the contenders. tommy douglas was the winner. he was the premier of saskatchewan, and then became the leader of the newly formed ndp. he is considered the father of medicare. i voted for terry fox though.
 
Mr. T??

Wow. When was that poll taken, 1978?

Amazing what passes for 'greatness', huh?

"I pity the fool that don't think I'm the greatest"

:)
 
Jeeze... From the BBC website:

"[Homer Simpson] received 47.17% of the vote beating former United States President Abraham Lincoln, who received 9.67% and civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jnr, with 8.54% of the vote. "

I mean, Homer is all that, and the proverbial "bag of chips", but to beat Lincoln by %37.5?

Jeeze...

I'm gonna check out the rest of that link. I am always interested in what the world thinks of us Americans.

Thanks for you insights Jenn, and Zolipara!
 
leckert said:
I am always interested in what the world thinks of us Americans.
Click to expand...

I think you'll find that as British humour voting. :D

With respect to the art thing, it reminds me of David Blaine's stunt of starving himself in a box in London. When you watch footage of the American public talking about it they say stuff like he's such a phenomenal artist while in Britain it was more fun to call him an attention seeking twat and then throw things at him in the hope of keeping him awake. Obviously he'll never do another stunt like that here - there's just not the same level of sycophancy. :)
 
leckert said:
Do Canadians tend to confuse "celebrity" with "greatness" the way we Americans do?
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It's not just these two nations. The Brits got David Beckham, an attention seeking mummy's boy, into their top 60. Nothing great about him.
 
Thomas Jefferson.

Abraham Lincoln.

Mark Twain.

Eleanor Roosevelt.

Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
leckert said:
The Discovery Channel (I think) is doing (or has recently done) a series on "The Greatest American".

I was appalled to see that Oprah friggin' Winfrey was in the top 50.

TOP 50!!!

Now, call me insensitive and callous, but what the f*** has she done so friggin' amazing that she should be considered in the top 50 Greatest Americans of all time?


Who do you think is the "Greatest American of All Time"? Or do you, like me, feel that the category is too broad? What about "Top 5"?


I think my top 5 would be:

George Washington
Lewis/Clark (I count them as one. And throw Saqagaweeah (sp?)in there, too)
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Henry Ford
Abner Doubleday (probably not the real inventor of baseball, but close enough!)
Click to expand...

leckert,

Did you know that Henry Ford was an open anti-Semite, published papers of his opinions frequently, and was a huge supporter of Adolf Hitler? That he did business with the Nazis right up until August 1942? That he was stingy and pigheaded as a corporate manager, which led the Ford Motor Co. dangerously close to failure?

Compared with Ford, Oprah fares pretty well. She's a self-made entrepreneur, a leading technology/media innovator, a major philanthropist who donates millions every year to support education, family health, and other issues, and she founded the world's largest book club, hugely boosting the print publishing business single-handedly. She's also pretty modest by all accounts, has integrity, and strives to be a decent role model. While I don't think she's any kind of saint, she's not a bad choice for the list.

Similarly, Bill Gates, whom I used to revile because of his anti-competition practices, has become one of the leading philanthropists worldwide, ever. His funding for medicine to Africa, for education-reform programs in innovative public schools, and his donating money and technology to public libraries and schools across the country are just some of the huge projects that make a difference to millions of people. My local library in my small town received 6 computers free from his Foundation.

Others I would consider great, in terms of the difference their lives made to others: Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Richard Feynmann, Jonas Salk, Thomas Edison, FDR (especially his WPA, social security, and the GI Bill of Rights, which sent veterans to college and let them buy houses with gov't suppport).
 
Thank you, Novella, I was wondering if I should mention Ford's anti-semitism. As it happens, Thomas Edison was Ford's mentor on the subject of Jews. He obsessively coached Ford for years on the Jewish threat. It is almost impossible to find an untainted hero.
 
Yes, you're right, Mari. So he's off my list on that count, but at least he had other redeeming contributions.

I don't think any of the people on this list are above reproach. Such lists are invidious anyway, IMO. There are extraordinary people all over whom we'll never hear of. Remember the cleaning lady who saved $150k and gave it to a scholarship fund?

What really ticks me off is applauding some actor like Tom Hanks or John Wayne who played a hero in a film. That inability to separate reality from fiction is so disheartening.
 
Alexander Graham Bell in a top ten Canadian list? :eek:

Were they struggling for a list of ten Canadians and thought they'd use a Scot because he lived in Canada for a while? :D
 
"greatest american" is one of those phrases that you can't really question or disagree with. the moment you start to question who exactly a "great american" is the immediate assumption is "what, you don't think america is great?" and as a result, nationalism spreads through the country and power structures are strengthened.
 
leckert said:
Do Canadians tend to confuse "celebrity" with "greatness" the way we Americans do?
Click to expand...


well no. the celeb advocats were authors, journalists, musicians, with the odd exception, brett the hitman hart, and there were 2 vj's who have moved on to more serious pursuits.

our top ten were:
sir frederick banting- discovered insulin
alexander graham bell-while not born in canada many of his discoveries were here. he caused some controversy as people felt it should be limited to canadians born in canada however, it could be said we are all immigrants
don cherry-he drives me crazy
tommy douglas- he won. father of medicare, grandad to kiefer sutherland
terry fox-21 year old cancer victim started the marathon of hope. ran almost 6000 km raising almost 25 million dollars before he died
wayne gretzky- uh hello who doesn't know this guy. he was blasted at the debate for heading south
sir john a- canada's first prime mininster
lester b pearson- prime minister, created the current canadian flag, creator of un peacekeeping force
david suzuki-scientist, author, environmentalist
pierre trudeau-canada's most famous, infamous and well loved pm
 
I had heard, but am not intimately aware, of Mr. Fords anti-semitism. My vote for him is based completely on his contributions to the automotive/industrial revolution, and the advent of the assembly line. I also know that he was one of the first employers to actively hire blacks to work in his factories. What his motivations were, I don't know, but I do know that this was during a time when integration was not popular.

And, as I hope you all can understand, my having him on my list certainly in now way reflects my political or cultural views.

I applaud Oprah's success, and think she has certainly worked hard, and must be very talented, smart, and creative to be able to get where she is. I do not deny her accomplishments, nor do I think they are small.

I do have a problem with considering Oprah modest, though, when she uses her national audience to give away cars, and money, etc... If you are going to be a hero do it because it needs to be done, and do it quietly. When you do such things in front of the world (like so many of Hollywood's elite) it seems as if you are saying "look how generous I am. Aren't I just the most generous person you know? I should get an award for being so generous..." which sickens me.

I personally despise Oprah, and have since she was just a talk-show host. I cannot explain it, and I do not intend to insult anyone, but I have always seen her as an arrogant, phony, sycophant. (ha! I used it! I used it!) She is one of those people in my life who, for no explicible reason, just pisses me off on sight. I think we all have people like this in our lives, and she just happens to be one in mine.

Obviously, this is all a subjective matter, and I'm not sure what bobbyburns means that questioning a "great american" leads to strentghening of the power structures, but I think that is why I posed the question. I had heard of this list, and was amazed at some of the names on it (Dr. Phil is another one who was in the top 100). I thought it would be interesting to gauge the opinion of a less random group of people. And, guess what. It has been!
 
novella said:
What really ticks me off is applauding some actor like Tom Hanks or John Wayne who played a hero in a film. That inability to separate reality from fiction is so disheartening.
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I'm right there with you on that one, Novella...

It's like Sigorne Weaver and some others that I can't think of right now, LOBBYING CONGRESS as if they were experts because they played a part in a FRIGGIN' MOVIE! I wish they would get over themselves.

I guess when you have time, and money, you need something to do.

I'm not a gorilla, but I play on on TV...
 
jenngorham said:
we had a similar series in canada in the fall. here's the link it was really well done, with the final 10 being represented by current canadian celebs. each person was given a one hour show to make their case. then there were 2 nights of debates with canada voting and eliminating the contenders. tommy douglas was the winner. he was the premier of saskatchewan, and then became the leader of the newly formed ndp. he is considered the father of medicare. i voted for terry fox though.
Click to expand...

That sounds like the same format as the BBC greatest Brition TV series from two or three years back:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/programmes/greatbritons.shtml

The Top Ten Great Britons (and their champions) were:

Winston Churchill - 456,498 votes (28.1%) - Mo Mowlam
Isambard Kingdom Brunel - 398,526 votes (24.6%) - Jeremy Clarkson
Diana, Princess of Wales - 225,584 votes (13.9%) - Rosie Boycott
Charles Darwin - 112,496 votes (6.9%) - Andrew Marr
William Shakespeare - 109,919 votes (6.8%) - Fiona Shaw
Isaac Newton - 84,628 votes (5.2%) - Tristram Hunt
Queen Elizabeth I - 71,928 votes (4.4%) - Michael Portillo
John Lennon - 68,445 votes (4.2%) - Alan Davies
Horatio Nelson - 49,171 votes (3%) - Lucy Moore
Oliver Cromwell - 45,053 (2.8%) votes - Richard Holmes

Isambard Kingdom Brunel BTW was a victorian engineer who built many of Britains railways, bridges, ships etc.. His presence so high on the pole was due to a concerted internet campaign by engineering students at British universities.

Lady Di's appearence at the expence of Michael Faraday, James Watt etc remains a mystery...
 
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